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jt512
Aug 6, 2008, 3:54 AM
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meahtots wrote: jt512 wrote: meahtots wrote: Remember you don't necessarily have to climb to train. Push-ups, pullups, or crunches don't require rock but will help plenty How much have they helped you? One look at your profile suggests not much. Jay I'm just saying, is all. And who cares if my profile doesn't suggest that I'm not pro? They've helped me out in the year or so that I've been climbing. There's no need to be an ass.
Is there a need to post uninformed opinions on training? You're a beginner, and you have no idea what you are talking about.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Aug 6, 2008, 3:56 AM)
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vegastradguy
Aug 6, 2008, 4:04 AM
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DHoff wrote: I understand that there are obviously harder 5.10's than others but to me it just feels like the jump between a 5.10 and a 5.11 is a 5x harder than the jump between other grades...
well...it is. the difference between 5.9 and 5.10 is one level (5.9 to 5.10a).
the difference between 5.10 and 5.11 can be 4 levels (5.10a to 5.11a).
plus 5.10 is just kind of a big grade. like Gabe, i spent years at 5.10 before even starting to touch 5.11. even now, 6 years later, on gear, i'm not consistently leading 5.11 yet.
at any rate, it all depends on a) what kind of climbing you're doing and b) how you're spending your available climbing time. generally speaking, on bolts, you'll get above 5.10 faster than you will on gear. also, with a more focused training approach, you may excel faster.
i think that you would probably benefit from any sort of exercise you can get on the boat, simply by the virtue of it being exercise. i dont think it will necessarily improve your climbing, but being in good shape certainly wont hurt it.
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quiteatingmysteak
Aug 6, 2008, 4:06 AM
Post #28 of 71
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vegastradguy wrote: DHoff wrote: I understand that there are obviously harder 5.10's than others but to me it just feels like the jump between a 5.10 and a 5.11 is a 5x harder than the jump between other grades... well...it is. the difference between 5.9 and 5.10 is one level (5.9 to 5.10a). the difference between 5.10 and 5.11 can be 4 levels (5.10a to 5.11a). plus 5.10 is just kind of a big grade. like Gabe, i spent years at 5.10 before even starting to touch 5.11. even now, 6 years later, on gear, i'm not consistently leading 5.11 yet. at any rate, it all depends on a) what kind of climbing you're doing and b) how you're spending your available climbing time. generally speaking, on bolts, you'll get above 5.10 faster than you will on gear. also, with a more focused training approach, you may excel faster. i think that you would probably benefit from any sort of exercise you can get on the boat, simply by the virtue of it being exercise. i dont think it will necessarily improve your climbing, but being in good shape certainly wont hurt it.
You can climb some of the coolest routes in California if you can climb 5.10. As long as you keep climbing and get out on real rock, you're set.
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meahtots
Aug 6, 2008, 4:10 AM
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jt512 wrote: meahtots wrote: jt512 wrote: meahtots wrote: Remember you don't necessarily have to climb to train. Push-ups, pullups, or crunches don't require rock but will help plenty How much have they helped you? One look at your profile suggests not much. Jay I'm just saying, is all. And who cares if my profile doesn't suggest that I'm not pro? They've helped me out in the year or so that I've been climbing. There's no need to be an ass. Is there a need to post uninformed opinions on training? You're a beginner, and you have no idea what you are talking about. Jay
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lena_chita
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Aug 6, 2008, 4:23 AM
Post #30 of 71
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meahtots wrote: jt512 wrote: meahtots wrote: jt512 wrote: meahtots wrote: Remember you don't necessarily have to climb to train. Push-ups, pullups, or crunches don't require rock but will help plenty How much have they helped you? One look at your profile suggests not much. Jay I'm just saying, is all. And who cares if my profile doesn't suggest that I'm not pro? They've helped me out in the year or so that I've been climbing. There's no need to be an ass. Is there a need to post uninformed opinions on training? You're a beginner, and you have no idea what you are talking about. Jay Ok. I'm curious. How many years does it take before I can understand that pullups help improve climbing?
You got it wrong. the question should have been:"O.K., I'm curious, how many years does it take before I can understand that pull-ups do relatively little to improve climbing?"
P.S. I bet you anything that you can do more pull-ups than I can.
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meahtots
Aug 6, 2008, 4:31 AM
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You guys are very fierce competetors on the interweb, good work.
I'm out
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lena_chita
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Aug 6, 2008, 4:32 AM
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DHoff wrote: I am currently in a job where i am away every other week. I climb outside about 4 times the week that i am home but i am stuck around the 5.10 range...and my climbing endurance is the issue. i have read so many of the same things....climb more, traverse, climb more, lap routes. I guess what i would like to know is if there anyone out there in my situation who can give me a few pointers...hopefully from personal experience...on what they did to help their every other week climbing? Is there hope for my climbing....or am i a 5.10er for life??
Considering that it took you 6 months to get to 5.10 level, I'd say that there is certainly hope for you climbing harder than that.
Of course it would be more optimal if you could climb without 2week-long breaks. But life is what it is. I suggest that you learn as much as possible, and practice improving your technique. You think your endurance is the issue-- and it might very well be. Nobody has great climbing endurance when they first start climbing. However. using your energy efficiently is a large part of being able to climb longer routes, and a lot of it comes from using better technique rather than expending a large amount of power on every move. If you pull yourself up through every move instead of using your feet and body position, you will tire yourself out more quickly.
Read Self-Coached Climber. Great book! It would help you identify the things you really are weak in, and give ideas on how to improve your weaknesses.
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miscmouse
Aug 6, 2008, 5:15 AM
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start leading trad. its a new set of limits to push. after a while leading trad jump on a hard sport route and you might find it suddenly a lot easier
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stymingersfink
Aug 6, 2008, 6:09 AM
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sungam wrote: TooCrucialFlails wrote: you should try harder Keep it up! Being a douche-fag like this in your very first post, combined with your SICK track record you made sure to get on your profile will be sure to make you a hero amongst men, and a heart throb amongst the ladies, too! Carolyn11 wrote: nice homophobia.
(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Aug 6, 2008, 6:11 AM)
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stymingersfink
Aug 6, 2008, 6:09 AM
Post #35 of 71
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jt512 wrote: meahtots wrote: jt512 wrote: meahtots wrote: Remember you don't necessarily have to climb to train. Push-ups, pullups, or crunches don't require rock but will help plenty How much have they helped you? One look at your profile suggests not much. Jay I'm just saying, is all. And who cares if my profile doesn't suggest that I'm not pro? They've helped me out in the year or so that I've been climbing. There's no need to be an ass. Is there a need to post uninformed opinions on training? You're a beginner, and you have no idea what you are talking about. Jay
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stymingersfink
Aug 6, 2008, 6:09 AM
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meahtots wrote: You guys are very fierce competetors on the interweb, good work. I'm out
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sungam
Aug 6, 2008, 8:44 AM
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Carolyn11 wrote: nice homophobia.
If you see it, I can already tell you are one of those bitchy types who likes to find ways of being insulted.
well, it worked- you have my attention for a short period of time! wooo4yoooo!
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sungam
Aug 6, 2008, 8:56 AM
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stymingersfink wrote: sungam wrote: TooCrucialFlails wrote: you should try harder Keep it up! Being a douche-fag like this in your very first post, combined with your SICK track record you made sure to get on your profile will be sure to make you a hero amongst men, and a heart throb amongst the ladies, too! Carolyn11 wrote: nice homophobia. for sungam it's self-loathing, actually.
I don't want te_h buttseks, we've been over this!
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sungam
Aug 6, 2008, 8:57 AM
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stymingersfink wrote: meahtots wrote: You guys are very fierce competetors on the interweb, good work. I'm out from where... the closet?
Except for arrogant bastard, but to be fair... he is an arrogant bastard.
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mounter
Aug 6, 2008, 1:32 PM
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jt512 wrote: mounter wrote: jt512 wrote: meahtots wrote: Remember you don't necessarily have to climb to train. Push-ups, pullups, or crunches don't require rock but will help plenty How much have they helped you? One look at your profile suggests not much. Jay It's a no brainer that being fit in general terms will only help your climbing abilities ...but what the hell do I know? Usually, when someone states that something is a "no brainer," what they really mean is that they have a belief that they can't back up with evidence. Jay
Insults aside...There a numerous scientific studies available (use google search engine to find some) that clearly suggest being in better general physical condition leads to better performance in almost all facets of life.
I'm not a scientist, but think about it this way: If I incorporate running into my training regiment when I'm not on the rock, I'll be in better cardiovascular condition. Therefore, my heart will function more efficiently and (no brainer) my heart will have more efficient beats, i.e. more oxygen to my muscles. I've essentially set my muscles of for better, longer and more efficient function use just by doing some cardio...therefore better general performance in everything I do, including rock climbing.
Another way to put it is if I sit on the couch and eat bon bons, potatoe chips, and cheese whiz when I'm not on the rock. I'll probably feel like shit, my overall nutrition level will be in the dumper, my arteries have a good chance of getting gooped up with plaque, and I'll get winded going up a flight of stairs. Odds are that I won't be climbing to my fullest potential.
Think about it logically, bro. I have a full time professional job, a family, a mortgage payment, and a climbing addiction. I can't get on the rock anywhere near as much as I want to. But, I'm convinced that the strength training, cardio training, and yoga that I do for 45 to 90 minutes during my work days are the reason I can still pull hard on the stone.
I'll also say that to each his/her own. What I think and what works for me may not work for you...and that's a no brainer. Peace.
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devkrev
Aug 6, 2008, 1:53 PM
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Climb alot of routes that are rated 5.9+ that were put up a long time ago, usually those routes tend to be anywhere between 5.10c and 5.11b
dev
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cracklover
Aug 6, 2008, 4:47 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: DHoff wrote: I understand that there are obviously harder 5.10's than others but to me it just feels like the jump between a 5.10 and a 5.11 is a 5x harder than the jump between other grades... well...it is. the difference between 5.9 and 5.10 is one level (5.9 to 5.10a). the difference between 5.10 and 5.11 can be 4 levels (5.10a to 5.11a). plus 5.10 is just kind of a big grade.
Exactly.
In reply to: like Gabe, i spent years at 5.10 before even starting to touch 5.11.
Well, to be fair, I did work a few 11s until I could do them cleanly, and then started working on sport 12s, but that doesn't invalidate the point that I was still working on solidifying the grade of 5.10 in all its permutations.
In reply to: even now, 6 years later, on gear, i'm not consistently leading 5.11 yet. at any rate, it all depends on a) what kind of climbing you're doing and b) how you're spending your available climbing time. generally speaking, on bolts, you'll get above 5.10 faster than you will on gear. also, with a more focused training approach, you may excel faster.
I agree with the above. Further, it's worth noting that working routes that are real projects for you is well worth doing. Just because you're at a 5.10b plateau doesn't mean you can't work 5.11 routes. And like John is saying, gear and sport climbing can be very different, especially if you prefer to onsight your trad climbs. (forgive me if you don't know what I'm talking about with sport and trad).
GO
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jt512
Aug 6, 2008, 5:15 PM
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mounter wrote: jt512 wrote: mounter wrote: jt512 wrote: meahtots wrote: Remember you don't necessarily have to climb to train. Push-ups, pullups, or crunches don't require rock but will help plenty How much have they helped you? One look at your profile suggests not much. Jay It's a no brainer that being fit in general terms will only help your climbing abilities ...but what the hell do I know? Usually, when someone states that something is a "no brainer," what they really mean is that they have a belief that they can't back up with evidence. Jay There a numerous scientific studies available (use google search engine to find some) that clearly suggest being in better general physical condition leads to better performance in almost all facets of life.
First of all, a claim that evidence exists is not the same as presenting evidence. But it doesn't matter, because you're presenting a strawman argument anyway. Your original claim was not that being in better physical condition leads to better climbing performance, but that doing pullups, crunches and pushups will be of significant training value for climbing for someone who can only climb every other weekend. This is false. Push-ups are worthless as climbing training and crunches are worthless as any kind of training. Pullups might help a litltle, but a lot less than you think.
In reply to: I'm not a scientist, but think about it this way: If I incorporate running into my training regiment when I'm not on the rock, I'll be in better cardiovascular condition. Therefore, my heart will function more efficiently and (no brainer) my heart will have more efficient beats, i.e. more oxygen to my muscles. I've essentially set my muscles of for better, longer and more efficient function use just by doing some cardio...therefore better general performance in everything I do, including rock climbing.
Not only are you not a scientist, you are completely ignorant of exercise physiology, and are substituting wildly wrong guesses about the subject for knowledge. Rock climbing (as opposed to alpine climbing) does not require cardiovascular fitness. It doesn't matter whether your heart can pump more oxygen to your muscles while climbing, because while climbing your muscles don't require, and cannot use, more oxygen than an untrained cardiovascular system can provide. Rock climbing isn't running or swimming or bicycling. It's not a cardiovascular sport.
In reply to: Another way to put it is if I sit on the couch and eat bon bons, potatoe chips, and cheese whiz when I'm not on the rock.
I agree with you that running is better than eating junk food. Can you come up with any more strawman arguments? So far, I only count three.
In reply to: I'm convinced that the strength training, cardio training, and yoga that I do for 45 to 90 minutes during my work days are the reason I can still pull hard on the stone.
Would you care to disclose at what level you climb, so that we can judge how effective your "training" has been?
Jay
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curtis_g
Aug 6, 2008, 5:58 PM
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Geez, after a year I onsighted my first 10a/b outside (at devil's lake) on my third trip outside ever. A year later I redpointed my first 11a, now almost three years into the game I can onsight 11a 50% of the time.
As you can see, you're on a better pace than myself. Keep climbing hard, have fun in the meantime.
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ryanb
Aug 6, 2008, 6:10 PM
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For me push ups, core (yoga covers both and adds flexibility) and cardiovascular training are all essential parts of climbing training.
Without a few push up sessions a week i get bicep tendinitis which puts a real damper on the amount i can climb.
I also climb primarily at a granite area (the Index town walls) where the harder routes tend to be made up of hard techy boulder problems linked by sections of 5.9 or easier climbing and occasionally core intensive "rests". This type of climbing tends to favor those with high general fitness and bouldering/hangbording strength more then pure power endurance like more sustained overhanging sport climbing.
Though PE also helps a ton (particularly with onsiteing) too but it seems to take less time to train then power or general fitness.
Could you hang a pair of rock rings on the boat? Or find a door jam or something to hang off (warm up and listen to you fingers, let them tell you when to stop) like dave macleod?
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Valarc
Aug 6, 2008, 6:14 PM
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jt512 wrote: In reply to: I'm convinced that the strength training, cardio training, and yoga that I do for 45 to 90 minutes during my work days are the reason I can still pull hard on the stone. Would you care to disclose at what level you climb, so that we can judge how effective your "training" has been? Jay
I wanted to point out the same thing - his profile has a bunch of pictures of V0s and V1s. But, being a fat, weak climber myself, I thought it would be a little obnoxious to point out someone else being weak.
At least I don't claim to "pull hard" with all my training sitting on the couch eating cheez whiz...
mmmmmm, cheez whiz
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sungam
Aug 6, 2008, 6:29 PM
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cracklover wrote: Valarc wrote: At least I don't claim to "pull hard" with all my training sitting on the couch Oh I'm pretty sure that "pulling hard" while sitting on the couch counts as training. C'mon, Jay, is it muscle-specific training for the forearms, or what? GO
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cracklover
Aug 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
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sungam wrote: cracklover wrote: Valarc wrote: At least I don't claim to "pull hard" with all my training sitting on the couch Oh I'm pretty sure that "pulling hard" while sitting on the couch counts as training. C'mon, Jay, is it muscle-specific training for the forearms, or what? GO You forgetted about the "eating the cheese-wizz" part...
Well, I've never tried it, but y'know - extra protein and all that.
GO
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Valarc
Aug 6, 2008, 6:45 PM
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cracklover wrote: sungam wrote: cracklover wrote: Valarc wrote: At least I don't claim to "pull hard" with all my training sitting on the couch Oh I'm pretty sure that "pulling hard" while sitting on the couch counts as training. C'mon, Jay, is it muscle-specific training for the forearms, or what? GO You forgetted about the "eating the cheese-wizz" part... Well, I've never tried it, but y'know - extra protein and all that. GO
You have to heat it up on the stove to make it liquidy enough to use as a good lubricant... and if you heat it up too much, whoa nelly!
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