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tansofun
Sep 19, 2007, 5:55 PM
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I can't seem to find them anywhere. The anodized ones, I'd like a nice pretty red rack.
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anykineclimb
Sep 19, 2007, 6:00 PM
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no where. my partner has been waiting on a bunch for months. I think he has to wait till November, but they've pushed that date back a few times
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Carnage
Sep 19, 2007, 6:21 PM
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ive used the heliums and i agree they are bad ass. I didnt want to spend that much on them, so i went with the mad rocks instead. The biners are just as light and like half the price.
only drawbacks are that they are not notchless and the biner itself is smaller. I have large hands and i personally dont mind ( i almost prefer) the smaller biners.
even make em in a pretty red color for ya
http://www.madrockclimbing.com/...&category_id=253
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billcoe_
Sep 19, 2007, 6:29 PM
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The Heliums are a better product for many reasons. Interesting that Bentgate is totally out of stock and Mountain Gear only has the bright ones.
Only place I know where there's lots of them is my basement:-)
Sorry! How about emailing Wild Country?
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ja1484
Sep 19, 2007, 6:53 PM
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Anything made by DMM is tops. Most of the online shops have a stock of 'em. Look around.
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microbarn
Sep 19, 2007, 7:11 PM
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I love mine, and I haven't seen any red ones recently either.
Maybe if I bump the thread someone else will know though.
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tansofun
Sep 19, 2007, 9:32 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: Sorry! How about emailing Wild Country? |
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aja175
Sep 26, 2007, 9:25 PM
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Are the Kong helium biners much different?
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scotchie
Sep 26, 2007, 10:07 PM
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I heard a rumor that they are being discontinued. I certainly hope that isn't true! I have some and I love them, but I tried to add more to my rack recently, and I can't find them anywhere!
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microbarn
Sep 26, 2007, 10:59 PM
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aja175 wrote: Are the Kong helium biners much different?
Very different
Kong Heliums are bent gate biners
WC heliums are wire gate biners with hoods to protect the nose. They are the wiregate equivalent of notchless.
In my opinion, the WC heliums are also on the verge of being an ultralight, but most ultra lights push toward smaller dimensions. WC heliums are still very large compared to wire biners in general.
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aja175
Sep 26, 2007, 11:01 PM
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Would trango superflys be a good substitution?
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microbarn
Sep 26, 2007, 11:35 PM
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well, I can only speak for myself, but the DMM shields look like the closest immitation....though maybe the WC helium immitated the shield????
For me the hood over the notch is more important then the weight.
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aja175
Sep 26, 2007, 11:43 PM
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Any experience with the AustriAlpin Magic series? It doesn't have a hood over the notch, but it has a similar method of not catching on things.
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microbarn
Sep 27, 2007, 10:44 AM
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aja175 wrote: Any experience with the AustriAlpin Magic series? It doesn't have a hood over the notch, but it has a similar method of not catching on things.
I apologize. It seems my last post was not 100% clear. The weight between one wiregate and another wiregate is negligible to me. When I said weight wasn't an important influencing factor, I meant that once I am in the realm of wiregates I won't count grams.
I like wiregates because they are lighter on average and gate flutter is reduced. I like the connection point of the biner to be smooth, notchless, protected, etc to limit snagging on nuts or skinny slings.
This is why I am crazy about the WC heliums. They have everything.
Now, to answer your question. I googled 'AustriAlpin Magic'. I have no experience with them. This looks like a biner that is designed to compete with notchless biners. I didn't see any wiregates in the series, but maybe I missed something. I would dig this biner for my belay device, masterpoint locker, or racking nuts. I would not use it to replace my heliums. Currently my heliums form my trad draws and rack my nuts.
If I were to look ONLY at the biners you are posting in this thread, and I were to try and build a rack out of them. I would do something like the following:
rack trango superflies for all cams
rack tricams and nuts on the Magic series (non lockers)
Extra lockers, belay device locker, and masterpoint lockers would be the Magic Series
trad draws would be formed from trango superflies
For the record, my current rack is:
color coded neutrino wiregates for my cams (I really like the anodizing to match the cam. It helps on a full gear sling, and it is pretty.)
heliums on my tricams, nuts, and trad draws
a random gathering of lockers that I am slowly replacing with notchless or magic style protected tips.
Hopefully this gives you a good idea of my preferences. I am sure others on this site have different ways of doing things.
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aja175
Sep 27, 2007, 1:08 PM
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Thanks for the explanation!
I was referring to the notchless nose Aus. uses on the magic series. They do it on straight and bent gates, not sure about wiregates.
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billcoe_
Sep 27, 2007, 2:41 PM
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I totally agree with Micros comments on the Heliums. The gate is a bit stiffer than most, but in a fall, you can count on it to stay closed, and I don't notice this effect when clipping.
If I may be so bold as to offer this up as well, I believe that to fit in these days, it is deriguer that one must absolutely color coordinate the biners with your outfit.
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microbarn
Sep 27, 2007, 2:53 PM
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billcoe_ wrote: I totally agree with Micros comments on the Heliums. The gate is a bit stiffer than most, but in a fall, you can count on it to stay closed, and I don't notice this effect when clipping. If I may be so bold as to offer this up as well, I believe that to fit in these days, it is deriguer that one must absolutely color coordinate the biners with your outfit.
Did I imply otherwise?
Sometimes I make a mistake in packing for a weekend. Then I am stuck carrying only BD #4, 3, and .4 C4s all day since blue and grey are the only colors that match my outfit that day. 
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vegastradguy
Sep 27, 2007, 4:44 PM
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microbarn wrote: well, I can only speak for myself, but the DMM shields look like the closest immitation....though maybe the WC helium immitated the shield???? For me the hood over the notch is more important then the weight.
the shield imitated the Helium, the helium was released a year beforehand. but, since DMM and WC are the same company....its sort of a moot point.
also, the Helium weighs 33g- that qualifies as ultralight imho, and considering its full-size...it beats the competition in every way as far as i'm concerned.
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simon_dmm
Sep 27, 2007, 8:10 PM
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In reply to: the shield imitated the Helium, the helium was released a year beforehand. but, since DMM and WC are the same company....its sort of a moot point. I should just clarify a couple of points: 1. The DMM Wirelock was the original clean nose wire biner and this came out before the WC Helium. The Helium used this idea and the I-beam concept that was developed by DMM for the Revolver and combined them to good effect. The Shield is the second generation Wirelock - lighter, I-beam construction, slimmer nose and smaller twist in the wire gate. The patent issue is interesting and it could be successfully argued that the Helium uses patented features of the Wirelock/Shield 2. DMM and WC are very much separate companies that used to work closely together, but are now increasingly distant. The only official connection between the two companies is that 3 people hold shares in both companies and one person is a director of both companies. DMM make the Helium for WC, but this is the only carabiner that we make for them. They have transferred all their other carabiner production offshore. DMM still make Technical Friends, Zeros, Rockcentrics and the anodised Rocks for WC. Regards Simon Marsh DMM
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docjacen
Sep 27, 2007, 10:01 PM
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oooh how interesting! I love both company's products, does DMM still make all their stuff in Wales?
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vegastradguy
Sep 27, 2007, 10:34 PM
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i stand corrected- thanks Simon!
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ja1484
Sep 27, 2007, 10:50 PM
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docjacen wrote: oooh how interesting! I love both company's products, does DMM still make all their stuff in Wales?
I don't work there, but I can cover this one: Yes they do.
DMM is very up front and, I would bet, proud of the fact that all their production is done from start to finish in-house in Wales with amazing quality control and design.
I'm a complete DMM whore, but it's for good reason - All of the products they make are at the top end of pure quality - they use the best alloys, the best QC, and even the best forging methods (hot forged > cold forged by far, if you're a details guys like me). When you use their hardware, you just know you're using something made *good*, much like with Metolius.
I love it whenever I pick up some new DMM 'biners with that bold "hot forged in Wales" on the tag. Made damn well in the birthplace of clean climbing hardware. It costs more to buy DMM hardware here in the states over, say, BD or Omega, but I gladly pay for the difference because I notice it when I use the goods.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on Sep 27, 2007, 10:51 PM)
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billcoe_
Sep 27, 2007, 11:50 PM
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simon_dmm wrote: 2. DMM and WC are very much separate companies that used to work closely together, but are now increasingly distant. The only official connection between the two companies is that 3 people hold shares in both companies and one person is a director of both companies. DMM make the Helium for WC, but this is the only carabiner that we make for them. They have transferred all their other carabiner production offshore. ..........
Simon, can you speak to the dearth of Red Heliums available? Did WC stop ordering them or are you just behind?
Regards:
Bill
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