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coolcat83
Aug 25, 2008, 9:45 PM
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So I recently came into possession of a microcender to do some tr soloing (I don't like a grigri for it), my plan is to attach it with the belay master biner i got a few years back with an src. I think putting it at the narrow end will eliminate any chance of cross loading the biner, but i have a couple concerns because that puts the radius of the biner not i total contact with the clip hole on the microcender, ie the outer portions of the hole contact the biner but i think there is a tiny gap towards the middle due to the curve of the biner. I think it's ok, anyone have experience with this? what do you use to attach the microscender?
yes i know it's dangerous ect... i use backup knots, i know how to escape should i get stuck hanging off of it, i can switch to rappel or ascending quickly and smoothly.
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Tipton
Aug 25, 2008, 9:58 PM
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I don't think you have anything to worry about. I use a petzl half-moon quicklink to resist crossloading and am happy with it. My biggest gripe about this setup is the backup knot. When you use one, it takes the weight off the rope limiting the microcenders self feeding. The other option would be to rig a separate ascender as a backup which can be even more of a cluster fuck.
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anykineclimb
Aug 25, 2008, 10:27 PM
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use a sling to girth hitch the microcender to your harness. you can also use the GH to attach the microcender to the sling.
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coolcat83
Aug 25, 2008, 10:38 PM
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anykineclimb wrote: use a sling to girth hitch the microcender to your harness. you can also use the GH to attach the microcender to the sling.
so i assume sling through tie ins, and short sling to have little to no shock loading.
edited to add, girthing it it looks like that would twist the ascender unless i tie webbing through it.
what about using the belay master to my belay loop? should be plenty strong?
(This post was edited by coolcat83 on Aug 25, 2008, 11:08 PM)
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flipnfall
Aug 26, 2008, 12:32 AM
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I just use a single locking and when I'm getting up there, I tie knots in the rope incase the device gets under my leg and doesn't lock off in a fall. The knot will save my life even if I get one heck of a rope burn. My biggest concern is that I don't position my legs in such a way that if I fall it prevents the device from flipping up and locking like it needs to. I'm not as confident of a climber self belaying, but it's what you have to do if you want to climb more often than your lazy partner(s).
Best of luck!
GT
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Tipton
Aug 26, 2008, 2:53 PM
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This brings up another question I've had. How sketchy does this sound- hooking a small locker onto a leg loop and having the rope run straight through it. You then tie an overhand on a bight in the rope below the locker. If the device completely fails, as in falls off the rope, then you would slide down the rope and the locker would catch on the overhand knot. The only concern I have is the funny loading on the biner. Any comments on this type of backup?
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stymingersfink
Aug 26, 2008, 5:16 PM
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Tipton wrote: This brings up another question I've had. How sketchy does this sound- hooking a small locker onto a leg loop and having the rope run straight through it. You then tie an overhand on a bight in the rope below the locker. If the device completely fails, as in falls off the rope, then you would slide down the rope and the locker would catch on the overhand knot. The only concern I have is the funny loading on the biner. Any comments on this type of backup?
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mike_gibson
Aug 26, 2008, 7:56 PM
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the microcender has a small hole on the backside that I ran a piece of cord thru. Then I hooked the cord to a chest harness to keep the microcender upright and prevent cross loading.
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shockabuku
Aug 26, 2008, 8:09 PM
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mike_gibson wrote: the microcender has a small hole on the backside that I ran a piece of cord thru. Then I hooked the cord to a chest harness to keep the microcender upright and prevent cross loading.
I hooked mine to a chest harness once. That one time, after using it for about two years, I bent the cable that activates the cam. I'll never do that again.
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mike_gibson
Aug 26, 2008, 9:11 PM
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shockabuku wrote: I hooked mine to a chest harness once. That one time, after using it for about two years, I bent the cable that activates the cam. I'll never do that again.
We're talking about a microcender. The cable is just a keeper/retainer for the cam so that you dont drop it. It doesn't activate it. I've used this setup for over ten years and can't even guess how you could screw it up.
If you totally remove the cable ( which I have done ) the device and cam will still work as designed by grabbing the rope.
Or did you actually hook into the cable? That would really be dumb.
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Tipton
Aug 26, 2008, 9:15 PM
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If you twist the cam piece around funny, sometimes you can keep it from locking. I haven't been able to replicate this with a rope in it, only by itself. If it has a rope in it the cam piece won't flip over enough. At least I think that's what he is referring to.
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coolcat83
Aug 26, 2008, 9:20 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: Tipton wrote: This brings up another question I've had. How sketchy does this sound- hooking a small locker onto a leg loop and having the rope run straight through it. You then tie an overhand on a bight in the rope below the locker. If the device completely fails, as in falls off the rope, then you would slide down the rope and the locker would catch on the overhand knot. The only concern I have is the funny loading on the biner. Any comments on this type of backup? yer gonna die!!!
and I thought i was asking a shady question...you just might become a mark on the ground with that one.
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coolcat83
Aug 26, 2008, 9:21 PM
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Tipton wrote: If you twist the cam piece around funny, sometimes you can keep it from locking. I haven't been able to replicate this with a rope in it, only by itself. If it has a rope in it the cam piece won't flip over enough. At least I think that's what he is referring to.
yeah, basically as soon as there is tension from above on the rope the thing is going to flip into the right orientation, i would find it pretty hard to get myself into a position where i'd get it just right to fail...that said that's why i'm still using backup knots
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shockabuku
Aug 26, 2008, 9:26 PM
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mike_gibson wrote: We're talking about a microcender.
Yep, got it.
mike_gibson wrote: The cable is just a keeper/retainer for the cam so that you dont drop it.
Nope, wrong.
mike_gibson wrote: It doesn't activate it.
The cable keeps the cam in contact with the rope. Without the cable, particularly on a thin rope, the cam may not have any friction against the rope and may not engage.
mike_gibson wrote: I've used this setup for over ten years and can't even guess how you could screw it up.
Sorry, I can't make you any more imaginative than you are (or in this case, aren't).
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coolcat83
Aug 26, 2008, 9:27 PM
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mike_gibson wrote: shockabuku wrote: I hooked mine to a chest harness once. That one time, after using it for about two years, I bent the cable that activates the cam. I'll never do that again. We're talking about a microcender. The cable is just a keeper/retainer for the cam so that you dont drop it. It doesn't activate it. I've used this setup for over ten years and can't even guess how you could screw it up. If you totally remove the cable ( which I have done ) the device and cam will still work as designed by grabbing the rope. Or did you actually hook into the cable? That would really be dumb.
i did consider that at some point i might want to use a chest harness with it, depending on the climb, there's a hole on the bottom of the microcender that could be threaded quite easily with some accessory cord or a small elastic band. i'm not sure why you would ever clip the cable, it's not built to do anything but hold that cam so you don't drop it, it does provide a little tension but nothing like a spring loaded ascender.
(This post was edited by coolcat83 on Aug 26, 2008, 9:27 PM)
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Tipton
Aug 26, 2008, 9:46 PM
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shockabuku wrote: mike_gibson wrote: We're talking about a microcender. Yep, got it. mike_gibson wrote: The cable is just a keeper/retainer for the cam so that you dont drop it. Nope, wrong. mike_gibson wrote: It doesn't activate it. The cable keeps the cam in contact with the rope. Without the cable, particularly on a thin rope, the cam may not have any friction against the rope and may not engage. mike_gibson wrote: I've used this setup for over ten years and can't even guess how you could screw it up. Sorry, I can't make you any more imaginative than you are (or in this case, aren't).
Actually, I think you're wrong on this one. Its downward force on the cam that puts it in contact with the rope. If you remove the cable, the microcender still functions just fine.
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mike_gibson
Aug 26, 2008, 10:17 PM
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shockabuku wrote: The cable keeps the cam in contact with the rope. Without the cable, particularly on a thin rope, the cam may not have any friction against the rope and may not engage.
That's amazing. You need the extra 0.5 ounces of force from the cable in addition to body weight?
Give petzl a call, so they have a good laugh. Im done talking to you.
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scottek67
Sep 5, 2008, 8:01 AM
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if you are top-rope soloing... forget that! Get yourself an USHBA. get the titanium one as it's made for this. I don't trust the aluminum one.
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coolcat83
Sep 5, 2008, 11:59 AM
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mike_gibson wrote: shockabuku wrote: The cable keeps the cam in contact with the rope. Without the cable, particularly on a thin rope, the cam may not have any friction against the rope and may not engage. That's amazing. You need the extra 0.5 ounces of force from the cable in addition to body weight? Give petzl a call, so they have a good laugh. Im done talking to you.
I agree, perhaps in a vacuum with a frictionless rope andascender you may have a point. but in reality the rope/ascender/you will not fall all in the prefect alignment to have the can be open as the rope feeds straight through the device without contacting the walls or cam. and with out you moving or twisting causing the device to move. as soon as you fall actually you make the microscender move too, try it. drop something with it attached to the rope even do it holding the cam open (by the way, the cable is held in by set screws if you are curious enough to want to take it out to experiment) the binder attatched to the device will cause it to move a little and catch. if you grab the device and hold it open or it catches oddly on something sure you could make it fail like anything else, but that little cable is not doing much besides keeping slight tension to aid engaging...but it would lock up ok without it imo. I believe gibbs ascenders, which work similarly are available with and without springs that aid the cam.
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