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strongmadsends
Aug 28, 2008, 8:52 PM
Post #21101 of 22774
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In reply to: I had too much cake yesterday at a going-away party at work, and if I still lived with my mom she would have been very angry at me for not using the fan afterward.
Man - we played beer pong and had wings delivered for our going away party at work.
GIVE ME CAKE.
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wonderwoman
Aug 28, 2008, 8:56 PM
Post #21102 of 22774
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strongmadsends wrote: In reply to: I had too much cake yesterday at a going-away party at work, and if I still lived with my mom she would have been very angry at me for not using the fan afterward. Man - we played beer pong and had wings delivered for our going away party at work. GIVE ME CAKE.
I told you guys - you can't have any... IT'S MINE!!!
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Gmburns2000
Aug 28, 2008, 8:59 PM
Post #21103 of 22774
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wonderwoman wrote: strongmadsends wrote: In reply to: I had too much cake yesterday at a going-away party at work, and if I still lived with my mom she would have been very angry at me for not using the fan afterward. Man - we played beer pong and had wings delivered for our going away party at work. GIVE ME CAKE. I told you guys - you can't have any... IT'S MINE!!!
OY! What about all this talk about peace(s)...of cake!
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strongmadsends
Aug 28, 2008, 9:15 PM
Post #21104 of 22774
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maznev
Aug 28, 2008, 9:47 PM
Post #21105 of 22774
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Some other climbs at Crow Hill have bolts at the top and I guess nobody complains? Rap anchors on Cannon (e.g. Vertigo) may indeed detract from the spirit of adventure, but we're talking about short climbs which are mostly top-roped. The chains on Intertwine are fine but if somebody equipped the routes to the right of it with bolted anchors - wouldn't it be better than using the trees at the top of the cliff?
cheers,
-Alex
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core
Aug 29, 2008, 1:29 AM
Post #21106 of 22774
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maznev
Aug 29, 2008, 1:40 AM
Post #21107 of 22774
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the book of solemnity?
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core
Aug 29, 2008, 1:42 AM
Post #21108 of 22774
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jakedatc
Aug 29, 2008, 1:46 AM
Post #21109 of 22774
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exiting the Book roof? niiice
might skip the crowds this weekend and wait till next weekend to head to Rumvegas with Kate. chance of rain saturday anyway.
maybe biners tomorrow if my hands have recovered from the LW thrashing.
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core
Aug 29, 2008, 1:59 AM
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seeker
Aug 29, 2008, 2:24 AM
Post #21112 of 22774
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Hey, here's a great scenic route that has lead solo (or just solo) possibilities. I had the pleasure of being on it last Sunday on a nice sunny day. Henderson Ridge in Huntington Ravine on Mt.Washington. It even comes with a short but gnarly bushwhack in the approach, a bonus for sure. Seriously though, it's about as scenic as you could ask for. Hope my picture really gets attached. Cheers.
(This post was edited by seeker on Aug 29, 2008, 2:26 AM)
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DSCN3389_1.JPG
(70.6 KB)
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 29, 2008, 2:59 AM
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maznev wrote: the book of solemnity?
Super sweet climb. One of my favorites!
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wonderwoman
Aug 29, 2008, 2:13 PM
Post #21114 of 22774
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What's going down in the gunks this weekend, peeps? Josh and I are in!
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Gmburns2000
Aug 29, 2008, 2:17 PM
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wonderwoman wrote: What's going down in the gunks this weekend, peeps? Josh and I are in!
NOOO! you're going to ACADIA!! Remember?
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wonderwoman
Aug 29, 2008, 2:27 PM
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I get all the news I need from the weather report..
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olderic
Aug 29, 2008, 2:40 PM
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maznev wrote: Some other climbs at Crow Hill have bolts at the top and I guess nobody complains? Rap anchors on Cannon (e.g. Vertigo) may indeed detract from the spirit of adventure, but we're talking about short climbs which are mostly top-roped. The chains on Intertwine are fine but if somebody equipped the routes to the right of it with bolted anchors - wouldn't it be better than using the trees at the top of the cliff? cheers, -Alex
The 3 sets of bolted anchors at the top of the practice slab were installed purely for ecological reasons - save the trees and limit erosion - not sure it helped. We wanted to install some above Intertwine (do you kids know it used to be AKA "Lightning Crack"?) but the MA Parks suits wanted to wait and see how the first set of 3 anchors went over. When I say the top of Intertwine I mean the tip top of the cliff. More people top rope it from there then lead up and use the chains. The fixed anchors on Cro-Mag, Jane, Fool on the Hill/Buttress and Thin Line are obviously all convenience ("safety") anchors. The C-M an TL ones being relatively new and seeminly accepted by the community.
Often times the ecological card can be used to rationalize the installation of safety/convenience anchors. Clearly putting a couple of holes and pieces ot metal into a dead rock is a lot more LNT then stomping around on the fragile topsoil that exists on most cliff tops. But altering the rock for convenience or safety is pretty much against the whole traditional climbing spirit - I am not talking about just "trad" climbing here (I hate that phrase) but the spirit by which climbing had elvoled for a few hundred years up until about 20 years ago when it started becoming more of a main stream activity.
I know Greg gets antsy when I talk about gym climbers attitudes and will refute any gym origins. I don't want to pick on Greg (certainly I don't have the means to out e-pontificate him) but his attitudes seem to perfectly sum up what I think of as typical gym bread concepts - mainly the right to enjoy a safe experience. With this traditional spirit that I was talking about there were times in climbing where if you fell you died. Period. Some (a minority) enjoyed being in those situations. Most of us didn't but accepted them as being part of the whole experience. But now that it is mainstream there seems to be an attempt to make sure everyone can climb everything with minimum risk. A realted part of the spirit was self sufficieny - you didn't rely on any previous folks having "prepared" anything for you - fixed gear, anchors etc. Alex meantioned the pragmatic view that most of us take advantage of this stuff when we cah. Well sure that is human nature. Also most of us know that we should check the condition of it before we use it - how many of us really do? How much of a check is necessary? Gabe meantioned that size matters in terms of the Intertwine boulder - that it is unlikely to go anywhere - yet it is smaller then the boulder on top of El Cal - the boulder that thousnads had anchored on - that slid on Piana and Skinner after the FFA of the Salathe. Josh recently led Fat City - did he take a hammer and tap on that pin at the crux before he led it? in the old days (and I am talking about the mid 80's long after people stopped placing pins at the Gunks but still relied on them) that was S.O.P. - now it would be comical to see that.
So what's the point? Not sure. I guess it would be relatively easy to make most climbs - especially here in the Northeast - pretty dog-gone safe - maybe not idiot proof but reasonably safe. I think taht would be a mistake - I think that places like the Gunks, the big cliffs on NH, even CT (despite the annoying KN) and even Crow Hill should have a minimum of convenience/safty improvements so taht some of us fossils who want to continue to climb in the old days still have a play pen. There are enough Rumneys. When/if we all die off then do with theses raeas what you will.
I recently spent a couple of weeks with my boy in Wyoming primarily in the Tetons. I know it's partly my old age but I think it's also the gym/sport influence (that's what I have been primarily doing the past 10 years) that made some of the routes that we did especially challenging. Tettering around unroped on loose rocks thousands of feet up was..ahh..a bit difficult. We repeated some routes I had 30+ years ago (when i was barely older then Zeb) and I marveled at the fact that I had been easily able to do them in my youth. But by the end of the trip I was much more comfortable with the whole thing (it also helped that whenever things got difficult (like when we started up the N Ridge of the Grand (a Grade 4) after 6PM (because we had done a ginormous traversing approach over other peaks to get there) a route that had taken me all day to do 31 years ago - a route that Zeb and I were committed to completing - going up and over because we weren't equipped to bail or bivy - that I could just "deploy Zeb" to get me out of this. The kid might have some alpine chops after all - just has to get over his dread of chalkstone chimneys) - it might have helped if I had aspent some time on Cannon etc. before the trip.
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Gmburns2000
Aug 29, 2008, 2:44 PM
Post #21118 of 22774
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wonderwoman wrote: I get all the news I need from the weather report..
Bar Harbor: Fri - sunny high of 68; Sat - sunny high of 73; Sun - sunny high of 79; Mon - sunny high of 77
Gunks - Fri - rain high of 78; Sat - thunderstorm high of 79; Sun - sunny high of 85; Mon - sunny high of 87
I was going to lie and put the weather forecast for Gustof in place of the Gunks, but I didn't need to. Hmm...
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ratherbe
Aug 29, 2008, 3:11 PM
Post #21119 of 22774
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Gmburns2000 wrote: wonderwoman wrote: I get all the news I need from the weather report.. Bar Harbor: Fri - sunny high of 68; Sat - sunny high of 73; Sun - sunny high of 79; Mon - sunny high of 77 Gunks - Fri - rain high of 78; Sat - thunderstorm high of 79; Sun - sunny high of 85; Mon - sunny high of 87 I was going to lie and put the weather forecast for Gustof in place of the Gunks, but I didn't need to. Hmm...
I'm feeling Gunkie. And not at all surprised that at least one of the days is calling for possible t-storms. Apparently NE weather is like me... not ready for summer to be over yet!
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Gmburns2000
Aug 29, 2008, 3:14 PM
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I don't think you were picking on me, Eric. In fact, I think your post was well-written and fair. I can certainly see why someone of your experience (having seen the sport "grow" from one of bold adventure to one that is more mainstream) would see the use of bolts for anchors as coming from a gym culture. After all, you've seen it happen before your eyes and I haven't, and that difference of perspective is likely wider than I can appreciate.
My preference for these anchors came at a fairly early stage of my climbing life while in Scotland, where these sorts of protections are heretical at best (funny side story: there are rebuilt fire signals / stations at the top of some hills / mtns in Scotland that are sort of "museums" of how the clans used to send warnings across the region in case of invasion. Well, one day when I topped out near one of those, and before I had read the plaque at the base of it, I asked my partner what that was. He said with his thick Scottish brogue, "Thas whare we put the climberrs 'oo disrrepect tha lahnd. I carry a match wit mae jus' in case I find one."  ) Anyway, I was often afraid of throwing my rope around a boulder or tree (they hardly even have sling anchors like at the Gunks) and remember being really timid. Some of that may have been my early-years' lack of comfort in the gear, but that fear hasn't gone away over the years.
As for my ecological argument, I grew up in Acadia and have seen first-hand what the impact can be on trails (and not just off-trail hiking). Sure, there are places for trails, but my preference is to avoid it. Unfortunately, it is not always avoidable as human impact is almost inevitable. However, when at the 'Gunks (at the very top), I actually feel badly about walking along that so-called trail in search of my next descent. It just doesn't feel like the trail should be there, and I often feel badly for placing 50 footsteps on top of what was likely thousands of footsteps before me when a few inches of dead rock would have solved the problem.
Still, I can appreciate your viewpoint about wanting to climb what you remember when your generation was setting the stage for today's generation and developing these areas. I'm really quite conflicted in this, as I feel that trad provides a greater ideal than sport (less impact, greater adventure), but at the same time I'm also for trying to ensure that both the land and the people who use it are protected. It is a very difficult balance to keep.
To be clear, I'm not arguing with you. Just talking. I thought your comments were good and fair.
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Gmburns2000
Aug 29, 2008, 3:17 PM
Post #21121 of 22774
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ratherbe wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: wonderwoman wrote: I get all the news I need from the weather report.. Bar Harbor: Fri - sunny high of 68; Sat - sunny high of 73; Sun - sunny high of 79; Mon - sunny high of 77 Gunks - Fri - rain high of 78; Sat - thunderstorm high of 79; Sun - sunny high of 85; Mon - sunny high of 87 I was going to lie and put the weather forecast for Gustof in place of the Gunks, but I didn't need to. Hmm... I'm feeling Gunkie. And not at all surprised that at least one of the days is calling for possible t-storms. Apparently NE weather is like me... not ready for summer to be over yet!
Yeah, we're not driving to BH. I'd have to deal with too much crap if we did that (annual family reunion is Labor Day weekend, and the drunk volleyball games are getting lame now that everyone who shows up is in their 70s and has to stop the game every ten minutes in search of the dentures that got knocked out during the last round of brawls over the score. Seriously, the fights were always fun, but the searching for dentures was boring).
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maznev
Aug 29, 2008, 4:10 PM
Post #21122 of 22774
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olderic wrote: With this traditional spirit that I was talking about there were times in climbing where if you fell you died.
This is how it was done 70 years back (the link has been posted on the eurofreaks forum) - enjoy!
http://www.tcm.com/...5&titleId=400726
----------------------
"To mountaineers of yesterday the sport's attraction was the basic simplicity and directness of purpose - its freedom from material restrictions, organizations, and legalities. They typically climbed with small parties of close friends and like-minded companions and found adventures that forged deeper friendships and provided greater esthetic rewards. [..]
Today [..] mountaineering has become a "what-to-wear" and "how-to-do-it-correctly" recreational activity."
Dee Molenaar, "The Challenge of Rainier".
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wonderwoman
Aug 29, 2008, 4:27 PM
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ratherbe wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: wonderwoman wrote: I get all the news I need from the weather report.. Bar Harbor: Fri - sunny high of 68; Sat - sunny high of 73; Sun - sunny high of 79; Mon - sunny high of 77 Gunks - Fri - rain high of 78; Sat - thunderstorm high of 79; Sun - sunny high of 85; Mon - sunny high of 87 I was going to lie and put the weather forecast for Gustof in place of the Gunks, but I didn't need to. Hmm... I'm feeling Gunkie. And not at all surprised that at least one of the days is calling for possible t-storms. Apparently NE weather is like me... not ready for summer to be over yet!
I'm with you! seems and equal chance of rain everywhere! I also seem to have misplaced my swain guide...
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ratherbe
Aug 29, 2008, 4:31 PM
Post #21124 of 22774
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wonderwoman wrote: I also seem to have misplaced my swain guide...
Oh, Josh told me he tossed it after seeing how wrong Swain was about clipping that piton on Fat City. Psssh, Swain's got nothing on Josh.
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wonderwoman
Aug 29, 2008, 4:33 PM
Post #21125 of 22774
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What is it that Bill says?
"I've been Swained too many times!"
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