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hyongx
Aug 19, 2008, 5:33 AM
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So I'm working on building my rack, and I've got a decent mid-sized stuff, but am considering my options for big and small cams.
I have climbed mostly on BD #3 for "big" stuff and BD C3 #0 and #1 for "small" stuff, and found that they worked fine for me.
I have placed some aliens, but never any WC cams.
Anybody have strong opinions for/against these choices, or other reccomendations, or should I just get what I am familiar with?
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josephgdawson
Aug 19, 2008, 6:03 AM
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I am a big fan of the Aliens I already have, but I will not buy any new ones. After Aliengate I bought a couple of Black Diamond C3s and I despise them. I picked up one of the new Metolious single stem Master Cams a couple of months ago and I really like it. It places just as well as an Alien. I would recommend the new Metolious cams.
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vegastradguy
Aug 19, 2008, 6:05 AM
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get what you prefer- after all, you're the one who will be placing them.
for the bigger stuff, it will likely come down to a choice between BD and WC (everyone else seems to stop at 4" or so)- and you'll find a nice variety of opinions on which is better with the exception of the largest cam, which even BD lovers will usually agree that the WC #6 is a better choice because its wider and more stable than the BD#6. however, for everything under that...its all preference. (that said, the BD #6 is fine, i've got two of them and i've never really felt like it was a bad cam, but i will admit to the WC feeling more stable).
the smaller stuff- lots of choices there, the C3s are a good one, the Aliens are too, provided they survive a bounce test before use. Metolius' Master Cams are also out now (the little ones are new, so the jury is still out), and of course the WC Zero's are another option.
but, at the end of the day, it all comes down to how the cams feels in your hand. i'd go down to the gear shop and play with a few different cams and see which ones you like. i remember my first trip for small cams and after feeling the three options available to me, one was a clear cut winner and i walked out with two small cams that i was very happy with.
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tedman
Aug 19, 2008, 6:09 PM
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I'll second (third?) the mastercams. They do a pretty damn good comparison to aliens, use the same color/size scheme (I think, or at least its pretty close), and wont explode on ya. 0-4 (4 is just about the same as a .75 c4 except narrower) are on my rack.
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patmay81
Aug 19, 2008, 6:22 PM
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In reply to: I'll second (third?) the mastercams
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shimanilami
Aug 19, 2008, 9:17 PM
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Climbing with Aliens will grow hair on your chest. That's what I use, and I'm fucking rad.
If you're planning to do any aid climbing, the flexibility of the single stem models is a major advantage.
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stymingersfink
Aug 21, 2008, 12:41 AM
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shimanilami wrote: Climbing with Aliens will grow hair on your chest. That's what I use, and I'm fucking rad. If you're planning to do any aid climbing, the flexibility of the single stem models is a major advantage.offsets are fucking KEY!
edit: correct a mis-tag
(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Aug 21, 2008, 12:42 AM)
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Factor2
Aug 21, 2008, 1:12 AM
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Another vote for the mastercams. They just feel so awesome.
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angry
Aug 21, 2008, 1:19 AM
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I wonder how many of these goofs actually have used aliens side by side with mastercams?
Every time, and I mean every single fucking time without fail ever that I had a mastercam and alien of the same size hanging off my rack, I placed the alien. The mastercams do work, but just aren't nearly the cam.
As far as the #3 bd vs 3.5 wc. They are the same size, so pick whatever. There is no discernable advantage one over the other.
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Factor2
Aug 21, 2008, 1:20 AM
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nowhere did i compare them to aliens, i just said that i have them, and that they work awesome
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stymingersfink
Aug 21, 2008, 2:06 AM
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angry wrote: I wonder how many of these goofs actually have used aliens side by side with mastercams? Every time, and I mean every single fucking time without fail ever that I had a mastercam and alien of the same size hanging off my rack, I placed the alien. The mastercams do work, but just aren't nearly the cam. As far as the #3 bd vs 3.5 wc. They are the same size, so pick whatever. There is no discernable advantage one over the other.
I can discern some differences between them and the mastercams that would probably relegate the mastercams solely to my free rack. I picked up blue-->red just to check them out, doubt I'll be buying purple or gray anytime soon.
They're allright i guess. I might go apeshit on them if they start making offsets, but right now IDK.
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napoleon_in_rags
Sep 15, 2008, 5:58 PM
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My rack is Aliens. I have climbed alot on a friend of mine's rack made up of all C3s.
Aliens place better than C3s. I just feel more comfortable on them. Though all the Aliens are prerecall and I have fallen on some of them and tested the others. Maybe I just don't like 3 cam units.
Admittedly I haven't climbed on master cams. But consensus among my friends is:
Aliens: Awesome (Buy at a real gear shop with a knowledgeable staff, give it a jump test)
WC Zeros: Great (One friend refuses to climb on anything else)
Mastercams: Seem good but only time will tell
BD C3s: Not as good as the other three and definitely not worth the extra 20$ per cam.
Master Cams: Good - waiting more time for flaws
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Gmburns2000
Sep 15, 2008, 6:23 PM
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patmay81 wrote: In reply to: I'll second (third?) the mastercams I'll second (fourth) the mastercams. for fingers I alternate mastercams and tcu. I don't like BD small stuff- but thats just me, most people love all things BD.
I'd fit into that category. I use Aliens (though I don't own any) and don't like them as much as C3s. Yeah, I know that the lobes on Aliens are smaller, but I just don't like plugging Aliens. I find them difficult to actually place compared to my C3s (i.e. - the C3 stems are stiffer and that makes a difference in placing the cams). However, I feel that I am in the minority on this, as many people love Aliens.
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cchas
Sep 15, 2008, 9:41 PM
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I'm with GMBurns on this one. I had used Aliens for years (in the 90's) but have switched to C3's (after using Wild Country Zeros for a while). My go to piece for small hard stuff (which is relative but for me that is small .12's and .13's) I'll go with C3's first
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socalbolter
Sep 16, 2008, 12:51 AM
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If anyone is interested in them, I have one each of the WC Zero sizes. Without digging them out, I'm going to say that the smallest one has never been placed and the others have been used maybe 2-3 times each, with none taking falls.
Truth of the matter is, I'm basically a sport climber these days and having had many years of trad climbing experience my rack will not suffer any significant changes if these were to disappear from it.
Any buyers out there?
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climbingaggie03
Sep 16, 2008, 1:59 AM
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Personally, I like the BD cams all the way up to number 6. I don't really like the camalots smaller than .75 so I go with TCU's yellow, orange, and red, and the black power cam. I've placed a few master cams and side by side, I'd rather place a TCU. TCU's fit in pin scars better, and they have the same amount of cam contact with the rock as a master cam. The one disadvantage of TCU's is the stem isn't as flexible as the master cams, but I haven't really ever had a problem with that.
Smaller than Yellow TCU, I prefer C3's the TCU's are ok, but it seems like the C3's are easier to place IMO. I have Green, Red and Yellow (0,1,2) I don't quite trust the green one for free climbing, nor do I trust the ones smaller than green to hold a fall.
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petsfed
Sep 16, 2008, 2:42 AM
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Since Aliens have a wider range (thanks to a 17 degree cam angle, vs. Metolius' 10 or so and BD's 13 and change), I go for them more often. I'm more likely to have a piece that fits, which is quite the challenge on small cracks. However, new aliens are a bit untrustworthy. As far as single stem small cams go, I'd choose zeros then an even tie between mastercams, c3s, and TCUs. If you can get your hands on a set of pre-recall aliens, get those. They remain the best small cams, even if they're not quite everybody's thing.
As BD vs. WC in the wide hands section (because #3 is only fists if you have microscopic hands, and even then, its cripple fists), there's no difference. Yes, the thumb loop on the C4s gives BD an advantage (especially if you're walking the cam) but since the DMM 4cus have the exact same sizes as friends and a u-stem, its kind of a minor issue. The silver DMM is the same size as a WC 3.5, if you were wondering, and cheaper than either.
It seriously made me laugh at the suggestion that a blue camalot is a big piece these days. On most people's racks, the big gray/black camalot is the big piece. Now, where I'm from...
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AlexCV
Sep 16, 2008, 3:49 AM
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petsfed wrote: The silver DMM is the same size as a WC 3.5, if you were wondering, and cheaper than either.
Small nitpick, the 3.5 4cu is blue, like the 3.5 friend. DMM and WC have used the same color scheme for a while now (and DMM makes most of the WC forged stuff, especially anything anodized like cams and the anodized rocks/rockcentrics.)
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petsfed
Sep 16, 2008, 3:15 PM
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AlexCV wrote: petsfed wrote: The silver DMM is the same size as a WC 3.5, if you were wondering, and cheaper than either. Small nitpick, the 3.5 4cu is blue, like the 3.5 friend. DMM and WC have used the same color scheme for a while now (and DMM makes most of the WC forged stuff, especially anything anodized like cams and the anodized rocks/rockcentrics.)
You're kidding!
Dammit! Its the new color scheme. The 3.5 DMM used to be silver, then they redid the color schema. Now its blue. Otherwise, its the same size.
I only bought mine 3 years ago.
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hyongx
Sep 17, 2008, 7:09 AM
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well, I made my decision -
I ended up getting one alien and the WC 3.5,
no good reason - just for variety, and the hell of it.
I sorta think people who climb only BD are yuppies, and somebody said "aliens put hair on your chest," and I decided I should grow some.
Placed the alien first time last weekend, cool with it. Headin out the the New this weekend, and stoked to get some trad in.
heres my rack right now. i guess this pic is redundant because I already put it in the rack pic thread, but I'm just stoked anyway.
(This post was edited by hyongx on Sep 17, 2008, 7:10 AM)
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alleyehave
Sep 17, 2008, 7:28 AM
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hyongx wrote: well, I made my decision - I ended up getting one alien and the WC 3.5, no good reason - just for variety, and the hell of it. I sorta think people who climb only BD are yuppies, and somebody said "aliens put hair on your chest," and I decided I should grow some. Placed the alien first time last weekend, cool with it. Headin out the the New this weekend, and stoked to get some trad in. heres my rack right now. i guess this pic is redundant because I already put it in the rack pic thread, but I'm just stoked anyway. [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=2503;[/image]
I r NOT a yuppie!
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sungam
Sep 17, 2008, 9:07 AM
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moar nutz! u need moar nutz!!!
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alleyehave
Sep 17, 2008, 9:17 AM
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sungam wrote: moar nutz! u need moar nutz!!!
I concur with this general statement.
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hyongx
Sep 17, 2008, 4:51 PM
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alleyehave wrote: sungam wrote: moar nutz! u need moar nutz!!! I concur with this general statement.
I guess I just have BD stoppers 4-13
What sort of nuts do you think I should get?
I like coco nuts.
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AlexCV
Sep 17, 2008, 4:56 PM
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I like the DMM Wallnuts and they have a very different shape to the BD ones. Size 1-8 are the most common sizes (roughly BD 3/4 to 11/12) but I also like the bigger ones (they go to 11 which would be a BD 14 or maybe 15.) Some people don't like them because they set more and are harder to clean.
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