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cameltoe
Oct 31, 2007, 3:43 PM
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Hi all,
So next summer I am off to climb Mount Kenya, big high mountain with technical climbign at the top. One problem between now and then the odds of em getting any time off in a location with altitudes above 3000m are pretty much zero ( I am taking a month in Kenya so my boss may actually rip me a new one if i try for anything other than a long weekend).
So the question, does anyone have good tips, about how to get 'fit' for altitude without the altitude?
currently I am working on climbing in the kind of weight/boots I will be wearing on the trip plus some to get used to the alance and weight and all that, but that's really not going to help with altitude..
Thanks in advance,
BB
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reg
Oct 31, 2007, 4:14 PM
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cameltoe wrote: Hi all, So next summer I am off to climb Mount Kenya, big high mountain with technical climbign at the top. One problem between now and then the odds of em getting any time off in a location with altitudes above 3000m are pretty much zero ( I am taking a month in Kenya so my boss may actually rip me a new one if i try for anything other than a long weekend). So the question, does anyone have good tips, about how to get 'fit' for altitude without the altitude?
currently I am working on climbing in the kind of weight/boots I will be wearing on the trip plus some to get used to the alance and weight and all that, but that's really not going to help with altitude.. Thanks in advance, BB
can't realy speak tio the phisology off altitude but i will say this from expierence: be in the best arobic shape you can before you go.i was in really good shape running and biking - even carring 15 - 20 lbs on my off road runs etc. to get ready for some fourteeners in CO. when i got there and climbed an easy walk up - well it was evident that i was from sealevel. how much it will effect you has a lot to do with genitics, your general fitness and aclimitazation routine. hopefully your body will adjust quickly. if your "long weekend" is all the time you have and includes your climb, then there isn't much prep "in country" that will help. try to spend some time in the weeks before, going higher and higher before you climb day. i'm sure you know that. be sure to rest up a day or two before. do nothing. when climbing - pace yourself - don't try to bust it out to quickly or you'll fade at the end. you want to hit the tech stuff strong. start early and finish strong. hope that helps
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roy_hinkley_jr
Oct 31, 2007, 4:43 PM
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Training with a heavy pack is just going to make you slow. Intervals are your friend, lean to love them.
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billgoat
Oct 31, 2007, 4:47 PM
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cardio,cardio,cardio, and then more cardio. aerobic excercise like the other said. at high altitude there is less oxygen so the better your body can pull it out of the air the better you'll be
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swaghole
Oct 31, 2007, 4:51 PM
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Work on your cardio (running, biking) and put down some mileage hiking/backpacking. Even at lower altitudes, this is the best preparation you can do. This worked great for me on Kilimanjaro last month. It was my first high altitude experience, and apart from the headaches, it went really well.
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hopperhopper
Oct 31, 2007, 4:55 PM
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i dunno, altitude doesn't really affect me. i breathe easier up there, actually. went up in the mountains in new mexico last summer and did great. i lived in colorado for 3 years and loved it. probably just alot of running would help you.
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zealotnoob
Oct 31, 2007, 5:02 PM
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Cardio and sprints: wind sprints; hill running; mountain biking.
Check out www.mtnathlete.com
Throw a mouthpiece in during a HIT workout...
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shimanilami
Oct 31, 2007, 5:36 PM
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I heard that chronic smokers are less sensitive to altitude, because their bodies are already adapted to oxygen deprivation. The clear implication is that taking up smoking is your best bet for making it to the top of Mt. Kenya.
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8flood8
Oct 31, 2007, 5:47 PM
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workout while breathing through a straw.
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billl7
Oct 31, 2007, 6:41 PM
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8flood8 wrote: workout while breathing through a straw.
Hey, maybe the thing to do is blood doping (?). I mean, save up some of your own blood ahead of time and have it returned to your blood system just before the trip. The idea being that the extra fluid volume will be pee'd off and red blood cell levels will as a result go up. Anyone know if that ought to work? Of course, this would not replace general cardiovascular training.
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shimanilami
Oct 31, 2007, 6:45 PM
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While interval training is great to improve aerobic capacity and recovery times, when you're at altitude it is almost never a good idea to get winded. The fact is that there might not be enough oxygen in the air to recover, even if you're standing still, presuming that standing still is even an option.
I'm not sure how to go about training for it, but I think that knowing how to pace oneself is critical to success at high altitudes. Being able to set a level of output that you can sustain for 12 or 18 hours straight is key. Perhaps a heart-rate monitor would be useful for this? If you could figure out the max HR you can sustain for a full day, you could take that information with you and I'm sure it would help.
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altelis
Oct 31, 2007, 7:00 PM
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billl7 wrote: 8flood8 wrote: workout while breathing through a straw. Makes my wonder what exactly it is that promotes increased red blood cells per volume - and how often is it needed? Is it higher CO2 levels in the blood? lower O2 levels? Something else? And how sustained? 1/2 hour per day, 16 hours per day, 24 hours per day? Hey, maybe the thing to do is blood doping (?). I mean, save up some of your own blood ahead of time and have it returned to your blood system just before the trip. The idea being that the extra fluid volume will be pee'd off and red blood cell levels will as a result go up. Anyone know if that ought to work? Of course, this would not replace general cardiovascular training.
my understanding is that there are 3 things going on, all of which involve lower pressure. however 2 could THEORETICALLY be changed without the decreased pressure and the third can't
BYPASSABLE:
the relative percentage of 02/CO2 levels in the blood. the root cause of this at altitude is clearly pressure. however there are probably a myriad of easily replicated ways to train in such a way to reproduce this physiological condition at low altitude. Train in a way that replicates low 02 levels in the blood and you'll be at a LITTLE bit of an advantage.
NONBYPASSABLE:
The binding affinity of hemoglobin is dependant on pressure. this is the crux. not only is there less 02 in the blood for the hemoglobin to pick up but the affinity is lessened with a decrease in the partial pressure of 02. this is why your body increases the production red blood cells.
If there was simply less oxygen in the blood how would MORE hemoglobin help? It wouldn't. You would just have a greater number of hemoglobin without bound O2. Essentially, if the altitude problem were simply a case of a decrease in 02 concentration you would have a basic limiting reagent problem, right? 02 is the limiting reagent, so increasing the concentration of the other reagents DOES NOT EFFECT reaction rate or percent yield.
Because we know that the body responds in a PRODUCTIVE manner to high altitude by increasing hemoglobin concentration we know that shear concentration of 02 is not the only problem at altitude.
The problem is that with a lower partial pressure of 02 comes a lower binding affinity with hemoglobin. The hemoglobin is less EFFECTIVE at picking up 02. Not only is there less 02 in the blood but the hemoglobin can't bind it like it could at low elevations, meaning not all the 02 available (which is less than at low altitude) is not being utilized.
So now, because of lowered binding affinity at lower partial pressures of 02, the HEMOGLOBIN is the limiting reagent. Find a way to increase hemoglobin at lower altitudes and you should be all set.
Good cardio health makes you that much more efficient at moving 02 into the cells to be used in the TCA cycle. So you have a definite edge at altitude. But this, in the end, isn't enough.
Of course you do have to worry about too much hemoglobing causing the blood to become "sludgy" and requiring the heart to work harder to move it.......too bad nothing is simple, huh? Some one is laughing!!
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stymingersfink
Nov 1, 2007, 12:01 AM
Post #13 of 17
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cameltoe wrote: Hi all, So next summer I am off to climb Mount Kenya, big high mountain with technical climbign at the top. One problem between now and then the odds of em getting any time off in a location with altitudes above 3000m are pretty much zero ( I am taking a month in Kenya so my boss may actually rip me a new one if i try for anything other than a long weekend). So the question, does anyone have good tips, about how to get 'fit' for altitude without the altitude?
currently I am working on climbing in the kind of weight/boots I will be wearing on the trip plus some to get used to the alance and weight and all that, but that's really not going to help with altitude.. Thanks in advance, BB
Well, 3kM is still (barely) less than 10k feet, so I would imagine that you'll acclimate fine on the approach.
Living in Salt Lake (about 5k feet), the ski resorts are mostly up around the 9k foot level. What with the international airport and all, it's easy for people to fly in from sea level and be at 10k+ feet with less than 24 hrs acclimation. Occasionally these people might feel a little effect from the altitude (if racing from the airport to the slopes to max out their ski vacation), to include dizziness, nausea, or passing out (this last one I've heard of happening, but never seen first hand).
Personally, IMO, if you're reasonably fit, you've got nothing to worry about. The approach will acclimate you for something there's really no way to train for short of being at altitude. 'Course, OTOH, I've heard tell of big mountain climbers "training" with a cigarette or two (ok, maybe more like that pack-a-day habit) to simulate the lack of O2, but that's probably not the best way.
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cameltoe
Nov 1, 2007, 2:28 PM
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Ah - to clarify - Mt Kenya is at around 5200metres - and is 5.6/7 climbing at the top. Hence the altitude concern, the problem being I won'g get above 3000metres at all before then..
Sorry fo the vagueness of the original.
The advice so far seems to centre on cardio, so I guess a lot of running and long hikes in pack is going to have to do it.
(The above may also explain training in pack and boots at the gyym - thats actually what I'll be doing at altitude hence the need to get used to moving like that comfortably. I will be extending the boot and pack to my outdoor work soon too.. )
Thanks for all the advice so far.
Cheers,
BB
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rmsusa
Nov 1, 2007, 3:28 PM
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In reply to: when you're at altitude it is almost never a good idea to get winded.
Good luck with that one!!
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shimanilami
Nov 1, 2007, 4:39 PM
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rmsusa wrote: In reply to: when you're at altitude it is almost never a good idea to get winded. Good luck with that one!!
Point taken! But I still think that what I said about pacing is correct. If you can avoid getting winded by setting an appropriate pace for yourself, you're going to be better off.
On another note, Mt. Kenya is only ~17,000 feet high and it's right near the equator. It shouldn't be that big a deal for someone in decent aerobic shape and with a few days to acclimate.
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angry
Nov 1, 2007, 4:54 PM
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Fitness doesn't hurt, but you'll just have to take your time.
Spend the first week hiking and ferrying loads and after that you'll be fine.
I climbed to 6700m or so this summer. We spent the first week going really slow and once acclimated were able to make a bunch of light and fast single day pushes to the summit.
Lets be clear though, there is nothing you can do to acclimate when not at altitude. Just get in good shape and take your time.
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