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scotto
Jan 4, 2004, 4:13 AM
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I did some climbs this week on Billboard Buttress in Indian Cove and the top/rap anchors left much to be desired. The anchors are for the climbs to the left of and including the Reverend (sorry I forgot their names) and they include two old manky anchors and several pieces of webbing run through a rap ring and an old carabiner. My question is this – why would an area that is constantly being used by guide services and climbers alike have such scetchy top anchors? Why would nobody replace the anchors on such a heavily used climbing spot – and what do you need to do to have them replaced? At the very least you would think that the guides that are on this rock every weekend I have been in Joshua tree not throw down a few bones to replace these anchors. The only other option I saw was to rap of the top anchors to the face climb on the far right side – but these top anchors almost always have climbers on them so you are forced to rap of this piece of junk top anchor.
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murf
Jan 4, 2004, 4:16 AM
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Scott, Are your arms broken? Do you know where a hardward store is? What's keeping you from replacing the webbing at the very least? Try be self sufficient. Murf
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scotto
Jan 4, 2004, 4:23 AM
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easy tiger - I asked how to go about replacing anchors and I was told by the climbing gurus to leave the replacing to those that put them there - or those in charge of the area.
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winglady
Jan 4, 2004, 2:44 PM
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In reply to: I was told by the climbing gurus to leave the replacing to those that put them there - or those in charge of the area. IMHO, if you are climbing there and find something that is unsafe, then you are "in charge of the area" as much as any other climber. This is a National Park, not someone's private property. For guidelines on replacing bolts, take a look at the NPS document at http://www.nps.gov/...s/climbing/bolts.pdf As the document says, "Replacement of unsafe bolts is allowed at any time."
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socalclimber
Jan 4, 2004, 3:33 PM
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The guides out here are usually very good about replacing bad anchors, especially in heavily traveled areas they use. I work for one company on occasion that uses this area allot. I will speak with them and get their opinion. Robert
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boltdude
Jan 4, 2004, 6:48 PM
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The reason local guides haven't replaced those bolts is that it's pretty easy to downclimb to the anchor on the right (as you look at the wall from below). Also, to toprope several of the climbs, a good anchor can be constructed in the horizontal crack about 10' below the top. Bolt replacement is allowed at any time in Josh, but you MUST use a hand drill unless you have a use authorization permit for replacement with a power drill, which are available for any of the non-Wilderness areas (most of the climbing areas). Please email me, address at the ASCA site www.safeclimbing.org, to report bad bolts, anywhere you run into them. I'll try to find someone who can get to those bolts; I won't be down that way this winter (and with the new camping fees, maybe never again...).
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scotto
Jan 5, 2004, 2:58 AM
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It had appeared that the slings on the anchor are either added to or changed frequently. I didn't feel like it was necessary to add more webbing - which I have no problem donating a chunk of webbing for the cause, but I figured that because this was a very heavily used site it should have better anchors. I was not aware of the walk off to the side - I looked for one but nothing looked all that safe and I will either avoid this area or look for a walk off. I was just looking for some insight as to why this situation even exists on a heavily traveled area. - oh yeah and thanks to those of you with serious responses to my question. I wasn't aware of the bolting regulations - that would have been bad to rip up the generator and run a 100' cord to my rotary hammer (I do not own a fancy smanshy rock drill as of yet) on top of the rock huh?
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boltdude
Jan 5, 2004, 3:29 AM
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Oh yeah, if you run across any bad bolts at Josh, there is a small blue "Bad Bolts" notebook among the shop copies of local guides in the Nomad in Joshua Tree (just to the right as you enter the shop). Several locals use that book for bolt replacement recommendations, so note it down there. Greg
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winglady
Jan 5, 2004, 2:52 PM
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Thank you for making us aware of http://www.safeclimbing.org -- I didn't know about the organization until I saw this thread. That seems like a better idea than for every individual climber to take it upon ourselves to go replace an unsafe bolt. I'm guessing a lot of people are like me -- we don't own a drill (power or hand) and we have only a vague understanding of how to properly install a bolt, anyway. Of course, for those out there who do know what you're doing, and know the regulations and ethics of an area, I applaud you for taking care of a potential danger. We've donated hardware and/or money to fellow-climbers who were taking care of things at our local areas. Winglady
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jds100
Jan 5, 2004, 3:42 PM
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jds100 moved this thread from General to US - West Coast.
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epic_ed
Jan 5, 2004, 3:43 PM
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We climbed it over Thanksgiving weekend and agreed that the bolts sucked. All of 'em spinners with thin, rusted hangers and I believe they were SMCs (though they were not the old, yellowish SMCs that are bunk). There were a total of three bolts up there -- two new 3/8in bolts would due as a replacement with the third hole getting filled. We walked across the top to the east and did the hop down to the ledge where the good anchor is located and rapped from there. I think that's what Greg means by "walk off" to the other anchor, and it sounds like that's the same anchor you used to get down. Some may argue that replacing the anchor on top isn't necessary because of the good existing anchor on the east side of the buttress, but we waited nearly a half an hour to rap from that anchor, and when we did, a party of three was forced to wait until we were done in order to climb. I think a replacement anchor is appropriate for the situation, especially since there is already one there. It just needs to be updated. I'll be out there in a couple of weeks and wouldn't mind donating the time and hardware. Greg, I'll contact you for further details. Ed
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roughster
Jan 5, 2004, 4:12 PM
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roughster moved this thread from US - West Coast to Regional Discussions.
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funkmeister
Jan 15, 2004, 5:58 PM
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Hey everyone, read this thread a few days ago, and just saw something interesting in the new climbing Mag. Have you seen the ad for "ARI" Anchor Replacement Initiative. pg. 80 I guess it's an industry-supported prgram that provides tools and hardware to different climbing groups, and their goals are listed as: *Focus on safety, not convenience *respect each climbing area's unique heritage *Upgrade hardware at existing anchors anchors only *use the most enviroment-friendly techniques possible the website is as listed www.climbing.com/ari Just thought I'd mention this to you all.?.?.?
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scotto
Feb 14, 2004, 3:00 AM
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just out of curiosity - has anybody noticed if these bolts have been replaced yet.
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mungeclimber
Feb 14, 2004, 7:03 AM
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Are the mank ones on the top top, or more on the North Side of the formation? I seem to recall watching a guy climb squat rockets or whatever it's called over xmas, and there were Fixe rings on the northish side of the top of the formation (not the chain rap station on the south shoulder of the formation). With a 60m rope it would make it down the West/main face. Anyone else verify the presence of those rings?
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baja_java
Mar 4, 2004, 12:53 AM
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Jose from SD had added webbing and an extra descending ring, so the "rap anchor" is at least redundant now, as of 29 feb 2004. nothing else on top on this side of the BB formation
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epic_ed
Mar 8, 2004, 7:53 AM
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I didn't get a chance to climb it last month to replace them. As far as I know, the old ones are still in place. Ed
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climballnight
Dec 10, 2007, 6:52 PM
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Hi folks. We were up there last Saturday (12/8/07) and the rusty pin (the pin itself is looking more galvanized these days but there are rust markings on the rock around it, possibly just from the hanger) w/ old hanger and the other slightly more trustworthy bolt w/ hanger are still there...cleaned of any webbing or rings though. I generally climb places like Billboard with some extra webbing, quick-links and rings, but I hadn't this time (I planned to lead up and clean on the way down as I rapped to save time) so when I got to the top ill-equipped I had to change my plan. The best plan these days, as others have mentioned, is probably to butt belay (backed up) your second up and then walk South/East and down climbing to the ledge with the stout 3 bolt (and 3 ring!) anchor to rap. If you're a safety hound like me, my partner and I did this by belaying him while he walked over and then down climbed to the anchor, then having him tie in and belay me/spot me while I down climbed to the ledge. It is a pretty easy down climb though, but it was night time and a bit windy so we played it safe. Hopefully this helps people with knowing what to expect when they get up top. Enjoy and be safe! - b
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