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azstickbow
Dec 4, 2007, 4:51 AM
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Registered: Dec 28, 2004
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I have seen this coming for a while but didn't want to bring it up because I didn't want to stir the pot. The time has come where I have to say something just to say I did and get it out in the open.
I just got off the phone with Sherman and he told me it looks like we are not going to get Tamo. Here's why. A very small but very vocal minority of climbers has been successful in convincing RCC that "we" don't really want Tamo. The Access Fund also made it clear they its leaders had no interest in Tamo a long time ago. What RCC hears the climbers saying is what "we" really want is access to the few boulders and crags at Oak Flat outside the area of mining activities and that is enough.
Now I'm sure some will think this is a great victory but remember. You aren't getting anything more than what RCC offered when this whole thing started. Actually we are getting less because they had always planned on helping us find new rock, acquire it, build roads and campgrounds etc. So, by successfully convincing them that "we" don't want Tamo "we" have saved them at least $3 million dollars and climbers will get no mitigation for the lost climbs at Oak Flat. All climbers, not jus the few who have fought it, have lost the 2100 routes and approximately 2000 boulder problems we could have had at Tamo in addition to all the routes we will lose at Oak Flat... for nothing. RCC couldn't be happier because they are off the hook.
Unless there are some serious efforts (and soon) by both local and nonlocal climbers to support Tamo it is dead and we will have lost what would certainly have been one of the most popular areas in the Southwest. I'm just sick about this because I know what a great place we could have had.
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pheenixx
Dec 8, 2007, 7:39 AM
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Registered: May 22, 2004
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azstickbow wrote: I'm just sick about this because I know what a great place we could have had.
Don't be sic azstick ~ You didn't loose anything and nobody else has either.
Tamo is already owned by the climbers - always has been and always will be, it's public land.
Refer to mp.com for same discussion and details.
Feel better ~phxx
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rjtrials
Dec 11, 2007, 5:46 PM
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What we needed to get out of the copper company was a better access and parking. Sure you can climb there now, but a four hour jeep trail is the only access...
RJ
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shockabuku
Dec 11, 2007, 8:06 PM
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Registered: May 20, 2006
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pheenixx wrote: Tamo is already owned by the climbers - always has been and always will be, it's public land.
In light of the issue that elicited this statement, it's rather naive.
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scotchie
Dec 11, 2007, 9:09 PM
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Registered: Jul 31, 2004
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This wasn't a vocal minority. It was the vocal majority.
RCC was only going to put up ~ $100-200k towards the road to TAMO. The rest was supposed to come from the state. Only the state hasn't approved the money for it. We would probably never have gotten a road to TAMO anyway.
As for all those climbs and boulder problems, you can go there now. Legal directions are posted on MP.
As for RCC leaving access to parts of QC in/crossing their land, they never guaranteed (in the bill) to do any of that. It was all smoke and mirrors.
As for losing access to QC, it still requires the bill to be passed. Which it hasn't. It's buried in committee, we have a Demo majority in congress right now, and the Bushies will be out of office in a little over a year. The political conditions just aren't the same as they were in 2004/5.
So for now Oak Flat is still wilderness land, and RCC can't mine it. We can still climb it. And we can still climb at TAMO too, if anyone actually wanted to.
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pheenixx
Dec 16, 2007, 7:33 AM
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Registered: May 22, 2004
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shockabuku wrote: pheenixx wrote: Tamo is already owned by the climbers - always has been and always will be, it's public land. In light of the issue that elicited this statement, it's rather naive.
What's naive - this thread..? Yeah, sure seems to be and an obvious answer from folks that know the situation. I was attempting to show a little compassion for someone that may be feeling bad for no reason.
Scotchie - It's also because the Tribes came out against it and we all know the Gover'r tries to keep on smokin' that ol' peace pipe to keep her scalp on tight at night..!  Ahahaha ~ Cheers
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shockabuku
Dec 16, 2007, 6:23 PM
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Registered: May 20, 2006
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pheenixx wrote: shockabuku wrote: pheenixx wrote: Tamo is already owned by the climbers - always has been and always will be, it's public land. In light of the issue that elicited this statement, it's rather naive. What's naive - this thread..? Yeah, sure seems to be and an obvious answer from folks that know the situation. I was attempting to show a little compassion for someone that may be feeling bad for no reason. Scotchie - It's also because the Tribes came out against it and we all know the Gover'r tries to keep on smokin' that ol' peace pipe to keep her scalp on tight at night..! Ahahaha ~ Cheers
No, that it's only one land swap away from being private property some day.
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pheenixx
Dec 16, 2007, 6:40 PM
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Registered: May 22, 2004
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shockabuku wrote: No, that it's only one land swap away from being private property some day.
Doesn't have to go that way. As of today, nothing has changed (except RCC has LOST 3x's) and we still own Oak Flat. We ARE winning...and we can continue to win if the climbers stick together and realize there is a BIGGER picture here at stake. Don't give in to the scare tactics of RCC. They need to mine responsibly and NOT mine the cheapest and most damaging way to our land..! To allow them to Land Swap gives them the authority to bypass EPA and numerous safeguards.
RCC & WLG - Play fair or GET OUT OF AZ..!!
(This post was edited by pheenixx on Dec 16, 2007, 6:41 PM)
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jgloporto
Jan 11, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #9 of 9
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Registered: Aug 8, 2006
Posts: 5522
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azstickbow wrote: I have seen this coming for a while but didn't want to bring it up because I didn't want to stir the pot. The time has come where I have to say something just to say I did and get it out in the open. I just got off the phone with Sherman and he told me it looks like we are not going to get Tamo. Here's why. A very small but very vocal minority of climbers has been successful in convincing RCC that "we" don't really want Tamo. The Access Fund also made it clear they its leaders had no interest in Tamo a long time ago. What RCC hears the climbers saying is what "we" really want is access to the few boulders and crags at Oak Flat outside the area of mining activities and that is enough. Now I'm sure some will think this is a great victory but remember. You aren't getting anything more than what RCC offered when this whole thing started. Actually we are getting less because they had always planned on helping us find new rock, acquire it, build roads and campgrounds etc. So, by successfully convincing them that "we" don't want Tamo "we" have saved them at least $3 million dollars and climbers will get no mitigation for the lost climbs at Oak Flat. All climbers, not jus the few who have fought it, have lost the 2100 routes and approximately 2000 boulder problems we could have had at Tamo in addition to all the routes we will lose at Oak Flat... for nothing. RCC couldn't be happier because they are off the hook. Unless there are some serious efforts (and soon) by both local and nonlocal climbers to support Tamo it is dead and we will have lost what would certainly have been one of the most popular areas in the Southwest. I'm just sick about this because I know what a great place we could have had.
Bastards!
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