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amy
Feb 18, 2008, 2:54 PM
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so over the weekend the cable on my red alien snapped when my partner took a fall on the fourth pitch of selaginella in the valley. it is not one of the dimpled aliens (the mark they said to look for in the recall.) he has a badly sprained ankle and broken toe, and we had a wretched descent as we bailed. has anyone else had a non-dimpled alien break? i knew about the recall, but really didn't pay much attention to it, as none of my aliens were dimpled and most of them had taken some good falls. are they still reimbursing people? (Phil Box edited title to reflect that the cable did not break but rather the trigger wire broke, please refer to the latter half of the thread for clarification.)
(This post was edited by philbox on Feb 20, 2008, 11:48 PM)
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j_ung
Feb 18, 2008, 3:03 PM
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amy wrote: so over the weekend the cable on my red alien snapped when my partner took a fall on the fourth pitch of selaginella in the valley. it is not one of the dimpled aliens (the mark they said to look for in the recall.) he has a badly sprained ankle and broken toe, and we had a wretched descent as we bailed. has anyone else had a non-dimpled alien break? i knew about the recall, but really didn't pay much attention to it, as none of my aliens were dimpled and most of them had taken some good falls. are they still reimbursing people? If this isn't a troll, I'm sure there are plenty of folks on here who'd like to know when you bought the Alien and what the numbers say on it, and see pictures of it. Until that happens, you're probably going to be accused of all manner of lying. Also, if this isn't a troll, your friend may have just paid a price for not paying attention.
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shoo
Feb 18, 2008, 3:06 PM
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1. Dear god not again. 2. Report everything you know about the break to CCH immediately. 3. Lots of people have had non-recalled (dimpled) aliens break. Do a search. I've pasted one thread of interest below. http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; 4. What exactly on your cable break? Did the cable itself snap or did it separate from the head? Pictures?
(This post was edited by shoo on Feb 18, 2008, 3:08 PM)
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caughtinside
Feb 18, 2008, 3:23 PM
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amy wrote: so over the weekend the cable on my red alien snapped when my partner took a fall on the fourth pitch of selaginella in the valley. it is not one of the dimpled aliens (the mark they said to look for in the recall.) he has a badly sprained ankle and broken toe, and we had a wretched descent as we bailed. has anyone else had a non-dimpled alien break? i knew about the recall, but really didn't pay much attention to it, as none of my aliens were dimpled and most of them had taken some good falls. are they still reimbursing people? Holy crap amy! Really sorry to hear that!! That would be a super shitty spot to bail from. Was it from that lieback just above the belay? Do you guys still have all the pieces of the alien?
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moose_droppings
Feb 18, 2008, 3:41 PM
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j_ung wrote: Also, if this isn't a troll, your friend may have just paid a price for not paying attention. Its hard to believe there are climbers out there that still aren't checking their aliens.
amy wrote: i knew about the recall, but really didn't pay much attention to it Its even harder to believe that someone knows about it and doesn't pay enough attention to check their life saving equipment. Its scary that people don't know that its not just the dimpled ones either. I sorry to hear about your friend and glad he's OK.
(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Feb 18, 2008, 3:42 PM)
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drjghl
Feb 18, 2008, 4:02 PM
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Sorry to hear about your friend's accident. And thanks for posting. This type of information is critical to the public. As an aside, I climbed with Aliens for about seven years solid. WAS the best finger sized cam made. Unfortunately, the ones made recently have safety issues and I've basically shelved my Aliens and now climb with BD's. Photo of damaged cam please?
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jt512
Feb 18, 2008, 4:16 PM
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shoo wrote: 2. Report everything you know about the break to CCH immediately. Why? Jay
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bobruef
Feb 18, 2008, 4:22 PM
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Well, sounds like another post-recall failure to add to the list. I'll hold out for a little better evidence before I update this, however, I don't think there's much confusion at this point about who to give the benefit of the doubt to. From back when I had time to keep up w/ all of the CCH shinanegans:
bobruef wrote: billcoe_ wrote: Holy F*en shit. !!! Wow, I'm really getting tired of having to update this. In another thread, I compiled a list of Alien failures documented here and on supertopo (from a quick search and memory). I'm reposting it here for those who've not been following the whole messy saga from the begining. For those of you counting, that brings the number of documented failures/faulty cams to 11 (by my count... please someone correct me if my info is wrong or incomplete). I don't want to be alarmist, but I believe this is important information for those who are not aware of the previous failures/production mistakes. The list: Again, If the threads I linked here aren't the best sources, or my descriptions are innacurate, somebody please post up a correction. Two Tensile tested Aliens fail 1100 and 1200 lbs (at the braze) http://www.supertopo.com/...id=379659&tn=220 Resivoir Wall non-dimpled post recall Purple Alien Failure http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=1593796;#1593796 5/15/7 Non-dimpled Blue Alien fails at 900lbs when tested by Russ Walling http://www.rockclimbing.com/...2;page=unread#unread Souders Crack 11d groundfall (broken cable, non dimpled, post recall)http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=groundfall;#1585733 Faulty Swage (post recall) http://www.rockclimbing.com/...n%20failure;#1316820 Dimpled Orange Alien Braze Failure at Indian Creek (the cam that started the recall) http://www.rockclimbing.com/...n%20failure;#1277756 Gray Alien braze failure (2005, pre-recall) http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Non dimpled Paradise Forks Orange Alien bodyweight braze failure (post-recall) http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Misdrilled Axle Holes (rei recall thread) http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Tradrenn's oddly sized alien (deleted post)tradrenn wrote: Just the other day I was inspecting my gear ( OK I was bored and had nothing better to do with my time ) and after looking at my Aliens I have discover a little problem with my Yellow ones ( I have to of them ) The problem is that one Yellow Alien has a proper range of Yellow Alien, like it should. Second Yellow Alien has a range of Grey Alien. Difference between Yellow and Grey size range is not that much so it is just a minor inconvenience ( got to get some grey electrical tape ) Here are some picks for you people. The height of good lobe on yellow alien ( 0.508" ) The length of good lobe on yellow alien ( 0.709" ) The height of lobe on grey alien ( 0.553" ) The length of lobe on grey alien ( 0.774" ) The height of lobe on "bad" yellow alien ( 0.553 ) The length of lobe on "bad yellow alien ( 0.773" ) Range of yellow alien ( 0.698" ) (notice the yellow sling ) Range of grey alien ( 0.760" ) (notice the grey sling ) Range of "bad" yellow alien ( 0.761" ) (notice the yellow sling ) So, here is a little heads up for some of you that are getting into Aliens or buying more Aliens.
(This post was edited by bobruef on Feb 18, 2008, 4:24 PM)
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shoo
Feb 18, 2008, 4:35 PM
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jt512 wrote: shoo wrote: 2. Report everything you know about the break to CCH immediately. Why? Jay I have a vain hope that CCH may take responsibility for their horrible quality control if enough people can prove it. If it were BD, OP, or Petzl, I'd send them everything I had including the cam itself for examination. Given, these companies have all been relatively responsible compared to CCH when they make some kind of manufacturing mistake. I'd just hope that CCH might do the same one day.
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robdotcalm
Feb 18, 2008, 4:53 PM
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shoo wrote: jt512 wrote: shoo wrote: 2. Report everything you know about the break to CCH immediately. Why? Jay I have a vain hope that CCH may take responsibility for their horrible quality control if enough people can prove it. If it were BD, OP, or Petzl, I'd send them everything I had including the cam itself for examination. Given, these companies have all been relatively responsible compared to CCH when they make some kind of manufacturing mistake. I'd just hope that CCH might do the same one day. Unfortunately, these days Petzl does not seem to be a fast (or anything) responder to problems associated with their equipment. See the thread petzl rope rob.calm
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shoo
Feb 18, 2008, 5:02 PM
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robdotcalm wrote: Unfortunately, these days Petzl does not seem to be a fast (or anything) responder to problems associated with their equipment. See the thread petzl rope rob.calm Eric_at_Petzl did actually post on that thread. While they didn't suggest (or admit if you believe otherwise) that there was a widespread problem, they did the responsible thing and asked people to contact them if there were issues. Keeping in contact with our gear manufacturers is one of the best ways we can encourage safety and innovation in our gear.
(This post was edited by shoo on Feb 18, 2008, 5:02 PM)
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zeke_sf
Feb 18, 2008, 5:24 PM
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j_ung wrote: amy wrote: so over the weekend the cable on my red alien snapped when my partner took a fall on the fourth pitch of selaginella in the valley. it is not one of the dimpled aliens (the mark they said to look for in the recall.) he has a badly sprained ankle and broken toe, and we had a wretched descent as we bailed. has anyone else had a non-dimpled alien break? i knew about the recall, but really didn't pay much attention to it, as none of my aliens were dimpled and most of them had taken some good falls. are they still reimbursing people? If this isn't a troll, I'm sure there are plenty of folks on here who'd like to know when you bought the Alien and what the numbers say on it, and see pictures of it. Until that happens, you're probably going to be accused of all manner of lying. Also, if this isn't a troll, your friend may have just paid a price for not paying attention. CI and I personally know and climb with Amy and we know that she is somebody who is psyched on climbing and very unlikely to be a troll. I don't think her claims shouldn't be examined critically, but I know to a certainty she is not one to construct a malicious story. That said, I hope you and your partner are doing alright, Amy! Sorry to hear the descent sucked. Was it worse than doing the RA descent with one 60m?
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amy
Feb 18, 2008, 6:37 PM
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thanks zeke and ci for your support...if someone can tell me how to attatch a photo, i will. i've never added one to a post. when i said i didn't pay too much attention to the recall, i looked to see that mine were not dimpled, and i knew that six out of my nine had taken major falls. when i saw mine were not marked, and i knew they had been fallen on, they seemed solid. i have way more confidence in them than my trangos that seem to perpetually have frayed trigger wires. anyway, i don't want this to turn into some horrid rc post where people sit and blast each other for being stupid or not agreeing with their opinion- i was just trying to share some information so anyone else who climbs with aliens can make an informed choice on how safe they are.
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majid_sabet
Feb 18, 2008, 6:48 PM
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Post photos please
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reno
Feb 18, 2008, 6:49 PM
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amy wrote: thanks zeke and ci for your support...if someone can tell me how to attatch a photo, i will. i've never added one to a post. Amy: First, glad to hear this accident wasn't worse than it was, and that everyone is (more or less) OK. To attach a picture, when you type your post there will be a spot below the text box where it says "Attachment:" Click "Browse" to the right of that, find and select the file you want, then click "Upload attachment." There is a size limit, though, so it's advisable to use lower resolution images. If your file is too big, it'll tell you. PM me if you need more help.
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shockabuku
Feb 18, 2008, 6:54 PM
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(This post was edited by shockabuku on Feb 18, 2008, 6:55 PM)
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stymingersfink
Feb 18, 2008, 7:03 PM
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reno wrote: amy wrote: thanks zeke and ci for your support...if someone can tell me how to attatch a photo, i will. i've never added one to a post. Amy: First, glad to hear this accident wasn't worse than it was, and that everyone is (more or less) OK. To attach a picture, when you type your post there will be a spot below the text box where it says "Attachment:" Click "Browse" to the right of that, find and select the file you want, then click "Upload attachment." There is a size limit, though, so it's advisable to use lower resolution images. If your file is too big, it'll tell you. PM me if you need more help. just as easy, with no need to resize (it does it for you automatically) is to use a site like http://www.Photobucket.com, then just include a link in your post surrounded by the [image] your pic's url here [/image] image tags. Edit to add: here are the photos she includes later in the thread: read the rest of the thread before replying, however.
(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Feb 19, 2008, 4:02 AM)
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healyje
Feb 18, 2008, 7:33 PM
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shoo wrote: I have a vain hope that CCH may take responsibility for their horrible quality control if enough people can prove it. Hey we are way, way past that point - CCH needs to shutdown. We have three years of 'proof' here on RC that CCH bailed hard long ago shifting responsibility for QC and safety onto each of us. Wake the f#ck up people! Pay attention: being non-dimpled or being sent in and stamped 'tensile tested' by CCH doesn't mean squat. Either personally test all Aliens mad 10/04 on or trash them.
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Nnorthwall
Feb 18, 2008, 7:56 PM
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Aliens problem is burning 7 x 19 Stemcable (133 pcs fine wire) on the silver soldering process. Silver solder melting 1250 degree F and no heat control on the brazing process. Over heat will burn the stem cable in second that is why aliens strength shows every where (900 lbs, 1100 lbs, 1200 lbs and 2600 lbs). Stem cale should break at middle of the stem instead of snap at cable fitting. Wild country and Metolius using 7 x 7 stemcable (49pcs heavy wire). It is safe to Silver soldering process because heavy wire takes more heat. Cheers
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needlzdos
Feb 18, 2008, 8:31 PM
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So, is there anyone that will pull test aliens other than CCH? I asked Russ Walling (fish products) and he said he wouldn't do it (didn't have the proper puller). Also, aliens are UIAA certified now. http://www.theuiaa.org/safety_labels_mandetails.php?ID=36 So are they really testing everything properly now? (please limit responses to someone who actually knows something and not wild spewing, which is unhelpful)
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healyje
Feb 18, 2008, 8:45 PM
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needlzdos wrote: So, is there anyone that will pull test aliens other than CCH? I asked Russ Walling (fish products) and he said he wouldn't do it (didn't have the proper puller). Also, aliens are UIAA certified now. http://www.theuiaa.org/safety_labels_mandetails.php?ID=36 So are they really testing everything properly now? They can claim anything they want - they are still cranking out Aliens you can have zero faith in. I mean, at this point in the game it's getting completely ludicrous. Exactly how many post-recall - post-recall - 'tensile tested' and non-dimpled Aliens have to fail before the obvious sinks in to even the most oblivious climber? If it hasn't after yet another 'my alien broke' thread you probably shouldn't be trad climbing.
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bobruef
Feb 18, 2008, 8:53 PM
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healyje wrote: needlzdos wrote: So, is there anyone that will pull test aliens other than CCH? I asked Russ Walling (fish products) and he said he wouldn't do it (didn't have the proper puller). Also, aliens are UIAA certified now. http://www.theuiaa.org/safety_labels_mandetails.php?ID=36 So are they really testing everything properly now? They can claim anything they want - they are still cranking out Aliens you can have zero faith in. I mean, at this point in the game it's getting completely ludicrous. Exactly how many post-recall - post-recall - 'tensile tested' and non-dimpled Aliens have to fail before the obvious sinks in to even the most oblivious climber? If it hasn't after yet another 'my alien broke' thread you probably shouldn't be trad climbing. Outside of these boards, this knowledge is not ubiquitous. Even here, a lot of people don't seem to be aware of the number of incidents both pre and post recall, not to mention the non-braze related shenanigans. And we're just talking about folks that self-report on supertopo and here. I know many a climber that ventures onto neither site.
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dominic7
Feb 18, 2008, 8:56 PM
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Nnorthwall wrote: Aliens problem is burning 7 x 19 Stemcable (133 pcs fine wire) on the silver soldering process. Silver solder melting 1250 degree F and no heat control on the brazing process. Over heat will burn the stem cable in second that is why aliens strength shows every where (900 lbs, 1100 lbs, 1200 lbs and 2600 lbs). Stem cale should break at middle of the stem instead of snap at cable fitting. Wild country and Metolius using 7 x 7 stemcable (49pcs heavy wire). It is safe to Silver soldering process because heavy wire takes more heat. Cheers That's pretty interesting. Any idea what wire BD uses?
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angry
Feb 18, 2008, 8:59 PM
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healyje wrote: needlzdos wrote: So, is there anyone that will pull test aliens other than CCH? I asked Russ Walling (fish products) and he said he wouldn't do it (didn't have the proper puller). Also, aliens are UIAA certified now. http://www.theuiaa.org/safety_labels_mandetails.php?ID=36 So are they really testing everything properly now? They can claim anything they want - they are still cranking out Aliens you can have zero faith in. I mean, at this point in the game it's getting completely ludicrous. Exactly how many post-recall - post-recall - 'tensile tested' and non-dimpled Aliens have to fail before the obvious sinks in to even the most oblivious climber? If it hasn't after yet another 'my alien broke' thread you probably shouldn't be trad climbing. Every time you fall on an alien, healyje punches an orphan!!! Please think of the orphans. For what it's worth, I don't see how anything is different today after another failure than it was yesterday when we didn't know about it. The cam was likely made post 10/04 but isn't brand spanking new. That means it's in the possible failure time. This is going to happen every few months until there are none in that era left. Face it, not everyone reads the internet. What makes it worse is that many trad climbers don't fall or very rarely do so they have no idea whether their stuff is OK. It's easy to assume that since their gear is starting to look old and has a lot of miles that it's ok. Truth is, it's never held more than it's own weight. I browse the internet searching for pre 10/04 aliens and have more than I need at the moment so this really doesn't affect me a bit. I just really like the picture I made.
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