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petsfed
May 16, 2008, 2:51 PM
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I've heard that it's considered poor style to stem or yard on trees when you're sport climbing or bouldering, but what about trad climbing? If the terrain's vegetated is it bad style to grab a tree or two on the way up?
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petsfed
May 16, 2008, 2:52 PM
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This is seriously the second fucking time some random road tripper has posted instead of me. Goddamn it.
You fucking freeloaders are using up a good thing here.
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Gmburns2000
May 16, 2008, 3:00 PM
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petsfed wrote: This is seriously the second fucking time some random road tripper has posted instead of me. Goddamn it. You fucking freeloaders are using up a good thing here.
WTF?
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chadnsc
May 16, 2008, 3:14 PM
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I think 'petsfed' is letting some climbers stay at his shack and these people are using his computer and posting under his name.
(This post was edited by chadnsc on May 16, 2008, 3:15 PM)
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shrug7
May 16, 2008, 3:36 PM
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yup...
do'h...
Petsfed, ya might want to consider give'em their own login to your computer. or just shut them off. since when do freeloaders need internet access anyway 
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chadnsc
May 16, 2008, 3:40 PM
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Even freeloaders need porn. 
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shrug7
May 16, 2008, 3:41 PM
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Touche'...
What about analog porn...?
(This post was edited by shrug7 on May 16, 2008, 3:42 PM)
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docburner
May 16, 2008, 4:54 PM
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posts are 1 minute apart I vote for troll
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forkliftdaddy
May 16, 2008, 4:57 PM
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scotchie wrote: Style is masturbation.
Style of ascent is usually a personal matter. It is not, however, masturbation. Trying to do an ascent in a better style, perhaps only better than your last go, is something to be respected. I think it should be a goal of every climber. Not pulling on a tree, not pulling on gear, top-roping the route clean, not downclimbing to the ledge after placing (or cleaning) the crux gear, all of these are good personal goals.
If you're new routing, bragging or promoting, however, you should come clean with the details. For example, if a new route was headpointed, this should be disclosed as usually there's a reason why -- no pro?
I'm not saying that top-roping routes is wrong. I'm still proud of my free leads that I'd followed or top-roped previously. But I'll be glad to disclose those facts. Yes, I pulled on gear on Prince of Darkness and The Northeast Face of Pingora. Yes, it took me several tries to send Englishman's Crack. Heck, when I "did" it, I fell, lowered off and pulled the rope, then pink-pointed it.
Climbing is fun. Climbing for fun kicks ass. Climbing with respect for "the rules and boudaries", yourself and others, awesome.
On the other hand, climbing to spray is masturbation. And, let's face it, arguing on a message board RE: style is just digitally chafing your wiener for no result.
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scotchie
May 16, 2008, 6:00 PM
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No disagreement here.
My comment was about enforcing your own style on others, or enforcing someone else's style on yourself (if you wouldn't have followed it otherwise).
Enforcing your own style choices on yourself is a good thing.
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cracklover
May 16, 2008, 6:04 PM
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Not much to say on the subject. Style is obviously both a reflection of your preferred way of doing things, and how close you came to your own preferred methods for a given climb.
But this was new to me:
forkliftdaddy wrote: I think it should be a goal of every climber. Not pulling on a tree, not pulling on gear, top-roping the route clean, not downclimbing to the ledge after placing (or cleaning) the crux gear, all of these are good personal goals.
I've never heard of anyone considering it to be better style not to use rests. To my mind, that's almost getting into the realm of speed-climbing, which is its own thing, of course, but usually not considered better style.
GO
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cracklover
May 16, 2008, 6:25 PM
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scotchie wrote: No disagreement here. My comment was about enforcing your own style on others, or enforcing someone else's style on yourself (if you wouldn't have followed it otherwise). Enforcing your own style choices on yourself is a good thing.
It sounds to me like you worry too much about being judged. No-one can enforce their style on someone else (unless they rig up a 1000 volts into the tree to keep you from touching it). All they can do is compare theirs to yours. If you really just climb for yourself, then why do you care what they think?
I did East Buttress of Middle Cathedral a while back, and tried to free the bolt ladder. Supposedly it goes at 5.10c, though it sure felt harder to me. I couldn't, and was happy to aid through it. It does not taint my pride in my ascent one iota to talk to someone who manged to onsight that pitch, free, on lead. That's a case where we both agree they did it in better style. No prob!
When I first did The Bastille, I got passed by several soloists. I may not consider that better style, but if they do, it doesn't hurt me at all! That's a case where we disagree on style, and they think theirs is better, but it's still no prob!
Works the other way, too! I have a friend who likes to project trad climbs. She often takes on gear before she succeeds in leading them cleanly. I prefer to onsight. I think my style is superior to hers. So what? That doesn't hurt her experience at all! That's a case where we disagree on style, and I think mine is better. And even still, no prob!!! See how this works?
Cheers,
GO
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tolman_paul
May 17, 2008, 12:10 AM
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I think the best style is to just STFU and climb. You should be your own harshest critic, and you should gain value from climbing from your own feelings, not those of others.
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petsfed
May 17, 2008, 2:04 AM
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shrug7 wrote: yup... do'h... Petsfed, ya might want to consider give'em their own login to your computer. or just shut them off. since when do freeloaders need internet access anyway
I just spaced that my laptop logs into rc.com with my username automatically.
The question came up when I had to get around a tree on one of the Flatirons yesterday.
I claim that pulling on a tree you do (or could) use as pro is no different from pulling on a chickenhead. Is it bad style to pull on a chickenhead if that's also the only pro available?
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vegastradguy
May 17, 2008, 2:11 AM
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if you can sling it, you can grab it!
i used to work hard to avoid trees on routes- until i went to squamish. do your best to avoid climbing trees on routes like Angel's Crest and the Grand Wall- i'll be impressed if you can!
hell, the first 30' of Unimpeachable groping is largely tolerable because of the tree you stem off of to get to the first bolt. sure the climbing isnt too hard without the tree, but having it to stem is nice!
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knieveltech
May 17, 2008, 2:15 AM
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petsfed wrote: shrug7 wrote: yup... do'h... Petsfed, ya might want to consider give'em their own login to your computer. or just shut them off. since when do freeloaders need internet access anyway I just spaced that my laptop logs into rc.com with my username automatically. The question came up when I had to get around a tree on one of the Flatirons yesterday. I claim that pulling on a tree you do (or could) use as pro is no different from pulling on a chickenhead. Is it bad style to pull on a chickenhead if that's also the only pro available?
Yeah yeah, likely story. Why don't you tell em to spit out the hook already?
Tree hugger.
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MikeSaint
May 17, 2008, 2:54 AM
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If my memory serves correctly, I have not used trees or shrubs to help climb a route. If the rock presents a more technical problem I would risk blowing the moves before grabbing onto a tree. Its a 'style' I choose.
For example:
I believe the top rope, Kiss My Ass at Pilot Mountain (NC) that has a small tree midway up the route. The route has holds, albeit not obvious that allow a climber to pass right by the tree, never touching it. Conversely, you can grab the tree as well.
On the other end of the spectrum, If no feasible placements are available on the rock, I'll sling a solid tree on lead if it is there.
Good Style? We can all weigh each others styles to our own. Who cares provided no one is blatantly being disrespectful. Ultimately the question may be, do you truly respect your own?
(This post was edited by MikeSaint on May 17, 2008, 2:56 AM)
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sky7high
May 17, 2008, 4:59 AM
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cracklover wrote: It sounds to me like you worry too much about being judged. No-one can enforce their style on someone else (unless they rig up a 1000 volts into the tree to keep you from touching it). All they can do is compare theirs to yours. If you really just climb for yourself, then why do you care what they think? I did East Buttress of Middle Cathedral a while back, and tried to free the bolt ladder. Supposedly it goes at 5.10c, though it sure felt harder to me. I couldn't, and was happy to aid through it. It does not taint my pride in my ascent one iota to talk to someone who manged to onsight that pitch, free, on lead. That's a case where we both agree they did it in better style. No prob! When I first did The Bastille, I got passed by several soloists. I may not consider that better style, but if they do, it doesn't hurt me at all! That's a case where we disagree on style, and they think theirs is better, but it's still no prob! Works the other way, too! I have a friend who likes to project trad climbs. She often takes on gear before she succeeds in leading them cleanly. I prefer to onsight. I think my style is superior to hers. So what? That doesn't hurt her experience at all! That's a case where we disagree on style, and I think mine is better. And even still, no prob!!! See how this works? Cheers, GO
Well now, here's a good post.
Trophy to you sir!
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knieveltech
May 17, 2008, 5:21 AM
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petsfed wrote: This is seriously the second fucking time some random road tripper has posted instead of me. Goddamn it. You fucking freeloaders are using up a good thing here.
True, but it's funny as hell, regardless.
Incidentally it's kinda nifty bushwhacking halfway up a 70M pitch, innit? I mean c'mon, you didn't honestly expect me to ignore most of the solid pro on the pitch, did you?
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petsfed
May 17, 2008, 5:50 AM
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Well, that's what I would've done.
Still, you and everybody else who crashes at my joint on their trips need to recognize that a presently unoccupied terminal is not an *open* terminal.
I'm still looking for clausti's "ponies" (or some such horseshit) post that was in my name.
Goddammit.
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stymingersfink
May 17, 2008, 6:31 AM
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time for you to get a new god, me thinks.
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petsfed
May 17, 2008, 6:08 PM
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MikeSaint wrote: Ultimately the question may be, do you truly respect your own?
Totally. My goal is to not pull on the gear or hang on the rope while I'm on lead.
Of course, if I was on top rope, like in your example, I'd avoid the tree. It'd make for more aesthetic climbing. But in my mind, not grabbing a perfectly good tree is like not using a kneebar to rest, or not grabbing a chickenhead you just slung. Its, for me, meaningless contrivance, a way to further sharpen a hierarchy I only half-heartedly pay attention to.
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