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Vinny_A
Dec 10, 2007, 2:55 AM
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Hey guys I plan on going Ice climbing for my first time this winter and as of now am at a complete loss with all this gear. Basically I dont know anyone with enough gear to let me borrow for a bit so Im going to have to get my own. So basically heres what I need, Tools, Boots, Crampons, Gloves, pants, jacket, and various other things. Im on a tight budget so I need cheap gear, I may be able to pro deal some things (I work at a gym) but Im not sure if they will pro deal me Ice climbing gear. So basically whats some good starter gear?
Oh also can someone please explain to me this whole deal with twin and double ropes? What is the advantage to running these? I cant for the life of me figure out.
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andypro
Dec 10, 2007, 3:12 AM
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This
Vinny_A wrote: So basically heres what I need, Tools, Boots, Crampons, Gloves, pants, jacket, and various other things.
And this
Vinny_A wrote: Im on a tight budget so I need cheap gear
Are pretty near mutually exclusive. How tight of a budget are we talking? $1000? Less? More?
You might be able to get away with used tools and crampons, but for boots you really should go new. And try on tons of them to make sure they fit right. dont skimp here.
--Andy P
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Vinny_A
Dec 10, 2007, 3:18 AM
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By a tight budget I mean that I would prefer cheap gear but I can make pretty much anything work. I might not even need a Jacket and Pants I might be able to make my snowboard jacket and pants work (I dont see why I wouldnt be able to). I should also be able to pro deal sportiva boots and black diamond gear so that should help. So basically when I say Im on a tight budget I mean I can spend as much as I need to but Id prefer to keep it on the low cost side
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Vinny_A
Dec 10, 2007, 3:23 AM
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I was always under the impression thats its ok to say that you can prodeal things but not how much you can get them for. Thats the way its always been for me and the people I work with atleast
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carabiner96
Dec 10, 2007, 3:31 AM
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Vinny_A wrote: I was always under the impression thats its ok to say that you can prodeal things but not how much you can get them for. Thats the way its always been for me and the people I work with atleast
That's not what the manufacturers want to hear.
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summerprophet
Dec 10, 2007, 3:31 AM
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All the clothing can be had for a steal at goodwill / value village / salvation army. If you cannot find a good pair of cheap waterproof gloves, waterproof them yourself.
You want good boots; new leathers, or well fitting barely used plastic boots.
If there is an ice climbing community around, drop the word that you are looking at getting into it. You might be able to trade your prodeal opportunity for some old beat tools or crampons.
For just starting, you don't need much, get some short tools (less than 60 cm) with replaceable picks and a pair of crampons that fit your boots.
As far as double vs. twin, doubles are clipped to alternate pieces as you climb, and are better if you are worried about sharp edges or worried about rope drag around a corner. Twins are treated as if you were climbing on a single rope, both strands are clipped to each piece, only advantage is having two ropes for rappel.
J.
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petsfed
Dec 10, 2007, 3:43 AM
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carabiner96 wrote: Vinny_A wrote: I was always under the impression thats its ok to say that you can prodeal things but not how much you can get them for. Thats the way its always been for me and the people I work with atleast That's not what the manufacturers want to hear.
BD's policy is that so long as its for yourself, you can brag all you want about your pd. If you're prodealing stuff for other people and BD catches wind of it, they pull your company's prodeal. The Arcteryx rep used to warn the REI employees that if you're a dude and you start ordering women's clothing, they'll pull the PD.
I have my fair share of prodealed stuff via various sources, and my "dealer" informed me that I couldn't say any of it was prodealed. That was 5 years ago though, maybe BD, Patagonia, Sportiva, and others have gotten bitchy since then.
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Vinny_A
Dec 10, 2007, 4:58 AM
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Alright well I'd prefer not to go used (just personal preference) but anyway about tools. Im going to be doing alot of mixed climbing so I want something I can use leashless and with a leash. In my searches today these caught my eye:
Grivlel x Monster
http://www.moosejaw.com/...9JVE1XP337PCR16LC794
BD Reactor
http://www.moosejaw.com/...9JVE1XP337PCR16LC794
What do you guys think about these? Im also going to need some suggestions for crampons.
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kricir
Dec 10, 2007, 5:56 AM
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I just got a pair of the BD reactors this year and so far I really like them. Remember though that any route that requires significant sections of snow plunging (most alpine routes) requires a straight shafted tool, so these things are really only good for ice cragging. I disagree that you have to learn on leashed tools, just rig some kind of tether system whenever your in a situation where dropping a tool would be bad news.
oh, and about pants, If you get another pair for ice climbing get the cheapest pair of rain pants you can and put on one or two base layers underneath. Everyone I have ever known has shredded their shell pants in the first year or 2 of learning how to ice climb. Your bulky snowboard pants don't stand a chance.
(This post was edited by kricir on Dec 10, 2007, 6:05 AM)
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Uncia
Dec 10, 2007, 6:24 PM
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I can't believe nobody has said this but drive yourself to an ice fest. They are happening all winter long and you will be able to demo gear and probably figure out if you really like this sport before dropping a wad on it.
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angry
Dec 10, 2007, 6:38 PM
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I don't think you can go wrong with either of those tools. The Reactor looks like a good solid performer with a replaceable pick.
I've climbed ice on X-monsters and they are pretty damn nice. Odd since they are just a piece of spring steel. They'll give you far more options on rock and stand up to a wild amount of abuse compared to a less springy tool.
I've jammed my monsters (a more aggressive xmonster, better for overhangs on rock, worse on ice) sideways into a crack and done a pullup on them. I'll cam the tip of a pick at 45 degrees into a crack and torque until it sticks. The spring steel seems to compensate and I don't break anything.
If you do break a pick or otherwise eff it up. You're stuck and need a new tool. The BD's won't allow such wildness on rock but are probably more serviceable.
I'd also like to add to the leash comment.
I've never dropped a tool. On my first day out I climbed both leashed and leashless. I never dropped anything. Since then I've been exclusively leashless and even fallen leashless. The axes don't fly out of your hands when you fall.
I nearly dropped a tool in Peru because a leash came undone and I didn't know it. I was counting on being leashed and in fact I was leashless. I've heard of this happening a lot. Leashes may lead to a complacency that could allow you to drop a tool.
Just play around a lot, with a lot of tools. Nothing is set, just find toys and play with them.
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Vinny_A
Dec 10, 2007, 10:40 PM
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Awesome thanks for all the advice so far guys. Ice climbing has always been something that I've really wanted to get into and I'm so happy Im finally getting into it.
About the ice festivals go what are some ones near philly/PA? I'll definately hit one up if its within a days drive.
For tools without swinging any I think that the BD reactors are the best bet for me. Fully modular and cheap too. Now I need some help with crampons and boots. I know nothing about crampons except that I will not be doing anything except ice climbing with them so I dont need a multipurpose pair. I was even thinking of getting some fruit boots like the sportivas. Any ideas guys?
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stymingersfink
Dec 11, 2007, 12:41 AM
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fruit boots are going to offer much less insulation/versatility than anything else. You can't hike into a climb with them on, that's for sure. Great for mixed lines, perhaps ok for a day of ice-cragging, but on those multi-pitch beasts you're sure to get yourself on eventually, you're probably gonna want something else (at least until you can solo them).
Sounds like you've got your heart set on the Reactors... get over it. They're a decent tool for mixing it up, a decent tool for ice, but IMHO, they're not the best tool to begin with. You should be able to find a pair of used Vipers with Fangs/etc on ebay for about the same price as a single Reactor, maybe even with leashes. Use 'em. It'll open up more ice for ya until you get real comfortable on steep ice, then choose to wear or not wear them.
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clipinmt
Dec 12, 2007, 2:20 AM
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good choice on the tools, everyone that climbs on mine has something to like about them.
boots eh, I have found that there are a few brands out there that fit my feet no matter what there intended use are hiking, mountaineering, steep ice. Pick you fav. boots, I would start trying on those and go from there. comfort is what you want. If you enjoy the sport you will end up with one for every condition anyway.
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granite_grrl
Dec 22, 2007, 9:15 PM
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petsfed wrote: Learn to climb with leashes first. If you've never done it before, you will drop your tools. This is not a guess. You can probably find some cheap tools on ebay or craigs list.
Just because you have dropped your tools doesn't mean other people do. I never bought leashes and yet somehow I haven't dropped a tool yet.
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stymingersfink
Dec 23, 2007, 5:31 AM
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granite_grrl wrote: petsfed wrote: Learn to climb with leashes first. If you've never done it before, you will drop your tools. This is not a guess. You can probably find some cheap tools on ebay or craigs list. Just because you have dropped your tools doesn't mean other people do. I never bought leashes and yet somehow I haven't dropped a tool yet.
In one instance, the tool in question got bumped from the ice while an attempt was being made to clip to it, resulting in the leader soon thereafter taking the whip. Luckily it was on some WI5+, so it was a clean fall.
No... it was my partner.
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chedontsurf
Jan 4, 2008, 12:57 AM
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before you buy reactors, check out the DMM rebels and anarchists. they're basically the same tools, but with different grips. i got the rebels for this season and i love them. the leashes clip on, so they're super easy to unclip. they're made from I-beam construction and are probably the most rugged tools on the market. the pick is only B rated, but looks every bit as rugged as the T rated picks on the DMM Fly's and it's held up well for me on mixed routes. Black Diamond laser picks break on cold hard ice. that's a fact, and picks are expensive!
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