The following is a part of a conversation I just had with a friend who had just spent the past weekend climbing at the Creek. I relay it to you all here to get some feedback and ideas about the best way to go about preserving a limited resource.

When I heard he had been climbing at the Creek, of course had to ask: What area were you climbing at?

"Way Rambo... got on a couple of off-widths, some other stuff."

"Serrator, huh... How'd that go... you lead it?"

"Well, some guy lead it, his second couldn't get up it, so I offered to clean it"

"Yeah, whaddaya think of it?"

"It's tough... Gastons, ya can't fit your knee in at the bottom, fist stacks..."

"Then I lead that .11 just right of it"

"Layaway plan?"

"Yeah, that's the one... "

"What did you think of that roof... the way the rope cuts into the edge? I've heard some guys route the rope into the crack, then the rope pushes their cams way back in there too."

"Yeah, it was crazy... like 4" deep rope cuts in the edge of the roof. My buddy had his cam pushed in there by the rope when he lead it"

"It's a damn shame the damage that happens when someone TR's or seconds some of the routes like that one down there"

"Well, yeah... the rope grooves are ugly, plus once the weathered surface of the rock is damaged, water gets into the rock, speeding up its demise"

"Hadn't thought of that... Wonder if someone shouldn't put a bolt at that corner, down on the slab, to keep the rope from wearing on that corner... You think that's something that would sit well with the community?"

"Good idea, and good question.... I dunno... it would help preserve the resource, question is, would people go for it?"

I now put this question to you, the masses:

What would the general consensus be on a LIMITED placing of bolts on established routes, positioned in order to keep the rope from WEARING in places where it has already been demonstrated that the rock suffers severe damage. Places like the far right corner of the roof on Layaway Plan, for instance*.

Would it not be prudent to at least consider placing a bolt down on the slab below the corner, such that the rope might be clipped to a QD, thereby keeping it from rubbing excessively on the corner of the roof, preventing further destruction and more unsightly rope grooves in the soft edge of the rock?


How many other routes in the Creek might benefit from such preventive maintenance? Is this something future FA'ists should keep in mind when establishing a route... the steps necessarily taken to prevent damage by future ascentionists?

NOTE: I'm NOT talking about bolting a crack for protection, I'm talking about the intelligent placement of a bolts near high-wear areas to ensure the continued longevity of those routes most likely to be loved to death.















*I've got to set up my desktop so I can access some pic's I took several years ago of the roof's edge. Once it's up and running, I'll post a pic of the edge I'm referring to in this example. Give me a day or two... I'll post them in the thread if there's any interest in discussing this issue.

No one besides the bolter would ever know its use. I don't have any confidence in the general users figuring it out on their own.

Outside of that issue, I support the idea of one bolt to protect the rock.

Perhaps at first. But if it had wide support of the community before it was done enough people would know to educate others.

That being said there are still people who still don't understand the concept of TRing or doing multiple lowers on the same anchor through their own hardware.

Let me describe Layaway Plan for you. Better yet, here's a picture of the roof corner that I'm speaking of; though it might be a little difficult to see the rope grooves, they are there, to the climbers right, just below the bright sunlit area.

[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/1/7381-largest_78603.jpg[/image]

The route goes up a right facing corner, then traverses right (where our climber is seen under the roof), then goes up in the right facing corner to the chains (about another 15-20' IIRC).

The particular bolt I'm thinking would be prudent to place would be at about the elevation of the climbers feet, approximately 18-24 inches to the right of the continuation of the right facing corner. One can see where the face angle changes just to the right of where the big roof ends. There is a little micro-roof above the black wear-marks on the rock...just to the right of that, in my mind, would be the best place to clip a draw to keep the rope away from the edge. A single bolt with a quick-linked perma-draw would probably get the point across plainly enough.

Here's another shot (with Ben Folsom climbing it?) where a couple of the rope grooves are just barely visible in the upper right corner of the frame:

[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/6/48976-largest_68731.jpg[/image]


The upper 1/3 of the climb, though the camera's tilted to make it look less steep than it is, one can clearly see the anchors:

[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/6/6756-largest_78765.jpg[/image]

Do the pictures help?

Although your concerns about protecting the route are valid, you must also acknowledge that whenever you place a bolt on a route, it changes the character of the route.

Now, if somehow (in other situation) you could place a bolt that is out of reach of the leading climber and can only be clipped while lowering to protect the rock, <snip>

then one could argue that the additional bolt is simply the extension of the anchor.

That's where the problem would come in, you see. When the leader is being lowered is when the rope abrasion begins to cut grooves into the roof edge, so by then it is too late.

I've long been a proponent of fixed belay stations in areas of high traffic. They spare vegetation, and decrease wares (fixed soft goods/rap stations) left on the cliffside. I think this instance is similar. If there's an impact that can be lessened with a bolt, then place the bolt if the FA is ok with it.

Just be sure that, in the long run, the bolt is less impact than the alternative.

What about rappelling instead?

I'd agree with this, except to say that I don't think FA permission is necessary.

I like to respect the FA, but here we're talking a resource being damaged, which I think is more important.

But, I also think we are a long way off from any sort of agreement on this. Belays which are bolted solely to spare vegetation still gets chopped in the name of trad.

The belay is bolted and chained. There is no vegetation to speak of in the immediate area. I'm talking more about placing a single bolt below and outside a corner, in order that a rope will not damage the rock. As a side benefit, it would also help reduce rope wear a small amount.

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear. I was trying to compare an analogous situation.

Much of the worst wear that I've seen on sandstone cracks has to do w/ people top roping them en masse with belays from below, lower offs, and massive hang dogging. Maybe we can just try to tread more lightly in areas that are getting beat up?

Edit...I see the grooves now. Still, it will compromise the degree of topropedness of the hard pull around the roof, so I bet people would ignore it...just like they do when they don't run the rope away from the edge w/ long sling.

I have added a small "X" to the location I'm suggesting would provide the most benefit to the rock itself:

[IMG]http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/daryns77/7381-largest_78603copy.jpg[/IMG]

Does that help with understanding more what I'm suggesting? Would providing a fixed draw also help to get the point across to those who choose to climb the line? Something just short enough to keep the rope from wearing grooves in the corner.

I think those bright enough to place their own gear intelligently would also come to realize quite quickly the intent behind the bolt+draw. The question is, would they also welcome and appreciate the intent?