|
konakissa
Sep 13, 2007, 1:07 PM
Post #1 of 19
(2496 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2007
Posts: 11
|
I got my first competition this coming wednesday which is six days away. My body deals with three hard days a week so I was wondering how many consecutive rest days prior to the competition is optimal.
Regards,
Sam
|
|
|
|
|
campo
Sep 13, 2007, 3:50 PM
Post #2 of 19
(2478 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 19, 2004
Posts: 212
|
I believe that in 72 hours you can fully recover from most any workout...
The above information is out of Training for Climbing, By Eric Horst.
Though, a lot of the information in his book has proven not so great, so, take it with a grain of salt.
|
|
|
|
|
EPiCJAMES
Sep 13, 2007, 5:23 PM
Post #3 of 19
(2455 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2007
Posts: 391
|
i would say a good 3-4 days. lots of rest, hydration, STRETCHiNG, and good light clean food. good luck man, let us know how it went.
|
|
|
|
|
overlord
Sep 13, 2007, 5:24 PM
Post #4 of 19
(2454 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120
|
id suggest 2-3 days, depending on how fast you recover. more than 3 days is pretty useless imho, less than 2 might mean you are not fully recovered (of course it depends on what kind of training you did on the day before the rest, if it was endurance, you might recover, but definitely not from serious power-endurance or strength training).
|
|
|
|
|
kevinheiss
Sep 14, 2007, 5:55 PM
Post #5 of 19
(2401 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 272
|
I woudl take 3 days off, that way you are sure you are fully recovered and able to give it your all.
|
|
|
|
|
Myxomatosis
Sep 14, 2007, 11:04 PM
Post #6 of 19
(2373 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 1063
|
I just entered a bouldering competition last night... My lead up involved
Monday: Alot of endurance training while bouldering (bouldering easy holds but staying on for 10-15minutes) Did about six rep's of that
Tuesday: Rest
Wednesday: Light duties, I lead x5 easy 5.10's with a bit of bouldering at the end
Thursday: Rest
Friday: Competition
I felt pretty good, I tried to get in alot of sleep (going to be at 9pm). My body didn't have any pain's or sore points 
Good luck and go hard
|
|
|
|
|
ghisino
Sep 15, 2007, 1:38 AM
Post #7 of 19
(2363 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 249
|
the absolute best would be resting 3-4 days.
but the day right before the comp (12-24 hrs) do a short training session...warm up well then a little bouldering.
should be intense but very limited volume and with a lot of resting time...pick up two or three short problems you can barely do on the wall and make a couple tries, resting at least 5 mins after each try.
when you've done about 30 hard moves (there's no exact number really, they could be 20 or 40, it's rather about how you feel), you're ready to warm down, stretch and go home.
You shoudn't feel pumped or tired at all, you should stop exactly when you're starting to recruit all your power and you're ready to try something harder than usual. If you're getting pumped on a hold, jump off immediately and rest.
should be the same feeling of going out on real rock, warming up, brushing your project, trying out the single moves a couple of times, and going home just before starting the "real" attempts.
If you don't know, it's better to do 5 moves less then 5 more than necessary.
I don't know exactly how or why this works, but it really does, the next day you will feel really powerful!
ps if someone knows muscle and/or neurotransmission science, can he/her explain me what's behind this?
|
|
|
|
|
bent_gate
Sep 15, 2007, 2:05 AM
Post #8 of 19
(2356 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2004
Posts: 2620
|
And most of all: Every boxer knows - No Sex one week before a match. 
You don't want to drain your Chi.
|
|
|
|
|
ghisino
Sep 15, 2007, 11:50 AM
Post #9 of 19
(2310 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 249
|
bent_gate wrote: And most of all: Every boxer knows - No Sex one week before a match. [image]http://www.blueblood.net/boards/images/smilies2/fight2.gif[/image] You don't want to drain your Chi.
lol!!!
|
|
|
|
|
catbird_seat
Sep 17, 2007, 5:12 AM
Post #10 of 19
(2246 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 7, 2004
Posts: 425
|
bent_gate wrote: And most of all: Every boxer knows - No Sex one week before a match. [image]http://www.blueblood.net/boards/images/smilies2/fight2.gif[/image] You don't want to drain your Chi.
|
|
|
|
|
bent_gate
Sep 17, 2007, 6:42 PM
Post #11 of 19
(2218 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2004
Posts: 2620
|
Hey, I'm telling you man, it's for a good reason... You've got to go in there with the Eye of the Tiger if you really want to take on Johnny and the boys of Cobra Kai...
|
|
|
|
|
EPiCJAMES
Sep 19, 2007, 11:40 PM
Post #12 of 19
(2154 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2007
Posts: 391
|
so, how did the comp go man?
|
|
|
|
|
konakissa
Sep 20, 2007, 8:46 AM
Post #13 of 19
(2131 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2007
Posts: 11
|
I ended up doing an hour boulder session on monday with lots of warming up, down and stretching. Then just did some light activity and more stretching on tuesday. On wednesday I was feeling in good form and I won. So that worked out well. Cheers for the advice people. I am interested about the post which suggested doing a short but powerful session the day before. Can anyone explain why this would work?
|
|
|
|
|
athletikspesifik
Sep 20, 2007, 2:12 PM
Post #14 of 19
(2083 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2005
Posts: 50
|
Short on time (I'll try to explain later), but, essentially you are up-regulating your nervous system without muscular fatigue carryover (this depends on your training history, climbing history, age, sex etc). I generally agree with the prep, without the 3-4 day layoff. Was the comp bouldering only? Or did you have some sport action too?
Dave Wahl
|
|
|
|
|
EPiCJAMES
Sep 20, 2007, 4:54 PM
Post #15 of 19
(2070 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2007
Posts: 391
|
konakissa wrote: I ended up doing an hour boulder session on monday with lots of warming up, down and stretching. Then just did some light activity and more stretching on tuesday. On wednesday I was feeling in good form and I won. So that worked out well. Cheers for the advice people. I am interested about the post which suggested doing a short but powerful session the day before. Can anyone explain why this would work?
good to hear man. that's good you climbed the day before. when i take a few days off, i always feel a little rusty.
|
|
|
|
|
athletikspesifik
Sep 20, 2007, 8:03 PM
Post #16 of 19
(2044 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2005
Posts: 50
|
As I said previously, I generally agree with ghisino's pre-comp plan...with the exception of taking that many days off - it depends on the competitor.
Essentially what happens (large volumes have been written on the subject in relation to athletic potential/other sports) is, the athlete is activating Phasic (high action potential) muscles prior to competition. This is important; the athlete is going to make attempts in movement at the limit of their ability requiring Phasic musculature. Tonic muscles are generally low threshold, fatigue resistant muscles (think posture). Difficult movement also increases motor unit (neuron-muscle) activation, force production, coherence and synchronicity among all the climbing-specific muscles important for high level performance.
So, in this scenario, the comp climber has neurologically activated most of the prime moving muscles important for competition by climbing at a high intensity level without fatiguing those muscles - because of the short volume and low time spent climbing. Traversing at low intensity, or doing multiple sub-max sport climbs close to comp time are in direct opposition to high motor unit activation and result in fatigue.
Dave Wahl
|
|
|
|
|
ghisino
Sep 20, 2007, 8:58 PM
Post #17 of 19
(2025 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 249
|
athletikspesifik wrote: As I said previously, I generally agree with ghisino's pre-comp plan...with the exception of taking that many days off - it depends on the competitor. Essentially what happens (large volumes have been written on the subject in relation to athletic potential/other sports) is, the athlete is activating Phasic (high action potential) muscles prior to competition. This is important; the athlete is going to make attempts in movement at the limit of their ability requiring Phasic musculature. Tonic muscles are generally low threshold, fatigue resistant muscles (think posture). Difficult movement also increases motor unit (neuron-muscle) activation, force production, coherence and synchronicity among all the climbing-specific muscles important for high level performance. So, in this scenario, the comp climber has neurologically activated most of the prime moving muscles important for competition by climbing at a high intensity level without fatiguing those muscles - because of the short volume and low time spent climbing. Traversing at low intensity, or doing multiple sub-max sport climbs close to comp time are in direct opposition to high motor unit activation and result in fatigue. Dave Wahl
thanks a lot!
If I can ask something more.
I did 3 weeks in céuse climbing, on an average, 3 days in a row and then resting 1. My best days were always the second ones after the rest day.
But for sure the day before I was getting pumped, even if I would never climb so much (really, 2 warm-ups, 2 or 3 hard onsight/redpoint attempts and one warm-down. And we know céuse IS endurance and lactic acid...).
I also noticed that my form increased constantly throughout the trip, and I actually did my best redpoint and onsight performances ever on my two last days.
Expecially my endurance got to crazy levels, the last days I was onsighting stuff just at my established OS limit and wouldn't get pumped at all...
What I wonder is : is that only because of specific technical adaptation to the style of the crag/losing weight from hiking 2hrs everyday and skipping lunch or might it be that my body actually reacts well to that kind of "a little bit everyday" workout?
The main reason for my question is that the indoor training season approaches and I want to make some planning...
|
|
|
|
|
athletikspesifik
Sep 21, 2007, 3:57 AM
Post #18 of 19
(1995 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2005
Posts: 50
|
[What I wonder is : is that only because of specific technical adaptation to the style of the crag/losing weight from hiking 2hrs everyday and skipping lunch or might it be that my body actually reacts well to that kind of "a little bit everyday" workout?]
3 weeks is a pretty short time to make such a drastic improvement in grades, but if it was done at the same crag, then I think your assumption is correct - that you have adapted to the psycho/physical/technical aspect to the area. But, 3 weeks is a good amount of time to increase buffering capacity in your forearm muscles. Buffering capacity (the ability of the local musculature to buffer local build-up in acidity) is one important aspect to developing endurance for route climbing, training for the physical tolerance of the increase in local muscular acidity about the forearms and possibly the other pulling muscles along the chain (bicep, deltoid, latissimus...). pH refers to the level of acid/base accumulation within the blood. People have a normal level that lies just above 7.0, (7.0 is neutral on the acid/base scale, with 0 being very acidic and 14 being highly basic). 6.8 is a level that is considered low or "acidic" and 7.5 is high or "basic". Training correctly, an athlete can develop a tolerance for the increase in acidity by producing "buffers". In a chemistry lab, adding an acid/base conjugate pair (such as acetic acid and acetate ions), resist the change in pH solution...or, as in chemistry it is called "buffering". So, buffering slows the increase in local muscular acidity. Buffering capacity, in an anaerobic sport...such as ours, is secondary to Maximal Voluntary Contraction (MVC).
Grip strength, in terms of MVC and endurance are related. When a climber is at a section requiring a high "relative" grip strength - this starts a process called "Intramuscular Pressure" or IMP (your perception of the situation can cause over-gripping). IMP causes the occlusion of arterial vessels inhibiting O2 to muscular tissues, reducing your grip strength. This condition is dependent upon your maximal voluntary contraction (MVC); occlusion is very slow when the hold is less than 30% MVC, starts to rise steadily at 50% and is very fast when you reach 70% or above. When arterial occlusion is at 50% or above, muscles start to work off of anaerobic/phosphagen systems of energy production. This means, of course, that your time on the route is drawing to a close.
I'm not sure if you lost water, fat or lean weight - so it would be hard for me to throw out a guess with respect to that. On a climbing day, I wouldn't skip a meal. Maybe graze more often than eating bigger meals. If you are climbing multiple days in a row, glycogen storage is important. So, maintaining fuel sources is key.
I am an advocate of climbing at high intensity for your skill level more often, and holding off on fatigue, in general - throughout the year. I believe that a climber needs a few anaerobic strength endurance phases in the year where you would climb to multiple fatigue states, but have a rest day that follows (check Andy Raether's schedule in a recent Climbing article).
Dave Wahl
Kimura, N. et al Contribution of Intramuscular Oxidative Metabolism to total ATP Production during Forearm Isometric Exercise at Varying Intensities. Tohoku J. Exp. Med., 208(4), 307-320. 2006
(This post was edited by athletikspesifik on Sep 21, 2007, 1:13 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
ghisino
Sep 21, 2007, 8:32 AM
Post #19 of 19
(1974 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 249
|
In reply to: I'm not sure if you lost water, fat or lean weight - so it would be hard for me to throw out a guess with respect to that. On a climbing day, I wouldn't skip a meal. Maybe graze more often than eating bigger meals. If you are climbing multiple days in a row, glycogen storage is important. So, maintaining fuel sources is key.
btw
I was having a very consistent breakfast that went on and off from 10 am to 12 (coffee, cookies or other kind of sweet stuff, then salads, vegetables, cheese, bread, maybe some dinner leftovers).
I was usually bringing to the crag plenty of water and two peaches.
As I hiked back at sunset, I was always feeling hungry as ever, and I had a "regular" dinner.
I didn't measure my weight during the trip but I can assume I've lost a couple of kilograms.
thank you for the rest!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
