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healyje
Nov 29, 2007, 2:55 AM
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caughtinside wrote: hey that's cute, guessing how I'd surf. It's also pretty funny, since the first guys to tow in to mavericks were also some of the early maverick's paddle in guys. Probably a good guess though. While I've toyed with the idea of surfing on and off again, I can state without hesitation I'd never tow into a wave the that could be paddled - it's a pretty simple idea with no shortage of parallels in climbing.
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caughtinside
Nov 29, 2007, 3:04 AM
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healyje wrote: caughtinside wrote: hey that's cute, guessing how I'd surf. It's also pretty funny, since the first guys to tow in to mavericks were also some of the early maverick's paddle in guys. Probably a good guess though. While I've toyed with the idea of surfing on and off again, I can state without hesitation I'd never tow into a wave the that could be paddled - it's a pretty simple idea with no shortage of parallels in climbing. Actually no. tow in never really appealed to me. The best thing about surfing is it's simplicity, you and a board. I'm not really sure why people would drag out a ski for a wave you can paddle into, except to train. Besides, I grew up a competitive swimmer, I can paddle into just about anything. The waves I can't ride, I can't ride because I'm not good enough. A more apt comparison would be difficulty. Hard waves are more like 5.13. I could paddle into them as a 5.11 surfer, but most of the time I did, I got pummeled. Here's some food for thought: I think your sport/trad distinction has a much better parallel in shortboarding/longboarding, not bolting waves or lack thereof. So there, you're right. I almost exclusively shortboard. But there are always a couple guys out who longboard, even when the conditions are clearly better suited to a shortboard. The best waves are more or less unrideable on longboards. And the best sport waves are packed. Just like the best sport crags.
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nilcarborundum
Nov 29, 2007, 3:06 AM
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ja1484 wrote: Torag7 wrote: So I was told today that being an trad climber makes me a dying breed, because most people nowadays are drifting towards bouldering or sport with less preparation and mind games. I haven't been climbing long enough to see a change...what do you all think? There are quite a few people climbing trad these days. They are less common than sporties and boulderers of course, because those two varieties don't require anything much beyond fitness and knowing how a carabiner works. Climbing as an activity overall is growing quickly, but trad is slower to follow because it's a type of climbing that presents many more ways to injure or kill yourself. Plus, it's quite a bit scarier at times for a multitude of reasons. I'll give you an example of my buddy and I topping out a climb about a week back: Me: "Got a good anchor up there?" Partner: "I suppose it'll work. You're on belay, climb when ready." Me: "You *suppose* it'll work?" Partner: "I've looked around up here quite a bit. It's not gonna get any better. Try not to fall." Me: "....climbing." Sometimes, that's just how it goes. There's also the cost-to-entry barrier. The people really swelling the ranks in bouldering and sport tend to be teens and college students with a lot of free time and little free money. The idea of ponying up 12-1800 for a trad rack seems implausible when a couple hundred bucks lets them explore the sport crag with the convenient parking. This has been my argument for via ferrata. I've always wanted to do some big walls, but it seems like there is a large learning curve, plus a high cost to boot. It seems like a wall like el cap, or maybe something in zion, could get one via ferrata route on it without being in the way of any classics.
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ja1484
Nov 29, 2007, 3:23 AM
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nilcarborundum wrote: This has been my argument for via ferrata. I've always wanted to do some big walls, but it seems like there is a large learning curve, plus a high cost to boot. It seems like a wall like el cap, or maybe something in zion, could get one via ferrata route on it without being in the way of any classics. Have to disagree there. That learning curve and cost factor keeps a lot of people off of walls who might otherwise get up there with easier access and have no business being there. Make no mistake: walls, even multipitch trad routes, aren't the same as less committing forms of climbing. Even Via Ferrata, that kind of vertical distance takes some time, and retreat is a matter of hours, not minutes. People who head up on these adventures need to be prepared to deal with objective hazards much more directly, as avoiding them becomes a far more difficult prospect. Bigger stone is rarefied air for good reason...you can't turn joe sixpack 5.13 bolt-burner loose on a big wall, because he just doesn't have the knowledge or judgement to know how to relate to this new environment.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on Nov 29, 2007, 3:26 AM)
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climbsomething
Nov 29, 2007, 3:24 AM
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Other, Other Jay: Did you get permission from jt to use his ace-in-the-troll photo?
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jt512
Nov 29, 2007, 3:29 AM
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mach2 wrote: This may not be surfing related, but I think Evidence that trad is certainly not on the decline is the prominent gear development. There are more trad climbers today than ever before. However, the percentage of climbers who trad climb is down from say 10 years ago. So, trad had decreased in popularity among more and more climbers. HTH. Jay
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ja1484
Nov 29, 2007, 4:34 AM
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jt512 wrote: There are more trad climbers today than ever before. However, the percentage of climbers who trad climb is down from say 10 years ago. So, trad had decreased in popularity among more and more climbers. HTH. Jay I think it'd be more accurate to say that very few of the people getting into climbing are getting involved in trad. Let's not forget that climbing has exploded in popularity over the past ten years overall...so I guess it's accurate to say that trad is unpopular amongst the newer generation. At the moment. I wouldn't say it declined in popularity, I'd just say there's a large new population that is uninterested/unwilling/uninsertyourreasonhere.
(This post was edited by ja1484 on Nov 29, 2007, 4:35 AM)
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theirishman
Nov 29, 2007, 4:37 AM
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i think trad will come back up with a vengance when people realize what sonny trotter realized "Their was something missing from sport climbing, adventure."
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ja1484
Nov 29, 2007, 4:38 AM
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theirishman wrote: i think trad will come back up with a vengance when people realize what sonny trotter realized "Their was something missing from sport climbing, adventure." When's punctuation gonna come back up with a vengeance?
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moose_droppings
Nov 29, 2007, 5:22 AM
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ja1484 wrote: theirishman wrote: i think trad will come back up with a vengance when people realize what sonny trotter realized " Thier was something missing from sport climbing, adventure." When's punctuation gonna come back up with a vengeance? Spelling too.
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tradrenn
Nov 29, 2007, 5:28 AM
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Gear is queer, sport it where it's at.
(This post was edited by tradrenn on Nov 29, 2007, 5:52 AM)
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healyje
Nov 29, 2007, 6:39 AM
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tradrenn wrote: Gear is queer, sport it where it's at. Sport calling trad ghey - now that would be a juxtaposition of reality worthy of Rove himself.
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healyje
Nov 29, 2007, 6:47 AM
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caughtinside wrote: The waves I can't ride, I can't ride because I'm not good enough. That's basically my point all along with the analogy - that there is nothing you can 'do' to a wave to make it easier to ride.
caughtinside wrote: The best thing about surfing is it's simplicity, you and a board. And this is how I feel about trad climbing - you, your rack and the rock as I found it. I'm either good enough to climb it as is or I'm not. But I'm glad to hear you get the idea regardless of the activity it hails from. If more folks had that fundamental concept in some form or another climbing would be better off.
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caughtinside
Nov 29, 2007, 7:07 AM
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healyje wrote: caughtinside wrote: The waves I can't ride, I can't ride because I'm not good enough. That's basically my point all along with the analogy - that there is nothing you can 'do' to a wave to make it easier to ride. caughtinside wrote: The best thing about surfing is it's simplicity, you and a board. And this is how I feel about trad climbing - you, your rack and the rock as I found it. I'm either good enough to climb it as is or I'm not. But I'm glad to hear you get the idea regardless of the activity it hails from. If more folks had that fundamental concept in some form or another climbing would be better off. Yeah, but I disagree because a bolt does not make moves easier to do. You can either pull them or you can't. And ironically, that's one of the things I like about sport climbing. The simplicity. a dozen draws and the moves, not a bunch of BS clanging around on my body. Bolts in rock do not detract from my enjoyment of climbing.
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jt512
Nov 29, 2007, 7:35 AM
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healyje wrote: tradrenn wrote: Gear is queer, sport it where it's at. Sport calling trad ghey - now that would be a juxtaposition of reality worthy of Rove himself. If you can't use the right word, at least use a big one. Jay
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healyje
Nov 29, 2007, 8:51 AM
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caughtinside wrote: Yeah, but I disagree because a bolt does not make moves easier to do. You can either pull them or you can't. Compared to protecting and doing them it's fundamentally far easier - that's why folks are always complaining here about leading trad three levels below their sport grade.
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healyje
Nov 29, 2007, 8:54 AM
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jt512 wrote: If you can't use the right word, at least use a big one. Jay If you don't have anything useful to say, at least comment on grammar to make yourself look like a big one.
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ja1484
Nov 29, 2007, 12:46 PM
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jt512 wrote: If you can't use the right word, at least use a big one. Stolen for new sig.
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p0bray01
Nov 29, 2007, 1:25 PM
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Hmmm I was feeling actually like trad is a growing breed...(if thats a phrase to use) because more and more places are getting banned from bolting...(or banned completely from climbing) It woud seem to me that if things continue on this path...trad may be the only way you can climb...that or bouldering.
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caughtinside
Nov 29, 2007, 4:08 PM
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healyje wrote: caughtinside wrote: Yeah, but I disagree because a bolt does not make moves easier to do. You can either pull them or you can't. Compared to protecting and doing them it's fundamentally far easier - that's why folks are always complaining here about leading trad three levels below their sport grade. Maybe for climbing. But for surfing, there are very few waves that I'd say are truly R.
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rockie
Nov 29, 2007, 7:49 PM
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Trad is getting ever more popular as we go along, and has overtaken sport climbing from all I gather
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rockie
Nov 29, 2007, 7:51 PM
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Whoever told you that was wrong.. Bouldering is there simply to assist with strength building for trad climbing
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tradrenn
Nov 30, 2007, 12:37 AM
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jt512 wrote: healyje wrote: tradrenn wrote: Gear is queer, sport it where it's at. Sport calling trad ghey - now that would be a juxtaposition of reality worthy of Rove himself. If you can't use the right word, at least use a big one. Jay If you would take a look at my user name then you would understand that I was being sarcastic. How dare you pick on Healye ? Again, I'm just kidding around. On a serious note: If sport is all one does then you are missing out, there is nothing greater then a 5.8+ or a 5.9+ to lead.
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cchas
Dec 10, 2007, 4:02 AM
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healyje wrote: caughtinside wrote: Yeah, but I disagree because a bolt does not make moves easier to do. You can either pull them or you can't. Compared to protecting and doing them it's fundamentally far easier - that's why folks are always complaining here about leading trad three levels below their sport grade. Yahoo!!!!! I should then be climbing 5.15 or 5.16...YES! Actually I'm too much of a wimp on sport routes and my trad and my sport abilities are about even (+/- a letter grade). Actually I see a lot of young people getting into trad. About a month or so I saw a guy at Paradise Forks that at the climbing gym I'd swear was a boulderer, but the kid (he's maybe 19) totally walked a 5.12 crack on lead, onsight. Not exactly young, but I climb with a woman who's about 25, but she just started climb a short time ago, who leads 5.11/5.12 cracks on a daily basis. From my viewpoint I see a lot of young kids out there leading trad, and they are getting sick strong fast.
(This post was edited by cchas on Dec 10, 2007, 4:03 AM)
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