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majid_sabet
Feb 7, 2008, 6:25 AM
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An injured climber's 12-hour wait for rescue from a freezing rock face could have been cut to three had he carried a locator beacon, say rescuers.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4390548a11.html
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norushnomore
Feb 7, 2008, 10:46 AM
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Majid, wrong forum but may be it's time to let it go?
Stop posting for a while, try that thing called climbing?
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skinner
Feb 7, 2008, 12:24 PM
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A locator beacon? like the kinda they use on fish boats?.. climbers carrying EPIRBs, now there's a concept most SAR groups would probably love to see.
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jmvc
Feb 7, 2008, 12:52 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: From the article: In reply to: and weighed "less than a pound of butter" I wonder if thats heavier than, 'less than a pound of feathers'? 
So long as it's not as heavy as a pound of lead..
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rgold
Feb 7, 2008, 1:38 PM
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The rescue was further delayed because the party failed to bring a helicopter along with them.
Don't you just hate it when improperly equipped so-called climbers go into the mountains?
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dingus
Feb 7, 2008, 2:14 PM
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His rescue could have been cut to zero had he the good sense to stay out of the mountains.
DMT
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j_ung
Feb 7, 2008, 3:00 PM
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If you stay out of the mountains and instead take a class on how to rescue others, can you, theoretically, reduce your rescue to negative time?
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durangoclimber
Feb 7, 2008, 3:46 PM
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SELF SUFFICIENY !!!!!
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altelis
Feb 7, 2008, 4:33 PM
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majid,
it strikes me that these types of reports seem to miss the point. miss the point of going out, being self-sufficient and cutting many of the safety-nets that aren't directly related to one's own ability. i can understand and possibly forgive this error on the side of the reporters/public (though it does propagate unnecessary stereotypes of climbers as death-seeking morons)
HOWEVER i would hope that a climber would better understand the desire to be self-sufficient. when i go out i make a conscious decision to NOT bring the latest greatest technology to save my ass. YES, when backcountry skiing i bring a avy beacon-but this is so a member of my own team can help (or i can help them) NOT so that we can call in the calvary when we get in over our heads or something just goes wrong. part of the appeal of the big mountains/big stone is the SELF SUFFICIENCY and the mental state of being willing and able to deal with it when the shit hits the fan.
i understand the public/reporters just not getting it, but climbers do not need to be propogating the myth that we need to be as safe as possible.
majid, cut the umbilical cord-----or keep sport climbing
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Uncia
Feb 7, 2008, 4:41 PM
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Oh beacon. For some reason I read bacon and my mind was in overdrive thinking of all the scenarios where bacon could delay rescue.
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climbingaggie03
Feb 7, 2008, 5:07 PM
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I can see that, the rescuers show up to the snow cave/ledge and the climbers say, "not now, we're cooking some bacon, come back later"
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sgauss
Feb 7, 2008, 5:17 PM
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I think a more likely scenario is the rescue team recommending the climbers cook bacon so they can be guided by the smell!
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climbingaggie03
Feb 7, 2008, 5:26 PM
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Or some under cooked bacon making it's way into the gi tracts of the rescuers, requiring multiple stops on the way to the rescue
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themadmilkman
Feb 7, 2008, 9:23 PM
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I'm honestly beginning to believe that Majid has a vested monetary interest in making climbers carry beacons. I wonder which company he owns stock in?
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static_endurance
Feb 7, 2008, 9:55 PM
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"Beacons cost about 25$ a week to hire..."
You hire beacons? You don't rent or buy anymore?
I just picture a guy following me up the cliff wearing bright orange and carrying an airhorn.
Oh well, so long as he can clean quickly and doesn't mind bringing up the rear every pitch, 25 bucks a week isn't bad for a belay monkey.
And he weighs less than a pound of butter!!
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durangoclimber
Feb 7, 2008, 10:36 PM
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http://durangoherald.com/.../08/news080206_1.htm
Here is a good story about self sufficiency that happened in Durango yesterday. Now keep in mind that this is above our dog park and pretty much as close to downtown Durango as you can get without skiing down main.
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krusher4
Feb 7, 2008, 10:39 PM
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is it safe to cook bacon while using a gri-gri?
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dingus
Feb 7, 2008, 10:42 PM
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climbingaggie03 wrote: I can see that, the rescuers show up to the snow cave/ledge and the climbers say, "not now, we're cooking some bacon, come back later"
When rescuers tried to pluck Warren Harding and Dean Caudwell off the Dawn Wall after day 20 or some such, in the midst of a winter storm, they found the two comfortably ensconsed on a ledge with a big ole bottle of jug wine. The rescue was refused though the interpid pair did offer the would-ve saviors a glass of white.
True.
Paraphrasing someone: A rescue is not needed, not wanted and will not be accepted.
They finished the route like 7 days later to the biggst media frenzy the top of El Cap has ever known.
DMT
http://www.climbing.com/...es/batso/index5.html
We follow in some STERN FOOTSTEPS!
(This post was edited by dingus on Feb 7, 2008, 10:47 PM)
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durangoclimber
Feb 7, 2008, 11:28 PM
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Being an "auto locking" belay device, I think it would be safe to cook the bacon while belaying with such a device. I wonder if a Reverso set in auto locking mode might suffice as well. Ohhh....wait. What about the grease splatter on the rope. Anyone know if the UIAA has tested rope durability with bacon grease? Yeah, I think I might hold off on bringing the bacon too. Until further study of course.
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MonkeyInTraining
Feb 8, 2008, 12:31 AM
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Ok, selfish people, here is the deal. If you live in a country were people will risk their own lives to save yours then dont be blaming your own will to live on them. Get a damn beacon and dont friggen use it unless people are out flying around burning our tax dollars looking for your selfish ass. Or dont get one and just dont worry about it.
This isnt a question of if you are hard enough or if you need it, its a matter of showing a tiny lil bit of respect for the people you live on this planet with. If you think you dont need those people, you know the ones that make towns and citys function (oh yeah and some make climbing gear), then just kill yourself now so we dont have to look for your selfish ass later. Or move to some country that has no search and rescue so you can play hard guy. It will last untill you can actualy see your death there in front of you, then you will cry like a baby for that beacon.
None of you that suggest you would scoff at it and just die in the wild have ever seen your own death coming right at you and just by some dumb luck survived, or you would not have the desire to leave it to luck. Idiots, inexperianced selfish idiots.
OK not that said, no one should be required or anything, but friggen STFU and let others be if its just not your thing.
I would not use one, but I am not so niave to think I wouldnt regret if I was dieing on some ledge. Get real.
Edit: that jsut wasnt enough rant to get it out of my system so AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH STFU EVERYONE YOU ALL PISS ME OFF SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(This post was edited by MonkeyInTraining on Feb 8, 2008, 12:36 AM)
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majid_sabet
Feb 8, 2008, 12:34 AM
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When you are trying to wonder in to wilderness, you take the initial step on your own to go out there
Your permission to return home successfully in one piece is granted by god.
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j_ung
Feb 8, 2008, 12:54 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: When you are trying to wonder in to wilderness, you take the initial step on your own to go out there Your permission to return home successfully in one piece is granted by god.
Then why the Hell do I need a beacon?
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altelis
Feb 8, 2008, 6:10 AM
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Monkey In Training, i am NOT saying regret may not pass before my thoughts were I dying on some ledge.
you ARE contradicting yourself. you say: bring one out of respect for the rescuers-----if you dont you will cry in the face of death-----i wouldn't bring one-----you are all idiots for saying you wouldn't bring one.
get a grip and think before you post.
i may very well be stuck and facing my own imminent death. but i would have consciously made a decision to put myself into that position. when i go off on a big alpine climb i leave a climbing itinerary, with any possible deviations, with a friend. this includes a time scale and some buffer time. i've done search and rescue----i have plenty of respect for SAR teams.
and don't judge us without meeting us. i have not stared death in the eyes, but i have been in some pretty hairy situations. situations in which it wasn't immediately clear that i or a team member would get out alive. and i never for a second regretted not carrying more than i had on me.
you are conflating the issues of regret and an ethical stance made by not taking a beacon.
chillax, think about why you are so damned pissed that you are posting internally incoherent and paradoxical statements. why does this bother you so much?
alex
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wyoclimb
Feb 8, 2008, 5:43 PM
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Imagine snow so deep and dangerous that deer have to be pulled out of the snow avalanches. Roads closed for days. I don't leave the valley floor without my transciever (avalanche beacon).
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