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swylie
Oct 11, 2007, 5:49 PM
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Is it necessarily bad to have one type of chock, like say all cams, or all nuts, hexes? Why or why not?
Also what is the most versatile size in a cam, hex, or nut?
I'm starting to build a rack, and as expensive as it may be, if I just had all cams in my rack would that be a bad thing? I haven't used any protection yet or done any multipitch climbs, but plan to in the future. I've just climbed sport routes.
(This post was edited by swylie on Oct 11, 2007, 5:56 PM)
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coach_kyle
Oct 11, 2007, 5:58 PM
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Variety is good. I would suggest a set of stoppers in addition to cams, as a whole set only costs as much as 2 cams. That should be good to start with. These two are the easiest types of pro to set.
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wanderlustmd
Oct 11, 2007, 6:28 PM
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Find someone to follow as a second, cleaning their gear. This will teach you a lot. In addition, read everything you can beg, borrow and steal on the subject. John Long's series of rock climbing instructional books are excellent.
In terms of what to get...there have been many threads on this. It depends on where you climb, the characteristics of the routes, etc. Start climbing with people as a second and you will learn intuitively just by being immersed in it.
(This post was edited by wanderlustmd on Oct 11, 2007, 6:28 PM)
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swylie
Oct 11, 2007, 11:52 PM
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So, which are better to have as far as versatility, nuts or hexes? Or should you have both in your rack?
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drfelatio
Oct 12, 2007, 12:20 AM
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You should have both cams and nuts on your rack as they protect different types of cracks. Nuts are useless in parallel-sided cracks whereas cams are bomber. If you have a nice constriction, however, a bomber nut placement will hold falls all day long.
Sounds like you need to learn WAYYYY more before you go buying a rack and leading trad. Read up and do your homework. I'd hate for you to go out and hurt/kill yourself.
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salamanizer
Oct 12, 2007, 1:21 AM
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Hexes are out dated slow and cumbersome.
You need a set of stoppers though as they are 1/2 your rack.
As for what other gear you need or will want. When you actually need it, you'll know what it is you want.
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tansofun
Oct 12, 2007, 4:10 AM
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swylie wrote: So, which are better to have as far as versatility, nuts or hexes? Or should you have both in your rack?
I built my JT rack using a friends advice and its served well so far.
a set of nuts, bd cams .5-3 (double in 1 and 2), 3 runners turned into trad quick draws, a couple double length ones carried over the shoulder, and a few loose biners.
We bought some hexes for bail gear, but haven't used them yet.
Hope this helps, and if anybody else has any critiques on mine, lemme know.
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hosh
Oct 12, 2007, 4:54 AM
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Nuts, Cams, Tri-cams and sometimes even hexes all have their place. I know that hexes have fallen out of vogue, but they still serve a purpose on some routes and in some areas. If you have the patience to learn to use them, it'll pay off eventually. The questions is, will you be willing to drag them around until it pays off? It's usually easier to place a cam or a nut... But tri-cams, they shouldn't be overlooked on a rack, as they (especially the pink) go places that cams and nuts just won't. Worth having at least a few tri-cams on the rack, especially pink through brown.
hosh.
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flint
Oct 12, 2007, 5:25 AM
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MMMMMMM ..... Pink Tri-cams .....
But seriously, lets not count the hexes out just yet, I would still prefer 20 wips onto my hexes over my cams.
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tansofun
Oct 12, 2007, 5:44 AM
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hosh wrote: Nuts, Cams, Tri-cams and sometimes even hexes all have their place. I know that hexes have fallen out of vogue, but they still serve a purpose on some routes and in some areas. If you have the patience to learn to use them, it'll pay off eventually. The questions is, will you be willing to drag them around until it pays off? It's usually easier to place a cam or a nut... But tri-cams, they shouldn't be overlooked on a rack, as they (especially the pink) go places that cams and nuts just won't. Worth having at least a few tri-cams on the rack, especially pink through brown. hosh.
Haven't used the brown one yet, but have placed the other two
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king_rat
Oct 12, 2007, 12:54 PM
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swylie wrote: Is it necessarily bad to have one type of chock, like say all cams, or all nuts, hexes? Why or why not? I'm starting to build a rack, and as expensive as it may be, if I just had all cams in my rack would that be a bad thing? I haven't used any protection yet or done any multipitch climbs, but plan to in the future. I've just climbed sport routes.
To use a metaphor your question is a bit like asking "do I need a screw driver or a spanner to fix my car" the answer is you need the right tools for the job at hand.
Cams and nuts work differently and protect different kinds of features, unless you know before hand that you are only going to be climbing parallel cracks, then its worth having a verity of protection. Nuts are also very light and cheap, so in my eyes always worth carrying.
You have also asked about hexes, hexes have largely been replaced by cams which are quicker and easer to place. However hexes still have some advantages, they are much cheaper then cams, so if money is a real issue then hexes are an option that you could consider. While they take longer to place, a good hex placement is very reassuring. Having said I only us hexes now for setting up top ropes.
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j_ung
Oct 12, 2007, 3:02 PM
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king_rat wrote: swylie wrote: Is it necessarily bad to have one type of chock, like say all cams, or all nuts, hexes? Why or why not? To use a metaphor your question is a bit like asking "do I need a screw driver or a spanner to fix my car" the answer is you need the right tools for the job at hand.
I'm not sure I've ever seen this explained so well with so few words. Trophy for you, sir.
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cameltoe
Oct 12, 2007, 3:45 PM
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Okay, my 0.02$
A few people ave said 'hexes replace cams' or 'hexes are largely redundant' ...
I'd just like to say that as an old schooler this is utter rubbish, cams and hexes do diffrerent things, sorry but it's true, if you examine the mechanics of the two they are very different, experientially they are good in different places on different routes - I too enjoyed the analgoy about the right tool for the right job. Your rack will depend on your route, i have followed 10's where a cam won't do and a hex will (before anyone drops the - you're not climbing hard enough line). I know people who have done 11's and needed a hex as a cam won't do...and vice versa.. Indeed there are placements which will take either..
Put in math speak just because the sets have an intersection it does not make them equal.
FYI, for beginners, my motto is:
It is harder to place passive gear, but it is just as hard to place active gear well.
lhfct
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the_climber
Oct 12, 2007, 4:24 PM
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salamanizer wrote: Hexes are out dated slow and cumbersome.
Saying that is like saying tricams, offset nuts, and micro nuts have no value. The value of hexes is largely determined by rock type and quality.
Out dated gear would inclued Titons, Acorns, Tube Chocks, and Camlocks.
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the_climber
Oct 12, 2007, 4:28 PM
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tansofun wrote: hosh wrote: Nuts, Cams, Tri-cams and sometimes even hexes all have their place. I know that hexes have fallen out of vogue, but they still serve a purpose on some routes and in some areas. If you have the patience to learn to use them, it'll pay off eventually. The questions is, will you be willing to drag them around until it pays off? It's usually easier to place a cam or a nut... But tri-cams, they shouldn't be overlooked on a rack, as they (especially the pink) go places that cams and nuts just won't. Worth having at least a few tri-cams on the rack, especially pink through brown. hosh. How could I forget, I have 2 pinks, a red and brown. Haven't used the brown one yet, but have placed the other two
My Trican set up includes,
Blue 2.0
Brown 1.5
Red 1.0
New Pink ~0.7 compaired to the Old Pink (the new mould for the pink ticam is larger than the old one)
Old Pink 0.5
Filed down Old Pink ~0.3 compaired to the Old Pink
They will privide pro in smaller pods and pockets than any TCU, Microcam, or Alien will. They do not however handle parallel cracks in the same way as a cam.
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the_climber
Oct 12, 2007, 4:30 PM
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j_ung wrote: king_rat wrote: swylie wrote: Is it necessarily bad to have one type of chock, like say all cams, or all nuts, hexes? Why or why not? To use a metaphor your question is a bit like asking "do I need a screw driver or a spanner to fix my car" the answer is you need the right tools for the job at hand. I'm not sure I've ever seen this explained so well with so few words. Trophy for you, sir.
king_rat, that deserves a Double Trophy
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atpeaceinbozeman
Oct 12, 2007, 4:41 PM
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the_climber wrote: Out dated gear would inclued Titons, Acorns, Tube Chocks, and Camlocks.
I actually picked up some titons recently that came along with a pin rack(too cheap to pass up) and did a bit of searching...sounds like some people still use them >>>some interesting discussion about Titons, and other older gear here....
http://www.supertopo.com/...html?topic_id=279014
Cheers
Tom
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reno
Oct 12, 2007, 4:42 PM
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swylie wrote: Is it necessarily bad to have one type of chock, like say all cams, or all nuts, hexes? Why or why not?
When the only tool you own is a hammer, everything begins to look like a nail.
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the_climber
Oct 12, 2007, 4:55 PM
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atpeaceinbozeman wrote: the_climber wrote: Out dated gear would inclued Titons, Acorns, Tube Chocks, and Camlocks. I actually picked up some titons recently that came along with a pin rack(too cheap to pass up) and did a bit of searching...sounds like some people still use them >>>some interesting discussion about Titons, and other older gear here.... http://www.supertopo.com/...html?topic_id=279014 Cheers Tom
I'd buy them for historic value for sure, in fact I almost bought a full set last year for that purpose, but the guy wanted way to much for them. And yes some people are still using them, but they seem to have a limited range and either fit or don't. That's not saying they don't work, 'cause they do... if placed right
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swylie
Oct 12, 2007, 6:47 PM
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tansofun wrote: swylie wrote: So, which are better to have as far as versatility, nuts or hexes? Or should you have both in your rack? I see you live in Orange, which means you'll be hitting JT a lot? I built my JT rack using a friends advice and its served well so far. a set of nuts, bd cams .5-3 (double in 1 and 2), 3 runners turned into trad quick draws, a couple double length ones carried over the shoulder, and a few loose biners. We bought some hexes for bail gear, but haven't used them yet.
Hexes as bail gear? Not as valued as the pink tricam eh?
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marmalade
Oct 12, 2007, 10:51 PM
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I do not like all the noise that hexes make. We call them cowbells around here.
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bent_gate
Oct 12, 2007, 11:05 PM
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marmalade wrote: I do not like all the noise that hexes make. We call them cowbells around here.
And you can always use more cowbell....
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bent_gate
Oct 12, 2007, 11:07 PM
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It really does depend on which area you climb most. No one chock works equally as well in all areas.
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shockabuku
Oct 12, 2007, 11:09 PM
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the_climber wrote: salamanizer wrote: Hexes are out dated slow and cumbersome. Saying that is like saying tricams, offset nuts, and micro nuts have no value. The value of hexes is largely determined by rock type and quality. Out dated gear would inclued Titons, Acorns, Tube Chocks, and Camlocks.
Damn. Anyone want to buy some Titons or Camlocks?
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ja1484
Oct 12, 2007, 11:37 PM
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I commonly use nuts, cams, hexes, and tricams, and of course there's always the odd natural protection feature.
I recommend scoping out your climb ahead of time and determining what type of gear might be the most useful. Crack climbing in granite? Cams, hexes, and nuts. Dueling with some Carolina or Gunks quartzite? Bring tricams for the horizontals. Splitters at the Creek? If it doesn't have lobes, leave it in the car.
It's really relative. Seek some crusty old trad climbers in your area and get their recommendations, not ours, but for what it's worth a basic rack consisting of the following will get you up most climbs relatively safely:
1x set of cams (four cam units)
1x set small/micro cams (TCUs, BD C3s, etc.)
1x set of nuts
Appropriate slings, draws, and extra locking/nonlocking biners.
One last piece of advice: One of the most important pieces of gear on a trad climber's rack is judgement. Trad pieces aren't bolts, and there are times when you do *not* want to fall. Knowing when to back off is paramount. As Ed Viesturs says: "Getting to the top is optional. Getting back down is mandatory."
The rock will be there for another try later. Don't get in over your head and get yourself hurt. Take it slow to start.
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