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unrooted
Feb 4, 2008, 8:16 PM
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I wrote this for a class, the teacher is somewhat outdoorsy (hiking, xc skiing). I am curious to see what the community thinks.
Rock climbing is a great sport that allows a person to surmount challenges set in natural environments. There is no questioning why this sport is becoming so popular especially among city dwellers that otherwise spend virtually all of their ordered life in an unnatural atmosphere. Having a pet can also relieve the tedium of the unnatural world, so why not bring the two natural aspects of an otherwise artificial life together for the ultimate experience: bring your dog to the crag! The problem is that the popularity of climbing is already overloading many of the sports prime arenas, and dogs are compounding this issue.
Bringing your dog to a climbing destination where only a half dozen climbers can share several dozen routes does not sound like a bad idea until you get there and the other five people have also brought along their special pup. Dog’s often attempt to determine dominance at the first sight of another canine, which can cause loud disturbing fights. Dog feces is not uncommon on trails used by climbers and other user groups. Dogs do not always realize what rope, pack or pair of shoes belongs to its owner, which is even more bothersome when the caretaker is attempting to climb or belay and cannot otherwise attend to the dog’s wandering desires. Many climbers do not leave the dog on a leash which enforces the dog’s right to roam. Dogs may need to exercise and explore the outdoors even more so than humans, but at the expense of others?
Fortunately I live in an area where the ratio of climbers to climbing is small, and rarely do I go to a wall and see more than a few people and rarely more than one dog. In more popular climbing destinations throughout the United States climbers are crowding into small areas bringing the percentage of climbers to routes up. Bringing the dog not only increases the impact on the local surroundings, but increases the tempers of many ‘non-dog’ climbers. I would like to encourage dog owners who climb to think about the many reasons to leave the dog at home. The Access Fund a non profit group that works with land managers to keep climbing areas open has these suggestions for dog owners on their website: “dogs frequently contribute to resource degradation by digging, chewing vegetation, and chasing wildlife. Users should respect the natural quiet of the area and strive to Leave No Trace.”
Some of the rules which are already in place at popular climbing destinations include the mandatory use of leashes, and cleaning up or burying dog waste. But that does not directly improve on the impact dogs are having on other users so I would suggest the implementation of these possible policy’s; alternating days or even weeks of non dog use, dog only areas (possibly rotating throughout the destination every day), or a limit on the number of dogs allowed into an area.
One way to evaluate the impact dogs are having on climbing areas would be through the use of polls taken by all the users in the region. The users and the local land managers should come together to decide what obligatory system is best to prevent damage to the terrain and almost importantly the experience of the user. The land managers should already know what distress each user, including pets, is having on the vegetation and the use of polls, even through conversation, can determine any negative influence that pets may be causing to the many users. This way would involve more than just a biased government official or agency determining who and what are allowed into the particular climbing area.
If I had the opportunity to make a decision on dog regulations as the grand master of the climbing universe I would ban all dogs who greet another dog or a person with anything more aggressive than a wave of a tail near the crags. I enjoy dogs, just not packs, or dogs that cause unnecessary destruction to the landscapes surrounding the places I spend my time climbing, camping and hiking, therefore I can’t make a hard line stance on the prohibition of dogs in climbing areas because fortunately not all dogs are alike.
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styndall
Feb 4, 2008, 8:27 PM
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I teach freshman comp at a big state school, and this is what I see right away:
unrooted wrote: Bringing your dog to a climbing destination where only a half dozen climbers can share several dozen routes does not sound like a bad idea until you get there and the other five people have also brought along their special pup s.
Unless the five share a single dog, you need a plural.
In reply to: Dog’s often attempt to determine dominance at the first sight of another canine, which can cause loud disturbing fights.
Watch your apostrophes.
In reply to: Dog feces is not uncommon on trails used by climbers and other user groups.
Use "common" instead of "not uncommon."
In reply to: Dogs do not always realize what rope, pack or pair of shoes belongs to its owner, which is even more bothersome when the caretaker is attempting to climb or belay and cannot otherwise attend to the dog’s wandering desires.
Your pronouns disagree in number.
In reply to: Many climbers do not leave the dog on a leash which enforces the dog’s right to roam.
Do you really mean "right?" Do dogs have rights? Would "tendency" be better, maybe?
In reply to: Dogs may need to exercise and explore the outdoors even more so than humans, but at the expense of others?
Kill the "so" here, and consider rephrasing your sentence to avoid a funny-sounding question.
If you've got a chance to revise this beast, get to it.
That said, I agree with you. Crag dogs should be converted to yard dogs. I've had too many sandwiches eaten by random, wandering mutts.
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exostratics
Feb 4, 2008, 8:28 PM
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I'm interested in hearing some replies to this as well as I have been wondering the etiquette of bringing a dog tot he crag.
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unrooted
Feb 4, 2008, 8:39 PM
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styndall:
Thanks, It is amazing that I received an A in both of the required english classes for college. Thank goodness (for me) utards don't require much from their students. I've been told that I write well; for an engineering student.
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dingus
Feb 4, 2008, 8:45 PM
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unrooted wrote: I've been told that I write well; for an engineering student.
I hope your buildings don't fall down!
DMT
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olderic
Feb 4, 2008, 8:48 PM
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I think you would have a better paper if you did a global replace of "dog" with "Frenchman".
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slapslompers
Feb 4, 2008, 8:56 PM
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In response to thepost inquiring about dog etiquette, my best advice is as follows: Just don't. That would be be the best way to handle it. However, since there isn't much chance that anyone who owns and loves a dog will follow that advice (not that i blame them, I love my dog and i occasionally bring it to DESOLATE, EMPTY climbing areas) I will ask that before you decide to haul your mutt along, ask yourself these questions:
Is it going to lose its mind when i get too high?
Is it going to sit around and behave or wander?
Does it respond to commands?
Does it bark, at all?
Does it get along with other dogs?
Am I willing to clean up after it?
If you or your dog can't adhere to at least most of these, then you need to consider plans for the keeping of your dog when you're out being a rock warrior. Just remember, though it may be awesome and convenient for you to bring pooch along you may well be ruining some elses day.
Nobody minds a well behaved dog. If you have such a hound, bring 'em on. If your dog barks so loud that i can't communicate with my belayer... then please... leave him/her tied to the car.
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sonso45
Feb 4, 2008, 9:03 PM
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I have a dog. I leave her at home mostly, but definitely feel bad when she runs off or steps on folks stuff so I only take her out now when I am hiking and not climbing. Every so often I get to Jack's canyon and it is sometimes overrun with dogs. I don't mind unless it approaches my rope or gear then I shoo it away. This can upset the dog's owner, depending on how much shooing I have to do: voice, stick, rock, in ascending order. If they are concerned then I ask them to leash and control it. I have friends that feel strongly the opposite and let their dogs roam at the crag. They know how I feel and we generally don't climb much in dog mode. It does bother me that people don't clean up the dog mess and control their dogs but what can you do but control your own space at the moment and kick the crap to the side. Land managers can help but it's a tricky thing to get them involved. I like the paper and it should be an A. Try to spread the word, amigo.
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gunkiemike
Feb 4, 2008, 9:08 PM
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unrooted wrote: styndall: Thanks, It is amazing that I received an A in both of the required english classes for college. Thank goodness (for me) utards don't require much from their students. I've been told that I write well; for an engineering student.
I see two capitalization errors in the first sentence and an incorrect semicolon in the last. *I* wouldn't give you an A.
Maybe they curve the grades. Most students I see today have absolutely horrible spelling, grammar, and mechanics.
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shockabuku
Feb 4, 2008, 9:16 PM
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gunkiemike wrote: unrooted wrote: styndall: Thanks, It is amazing that I received an A in both of the required english classes for college. Thank goodness (for me) utards don't require much from their students. I've been told that I write well; for an engineering student. I see two capitalization errors in the first sentence and an incorrect semicolon in the last. *I* wouldn't give you an A. Maybe they curve the grades. Most students I see today have absolutely horrible spelling, grammar, and mechanics.
It's been my experience that "grammar" is inseparable from "absolutely horrible."
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Feb 4, 2008, 9:18 PM)
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kyote321
Feb 4, 2008, 10:13 PM
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i always take my dogs to the crag. they well-behaved and other climbers actully request that they come along and miss them when they aren't. also, no one seems to climb outdoors in new mexico anymore, so crowds aren't a problem.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Feb 4, 2008, 10:56 PM
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unrooted wrote: styndall: Thanks, It is amazing that I received an A in both of the required english classes for college. Thank goodness (for me) utards don't require much from their students. I've been told that I write well; for an engineering student.
The ironing is of course that Engineers actually do a fair amount of writing in their career. Perhaps they don't do it well, but they do have to do it.
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kachoong
Feb 4, 2008, 11:07 PM
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Sounds like a decent article... good job.
Admittedly I clicked on the thread thinking it was going to be about Dog sh!t and Dunny paper.... cleaning up after your dog.
The best behaved crag dog I've seen is J_ung's... Louis is a good crag guide.
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styndall
Feb 4, 2008, 11:11 PM
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: unrooted wrote: styndall: Thanks, It is amazing that I received an A in both of the required english classes for college. Thank goodness (for me) utards don't require much from their students. I've been told that I write well; for an engineering student. The ironing is of course that Engineers actually do a fair amount of writing in their career. Perhaps they don't do it well, but they do have to do it.
If this is intentional, it's pretty funny. Actually, it's funny regardless.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Feb 4, 2008, 11:18 PM
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styndall wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: unrooted wrote: styndall: Thanks, It is amazing that I received an A in both of the required english classes for college. Thank goodness (for me) utards don't require much from their students. I've been told that I write well; for an engineering student. The ironing is of course that Engineers actually do a fair amount of writing in their career. Perhaps they don't do it well, but they do have to do it. If this is intentional, it's pretty funny. Actually, it's funny irregardless.
Fixed that for you.
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altelis
Feb 5, 2008, 12:09 AM
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irregardless is my most favoritess non-word ever!!!!!!
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redsox5945
Feb 5, 2008, 12:15 AM
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At my crag, climbers' dogs are not usually the problem. The general public wanders around the foot of the cliffs, watching the climbing. I was belaying a TR once, flaking rope onto a tarp, and an unleashed dog bounded over, slobbering all over the brand new rope. Luckily, he didn't bite it, but it pissed me off anyways.
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caughtinside
Feb 5, 2008, 12:35 AM
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Arrogant_Bastard wrote: styndall wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: unrooted wrote: styndall: Thanks, It is amazing that I received an A in both of the required english classes for college. Thank goodness (for me) utards don't require much from their students. I've been told that I write well; for an engineering student. The ironing is of course that Engineers actually do a fair amount of writing in their career. Perhaps they don't do it well, but they do have to do it. If this is intentional, it's pretty funny. Actually, it's funny irregardless. Fixed that for you.
damn. I wanted that won.
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Fenst
Feb 5, 2008, 12:37 AM
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What kind of person would leave their dog tied to their car/truck. I've seen an old woman non-climber untie a dog that a climber left to bake in the sun (with water) and walked off with it. I thought it was the right thing to do at the time so I didn't say anything. As for dogs at the crag, they don't belong. And for dogs at the climbing gym, they don't belong either. I've got into the habit of looking down and around before I dismount a bouldering problem when dogs are at the gym. It definately makes me quiver the thought of breaking a dogs back landing on it while at the gym. Dog problems have also become a hot topic among long distance hiking communities. The PCT,AT,and CDT are magnets for hiikers with dogs. In my eyes, they impact the environment and scare away what I am mainly out there for....enjoying nature.
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redsox5945
Feb 5, 2008, 12:40 AM
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Jesus, has the whole world gone to hell? Who brings their dog to a gym? (No offense, dog lovers)
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Arrogant_Bastard
Feb 5, 2008, 12:45 AM
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caughtinside wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: styndall wrote: Arrogant_Bastard wrote: unrooted wrote: styndall: Thanks, It is amazing that I received an A in both of the required english classes for college. Thank goodness (for me) utards don't require much from their students. I've been told that I write well; for an engineering student. The ironing is of course that Engineers actually do a fair amount of writing in their career. Perhaps they don't do it well, but they do have to do it. If this is intentional, it's pretty funny. Actually, it's funny irregardless. Fixed that for you. damn. I wanted that won.
It's a mute point, what's done is done.
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altelis
Feb 5, 2008, 12:47 AM
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wtf? i have a dog, she is very well behaved, chill does her own thing and doesn't tend to bother people.
that said, i understand that not everybody likes dogs. so if i am at a crag where i can't keep her tied up if i'm not alone i don't take her along.
i love my dog; i've had somebody else's dog eat my sandwich and some dude was like "oh, thats blah's dog, she does that all the time"-----if you know you fucked up in training your dog and its a bitch tie the fucker up or leave it at home
all you reckless dog owners truly ruin it for the rest of us. she's a dog, i love her, but she doesn't belong everywhere. and especially not in a gym.
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Fenst
Feb 5, 2008, 3:07 AM
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Dogs are almost always in my gym in Columbus. It's usually at the worst times too...when it's busy. And it's usually the same people who think I am there just to watch them boulder. Why can't some climbers let others boulder when they are bouldering at the gym. Sometimes I feel like I need to take a number just to get in a boulder problem.
P.S. I love dogs...
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climbsomething
Feb 5, 2008, 3:17 AM
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redsox5945 wrote: Jesus, has the whole world gone to hell? Who brings their dog to a gym? (No offense, dog lovers)
(This post was edited by climbsomething on Feb 5, 2008, 3:18 AM)
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werd7
Feb 5, 2008, 7:08 PM
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You forgot one:
Does my dog constantly try to hump other dogs?
All joking aside, the questions slapslompers wrote are very important when considering whether to take your dog to the crag. Dogs at the crag would not be as much of an issue if an owner could answer yes to all of those (except my question above). Fortunately, 90% of the dogs I meet at the crag are well behaved.
It's just a few bad apples and it applies to people as well. A dog barking isn't nearly as annoying as a person spewing unsolicited beta. Dogs don't cake chalk on the rock, chip holds, put crash pads on top of plants, and leave trash at the crag. If your main concern is to preserve nature, then climbing areas should be closed to all people as well. If you're just annoyed by poorly behaved dogs, then take a stand by telling the owner that their dog sucks. It's really that simple.
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