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rockostronghold
Feb 29, 2008, 5:48 PM
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I'm thinking about picking up some trango ballnutz to replace the small cams on my rack. (# 3, 4 and 5)
I've never placed them before and was wondering what other peoples experience is with them, specifically in limestone.
Thanks.
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greatgarbanzo
Feb 29, 2008, 6:11 PM
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I have taken some huge falls on small gear in limestone... allmost never holds. It has to be the single most perfect piece of limestone you can find. I would rather go with a piece of gear that expand a little bit more since limestone tends to micro-give a bit.
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the_climber
Feb 29, 2008, 6:26 PM
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Well, BallNuts will expand. It's part of the design.
As for use on limestone... My experience with them in the choss of the Canadian Rockies has been very positive. Though they can't be treated as a typical micro cam as there are certain placement characteristics which must be considered, they do have a place for both free climbing and aid. In limestone I find the holding power (or potential) of small cams is often less than an equivalent BallNut placement, I’ve tested this out thoroughly whilst limestone aid climbing.
As with any small piece of gear know the limitations of both your gear and its placement.
BallNuts are always a welcome addition to my rack when new routing and on established routes. They will be added to my rack soon, but as I have access to them at any point from my partner's rack (who has 2 sets) I haven’t purchased them myself, YET.
Bottom line: Yes they work great on limestone, and I trust a well placed one much more than an equivalent placement with a micro cam. Keep in mind they require a different eye to find the ideal placement, and a different skill set to place properly.
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rockostronghold
Feb 29, 2008, 9:47 PM
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In reply to: Keep in mind they require a different eye to find the ideal placement, and a different skill set to place properly.[
Any tips?? I was thinking they'd place very much like a nut?
what is an ideal placement for ballnutz.
as I say, I've never placed one, but I'd like to get away from cams in that size range.
(This post was edited by rockostronghold on Feb 29, 2008, 10:18 PM)
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John_Long
Mar 2, 2008, 2:30 AM
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Consult Anchors, 2nd Ed. That doesnt look to good, might be better if it took an upward pull.
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ja1484
Mar 2, 2008, 2:50 AM
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John_Long wrote: Consult Anchors, 2nd Ed. That doesnt look to good, might be better if it took an upward pull.
Just wanted to point out that this person is a liar.
The real John Long uses the handle of vivalargo on these boards.
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John_Long
Mar 2, 2008, 3:55 AM
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ja1484 wrote: John_Long wrote: Consult Anchors, 2nd Ed. That doesnt look to good, might be better if it took an upward pull. Just wanted to point out that this person is a liar. The real John Long uses the handle of vivalargo on these boards.
John Long the author is different than Johnston Earl Long (me). I am often confused as him by my name. Sorry to dissapoint
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ja1484
Mar 2, 2008, 3:03 PM
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You might want to make that very clear in your account name. Otherwise, you're headed for gobs of future heartbreak.
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John_Long
Mar 2, 2008, 7:15 PM
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ja1484 wrote: You might want to make that very clear in your account name. Otherwise, you're headed for gobs of future heartbreak.
No need because not many people even read John Long (author) books anyways.
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granite_grrl
Mar 2, 2008, 7:22 PM
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Brenden after Nathan's experience with cam in a parallel crack in limestone I'm wondering what kind of placements you try to use ballnuts?
I don't think they'd be particularly useful for Niagara escarpment climbing. I imagine that that OP is looking at placements that won't take a small nut very well, ie- have very parallel sides. Ballnuts are a little more difficult that cams to get a good stick, and I don't know if I can ever trust a cam in a just parallel sided crack around here again.
(Here's the story of what seemed to be well placed cams in a parallel sided crack in Ontario limestone: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ssy%20talus;#1708704)
Ballnuts can be useful. There is a lot more rock that they'd do well in around the N.East in the United States, so they won't go to waste if you buy them but don't like them for this area. But I, personally, am hesitant to recommend them for free climbing along the escarpment.
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ja1484
Mar 2, 2008, 8:00 PM
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John_Long wrote: ja1484 wrote: You might want to make that very clear in your account name. Otherwise, you're headed for gobs of future heartbreak. No need because not many people even read John Long (author) books anyways.
Yeah, he's a faceless man in the crowd...I hope for your sake you're being facetious in an attempt to retain your trolling ability.
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shockabuku
Mar 2, 2008, 8:56 PM
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John_Long wrote: ja1484 wrote: You might want to make that very clear in your account name. Otherwise, you're headed for gobs of future heartbreak. No need because not many people even read John Long (author) books anyways.
More pertinent would be to write something useful, sincere, or intelligent. (well, this is rc.com, so at least occassionally)
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Mar 2, 2008, 9:07 PM)
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rockostronghold
Mar 2, 2008, 9:25 PM
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I guess I'm really interested in what makes you say "oooo, thats a really good ballnut placement. What are you looking at when you go for the ballnuts as opposed to another piece of gear of equivalent size.
nice link, Phillygoat thanks, I like useful replies.
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John_Long
Mar 2, 2008, 9:55 PM
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shockabuku wrote: John_Long wrote: ja1484 wrote: You might want to make that very clear in your account name. Otherwise, you're headed for gobs of future heartbreak. No need because not many people even read John Long (author) books anyways. More pertinent would be to write something useful, sincere, or intelligent. (well, this is rc.com, so at least occassionally)
I can see your points. You are the one making it an issue. Im simply providing input. If someone asks if Im THE John Long then I will promptly reply, "No. Im Not."
Back to the Nuts
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John_Long
Mar 2, 2008, 10:21 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: John_Long wrote: You are the one making it an issue. You mean besides the people that were already questioning your validity in the "bolting cracks" thread that has since been trashed....!? 
Mods deleted the thread because they cant handle
1) Someone with the same name as John Long
2) Someone with the same name as John Long wanting to write a book.
The name is popular, and writing is popular.
Your mom goes to college, so you can suck it.
(This post was edited by John_Long on Mar 2, 2008, 10:22 PM)
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sbaclimber
Mar 2, 2008, 10:26 PM
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John_Long wrote: sbaclimber wrote: John_Long wrote: You are the one making it an issue. You mean besides the people that were already questioning your validity in the "bolting cracks" thread that has since been trashed....!? Mods deleted the thread because they cant handle 1) Someone with the same name as John Long 2) Someone with the same name as John Long wanting to write a book. The name is popular, and writing is popular. Your mom goes to college, so you can suck it.
John_Long wrote: Research has proven that quickdraws with gates opposite and opposed do not necessarily need to take upward forces.
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John_Long
Mar 2, 2008, 10:29 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: John_Long wrote: sbaclimber wrote: John_Long wrote: You are the one making it an issue. You mean besides the people that were already questioning your validity in the "bolting cracks" thread that has since been trashed....!? Mods deleted the thread because they cant handle 1) Someone with the same name as John Long 2) Someone with the same name as John Long wanting to write a book. The name is popular, and writing is popular. Your mom goes to college, so you can suck it. Hehe....look at this other gem I just found: John_Long wrote: Research has proven that quickdraws with gates opposite and opposed do not necessarily need to take upward forces. Is this kind of like the sound of one hand clapping???
These are not relevant. Stay on topic. Thank You.
Thank God Im Exempt From English Language.
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sbaclimber
Mar 2, 2008, 10:40 PM
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rockostronghold wrote: I guess I'm really interested in what makes you say "oooo, thats a really good ballnut placement. What are you looking at when you go for the ballnuts as opposed to another piece of gear of equivalent size. nice link, Phillygoat thanks, I like useful replies.
I can't say I've placed ballnuts in limestone before, but have been severely tempted at times. I think some limestones would be plenty hard to hold the placement, but you would want to watch out for greasy cracks...
What makes me really happy with a loweball placement is when I give it a good tug, and it doesn't move, at all! It kind of has that solid sound and feel to it too, just like a really good wire placement.
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John_Long
Mar 2, 2008, 10:45 PM
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sbaclimber wrote: rockostronghold wrote: I guess I'm really interested in what makes you say "oooo, thats a really good ballnut placement. What are you looking at when you go for the ballnuts as opposed to another piece of gear of equivalent size. nice link, Phillygoat thanks, I like useful replies. Sorry for the thread-drift above... I can't say I've placed ballnuts in limestone before, but have been severely tempted at times. I think some limestones would be plenty hard to hold the placement, but you would want to watch out for greasy cracks... What makes me really happy with a loweball placement is when I give it a good tug, and it doesn't move, at all! It kind of has that solid sound and feel to it too, just like a really good wire placement.
You are an inconsiderate dipshit who fails to recognize UPWARD FORCES. S m D !
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the_climber
Mar 3, 2008, 12:12 AM
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granite_grrl wrote: Brenden after Nathan's experience with cam in a parallel crack in limestone I'm wondering what kind of placements you try to use ballnuts? I don't think they'd be particularly useful for Niagara escarpment climbing. I imagine that that OP is looking at placements that won't take a small nut very well, ie- have very parallel sides. Ballnuts are a little more difficult that cams to get a good stick, and I don't know if I can ever trust a cam in a just parallel sided crack around here again. (Here's the story of what seemed to be well placed cams in a parallel sided crack in Ontario limestone: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ssy%20talus;#1708704) Ballnuts can be useful. There is a lot more rock that they'd do well in around the N.East in the United States, so they won't go to waste if you buy them but don't like them for this area. But I, personally, am hesitant to recommend them for free climbing along the escarpment.
Bec, your right about cams in parallel Limestone cracks... bad idea. I would never treat a cam in the same way on granite or quartzite or some other rock the same as I treat cams in limestone. I tried that once and got burner (ie. I cratered bad and hard). Ballnuts are a completely different skill then cams, as different as tricams and TCU's, but I still feel ballnuts have a place in freeclimbing. Honestly in limestone you typically need a slight constriction or a prominent irregularity in the crack that will match the shape of a cam or ballnut for me to even trust small gear in limestone. It's just the nature of the beast.
Lucky for me there are very few truly parallel cracks in my neck of the woods, even when you consider the back of the lake.
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granite_grrl
Mar 3, 2008, 1:40 AM
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the_climber wrote: Honestly in limestone you typically need a slight constriction or a prominent irregularity in the crack that will match the shape of a cam or ballnut for me to even trust small gear in limestone. It's just the nature of the beast.
That's what I was thinking/hoping. Yes, it is key to find those little divots for both cams and ballnuts. I'm just thinking about the gear climbs I've done along the escarpment, and the times that I've wanted smaller gear like a ballnut is normally because the crack is fairly parallel and a small nut simply won't stick.
Truthfully, I don't know if I can say I've lead a true parallel crack. I will also say that I'm rusty with the local gear climbing on limestone, so perhaps I'm wrong about the ballnut placements. I haven't done much around here since my accident (not that I still don't love trad climbing, its just that I prefer to travel to places where its a little more enjoyable for me).
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rockostronghold
Mar 3, 2008, 3:11 AM
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I'd love to see a photo of a perfectly placed ballnut.
Does anyone have one?
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LoweBall_small.JPG
1
