|
jakomait
Oct 22, 2007, 6:47 PM
Post #1 of 27
(11195 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 24
|
I was leading a climb on saturday, fell and flipped upside down. I stayed inverted dangling on the rope in mid air till i figured out which way was up and flipped myself upright. Is it normal to be suck inverted or should a harnes automatically 'self right'?
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Oct 22, 2007, 6:52 PM
Post #2 of 27
(11186 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
Did you have the rope behind your leg while you were leading? That would flip you upside down. Were you tied in properly or did you have your eight through a locker on your belay loop? These are the only cases where you might flip upside down, which is not a normal part of climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
jakomait
Oct 22, 2007, 7:05 PM
Post #3 of 27
(11164 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 24
|
I was climbing a big roof and was pretty much horizontal when I fell. My last bolt was 3' below me, my feet were reaching way out in front of me on a 1" wide ledge, and my hands were directly above my head on two small flakes. I was trying to move my hands forward when they slipped off and I fell. Since my fingers slipped first and my feet were on something a little bigger I think I just pivoted off my toes, rolled back a little and ended up swinging upside down.
I knew I was pretty sketchy and got my body position all messed up but was still optimistic that I could make it so it was a real fall not one of those half falls where you let go just before you think you'll pitch off.
I was tied in with a figure 8 on a bite with 2 safety knots through the leg and waist loop. I'm a lean cyclist with pretty small arms (not top heavy).
I'm not too worried about the fact that I got upside down. Just wondering if you should self right automatically. For the record I was wearing a helmet cause I knew it was a bugger climb for me.
(This post was edited by jakomait on Oct 22, 2007, 7:07 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Oct 22, 2007, 7:20 PM
Post #4 of 27
(11133 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
When you find one of them self-righting harnesses could you let us know? K, thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Oct 22, 2007, 7:23 PM
Post #5 of 27
(11126 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
The only time I flipped up down I don't really remember because I smacked my head!
|
|
|
|
|
jakomait
Oct 22, 2007, 7:24 PM
Post #6 of 27
(11121 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2006
Posts: 24
|
Thats what i'm trying to find out. are ya supposed to have to flip yer self over on yer own? I guess that's a yes.
|
|
|
|
|
jgloporto
Oct 22, 2007, 7:26 PM
Post #7 of 27
(11117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2006
Posts: 5522
|
epoch wrote: When you find one of them self-righting harnesses could you let us know? K, thanks.
Ooo, ooo I found one... it's called a chest harness. Unless your head is twice the size of your body (which is possible in these parts) you should "self-right."
|
|
|
|
|
Carnage
Oct 22, 2007, 7:33 PM
Post #8 of 27
(11106 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 27, 2007
Posts: 923
|
i read (in my BD harness manual) that a waist harness promotes, but doesnt not guarantee a non-inverted hanging position. the only way to remain upright is a chest harness, as stated by jgloporto
|
|
|
|
|
epoch
Moderator
Oct 22, 2007, 7:42 PM
Post #9 of 27
(11089 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 32163
|
jgloporto wrote: epoch wrote: When you find one of them self-righting harnesses could you let us know? K, thanks. Ooo, ooo I found one... it's called a chest harness. Unless your head is twice the size of your body (which is possible in these parts) you should "self-right." 
|
|
|
|
|
jgloporto
Oct 22, 2007, 7:54 PM
Post #10 of 27
(11066 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2006
Posts: 5522
|
epoch wrote: jgloporto wrote: epoch wrote: When you find one of them self-righting harnesses could you let us know? K, thanks. Ooo, ooo I found one... it's called a chest harness. Unless your head is twice the size of your body (which is possible in these parts) you should "self-right." k thanks. ASS?
Are you asking if I'm an ass? If so, then yes... yes I am.
|
|
|
|
|
jgloporto
Oct 22, 2007, 7:59 PM
Post #11 of 27
(11060 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2006
Posts: 5522
|
Carnage wrote: i read (in my BD harness manual) that a waist harness promotes, but doesnt not guarantee a non-inverted hanging position. the only way to remain upright is a chest harness, as stated by jgloporto
...and a chest harness would include something as simple as a double length runner around your chest and a 'biner... which would also make you look like an alpinist... which may be the OP's thing... I just don't know.
(This post was edited by jgloporto on Oct 22, 2007, 8:00 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
wmfork
Oct 22, 2007, 8:13 PM
Post #12 of 27
(11027 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 4, 2006
Posts: 348
|
The only time I flipped up down I don't really remember either cause some hawtness was belaying me  . Wait, what are we talking about again?
Edit: actually that's not true (only time part). The first time was in the gym and the rope actually wrapped around my ankle and I was hanging on a draw between my ankle and my harness. So it wasn't quite self righting, more like self "horizontaling".
(This post was edited by wmfork on Oct 22, 2007, 8:17 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Oct 22, 2007, 8:15 PM
Post #13 of 27
(11019 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
It's not really a big deal on steep and roofs. I broke my back years ago and so hanging in a harness kind of sucks so anytime I'm on steep ground, under a roof, or hanging from more than a few seconds I usually invert and ride down that way righting myself just as I land. Personally, I find it more comfortable than being rightside up...
|
|
|
|
|
bent_gate
Oct 22, 2007, 8:16 PM
Post #14 of 27
(11015 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 1, 2004
Posts: 2620
|
Yes, you need to make sure you are upright when you fall if you want to stay upright.
An uncontrolled body in a sit harness (waist harness) will flip upside down most of the time.
In climber rescue it is known an unconscious climber will often flip upside down with arms hanging over their head. Try letting go of all muscle control while sitting in your sit harness at the gym. You will eventually fall sideways or backwards and flip upside down.
|
|
|
|
|
swaghole
Oct 22, 2007, 8:24 PM
Post #15 of 27
(10999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 20, 2006
Posts: 371
|
Probably depends on factors like body weight and height, how high you wear your harness, and how you fall.
I recently flipped upside down on a lead fall - i was in a layback position when i lost my grip and basically back-flipped off into the void. When the rope caught me, I really felt the harness being pulled down my waist since I was upside down when the rope tightened. My ass is wider then my hips so I was all goog. LOL Since i was against the rock, I didn't 'self right' automatically - I had to push off the rock to get my body upright.
|
|
|
|
|
charleston
Oct 22, 2007, 8:48 PM
Post #16 of 27
(10952 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 16, 2007
Posts: 5
|
i also flipped upside down after a lead fall recently.
i was on a sport route and i was at the second bolt when i slipped, the rope was around behind my leg when i fell and flipped me upside down i landed about 3' of the deck it was quite nerve racking.
i think you are always going to have to flip your self back round if you end up in that position and just remember to keep that rope between your legs.
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Oct 22, 2007, 8:51 PM
Post #17 of 27
(10944 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
jgloporto wrote: epoch wrote: jgloporto wrote: epoch wrote: When you find one of them self-righting harnesses could you let us know? K, thanks. Ooo, ooo I found one... it's called a chest harness. Unless your head is twice the size of your body (which is possible in these parts) you should "self-right." k thanks. ASS? Are you asking if I'm an ass? If so, then yes... yes I am.
The way I read it, he was offering you his ass. I thought maybe it was a northern thing.
|
|
|
|
|
shockabuku
Oct 22, 2007, 9:08 PM
Post #19 of 27
(10914 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
In case it wasn't clear, a waist harness will not automatically self-right you if you fall inverted.
|
|
|
|
|
jgloporto
Oct 22, 2007, 9:11 PM
Post #20 of 27
(10904 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2006
Posts: 5522
|
j_ung wrote: jgloporto wrote: epoch wrote: jgloporto wrote: epoch wrote: When you find one of them self-righting harnesses could you let us know? K, thanks. Ooo, ooo I found one... it's called a chest harness. Unless your head is twice the size of your body (which is possible in these parts) you should "self-right." k thanks. ASS? Are you asking if I'm an ass? If so, then yes... yes I am. The way I read it, he was offering you his ass. I thought maybe it was a northern thing.
No. Only clip-and-go NRG southerners would interpret that statement that way. My heterosexualness is evidenced by the fact that it took me two minutes to figure out what you were trying to say.
|
|
|
|
|
jgloporto
Oct 22, 2007, 9:20 PM
Post #21 of 27
(10891 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 8, 2006
Posts: 5522
|
shockabuku wrote: In case it wasn't clear, a waist harness will not automatically self-right you if you fall inverted.
We've moved past that topic... we are now discussing local custom regarding certain types of sexual inuendo... which would not in any way constitute thread drift.
|
|
|
|
|
cracklover
Oct 22, 2007, 9:27 PM
Post #22 of 27
(10886 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10162
|
shockabuku wrote: In case it wasn't clear, a waist harness will not automatically self-right you if you fall inverted.
I think you mean a sit harness. A waist-only harness (or swami belt) *will* right you. I've heard that the old-timers were slow to get on the bandwagon with sit harnesses for precisely this reason - they were afraid the modern harnesses would cause them to flip upside down if they fell. Course, it is not an unfounded worry (as shown by this thread). Still, if you've ever spent any time hanging from a swami, you know it's well-worth trading off!
charleston wrote: and just remember to keep that rope between your legs.
No! Only if you're going straight up should the rope be between your legs. If you're traversing left from your last piece, you want the rope over your right hip, and vice-versa.
GO
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
Oct 22, 2007, 10:12 PM
Post #23 of 27
(10848 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
dominic7 wrote: healyje wrote: It's not really a big deal on steep and roofs. I broke my back years ago and so hanging in a harness kind of sucks so anytime I'm on steep ground, under a roof, or hanging from more than a few seconds I usually invert and ride down that way righting myself just as I land. Personally, I find it more comfortable than being rightside up... Really? Is it like a traction sort of thing? Did you have to adjust your harness at all to lower your center of gravity to make this easier? If it was anyone other than you I would have mocked you most severely. As it is, I'll be really mad if you are pulling our collective legs and I was the first one to bite.
Nope, it's the real story. Just feels way more comfortable than staying upright. I've been doing it for so many years it's pretty effortless for me to turn over and I cross my legs in sort of an upsidedown lotus position which keeps me inverted without effort.
I've also actually taken a thirty foot lead fall from a fully-inverted, double-footjam hanging rest once. I kind of slimed out after it got over-chalked by another climber between goes and I came shooting down headfirst like a pile driver. In that case my harness un-inverted me and I ended up sitting upright after the fall so had to reinvert immediately.
In general I live to climb with my feet higher than my hands and roofs are what I enjoy most so all the inverting comes fairly natural to me.
Edit: oh, to answer your question - no, I don't do anything special with the harness. Just put it on one leg at a time and don't overly cinch it or anything. Never felt remotely like I was going to come out of one and I've been doing this for a long, long time.
(This post was edited by healyje on Oct 22, 2007, 10:16 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
shockabuku
Oct 23, 2007, 11:47 AM
Post #24 of 27
(10689 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
cracklover wrote: shockabuku wrote: In case it wasn't clear, a waist harness will not automatically self-right you if you fall inverted. I think you mean a sit harness. A waist-only harness (or swami belt) *will* right you. I've heard that the old-timers were slow to get on the bandwagon with sit harnesses for precisely this reason - they were afraid the modern harnesses would cause them to flip upside down if they fell. Course, it is not an unfounded worry (as shown by this thread). Still, if you've ever spent any time hanging from a swami, you know it's well-worth trading off! GO
Yep, my mistake, thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
blueeyedclimber
Oct 23, 2007, 1:10 PM
Post #25 of 27
(10658 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602
|
Falling is a skill. There are usually two reasons why someone might get flipped upside down. 1. rope behind the leg. 2. because they don't know how to fall and/or they just expect the equipment to do it's job.
Just because you have burnt out and have come off the route doesn't mean your job is over. Do you think a sky diver just falls? Proper body tension and equilibrium when flying through air can keep you upright. If you just loosen up and act like a dead fish then that's what you will be.
Practice falling in a gym.
Josh
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
