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rtwilli4
Sep 11, 2008, 6:49 AM
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So... I have been top-roping for 8 years. I didn't really do it much until I was in college, and have only been leading sport for about 2 years. For about 6 months straight all I did was onsight routes. I really didn't try anything harder than an .11b. I onsighted .11a's and redpointed .11b's. I flailed my way up one .12a on toprope, but I did all the moves.
I have never really cared to try anything above what I can onsite. Sometimes I do, and I redpoint it with one or two falls. Am I missing out... would I be climbing harder right now if I projected a .12a or concentrated on redpointing .11d's? Should I be climbing on toprope? I suck at toprope. I fall off of routes that I can flash all day long.
I dunno... I love the feeling of looking up at something and being like "I can climb that." To me that means onsighting it or at least flashing it. It has caused me to shy away from working routes that are a little over my head.
Sorry for all the terminology... I know some people get tired of it all. I certainly do. I'm the first person to say "dude just have fun" but I'm going to be at RRG for a few months and then back to Thailand for 5 months and want to have a little game plan that might get me into the mid 7's (that's French for .12's).
Seriously... I know the right answer to this question is "man, climb the lines you want to climb and forget the numbers" but I'm the one who always says that so this time I'm looking for something a little different. Thanks.
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hyongx
Sep 11, 2008, 7:05 AM
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rtwilli4 wrote: I have never really cared to try anything above what I can onsite.
rtwilli4 wrote: I love the feeling of looking up at something and being like "I can climb that."
rtwilli4 wrote: I'm the first person to say "dude just have fun"
rtwilli4 wrote: ... I know the right answer to this question
I think you answered your own question.
But it sounds like you want somebody to tell you, work a proj, flail, and do some training so you can rip it up in the red and abroad.
so...
Dude, work a proj, flail, and do some training so you can rip it up in the red and abroad.
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lena_chita
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Sep 11, 2008, 1:44 PM
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Are you trolling? Whatever rocks your boat!
I like the feeling of being able to walk up to the rock, look at it, think :I can climb it!--and flashing it.
I also get a lot of satisfaction out of redpointing something that the first time around felt impossibly, outlandishly hard (for me, LOL, not on an objective diffuculty scale). I think it is really cool how the moves come together, how you go from hang-dogging bolt-to-bolt to linking it all in one.
I do think that "working on projects" makes me stronger and ultimately more able to onsight routes that i wouldn't have onsighted if I didn't push myself on redpoints.
So should you have a project? Yeah, if you ask me, sure. But I wouldn't jump on .12d and start projecting it if your best redpoint is .11b. I would work on .11c and .11d, and then move through the .12s.
And toprope to me is counter-productive. I do occasionally climb on toprope, but I find that I make the moves differently on toprope, I unclip the draws from different holds than the ones I would have used on lead, and in general it doesn't get me closer to redpointing something. I might work a specific move on a toprope a few times, after I lead the route- that can be helpful to me.
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Aceto
Sep 11, 2008, 1:59 PM
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i have many projs as i rarely look at guidebook.
many instance where i get on aclimb and bail because i cant finish. my partner retrieve hundreds of dollars for me out of cracks because i cant work the move.
projs are humbling- exciting and learning experience
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sidepull
Sep 11, 2008, 3:03 PM
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I agree with Lena*.
Only onsighting means you're focusing on what's possible.
Projecting means you're are learning to make the impossible possible.
More growth occurs in the latter.
* In contrast, reading anything from Aceto just makes me dumber.
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deane
Sep 11, 2008, 3:15 PM
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I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but I would definitely recommend trying a few things. It seems to me that if you want to improve your climbing, you need to figure out what your weaknesses are and address them systematically. If your technique is less than perfect, work on footwork. If you lack the strength to make big moves, then train. If it's mostly your head, then climb more committing routes within your onsight level. Most likely, you'll want to do a combination. If there is a specific project you have your eyes on then go for it. Otherwise, work on your skills as a complete climber and the harder grades will follow. Just a thought...
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AlexCV
Sep 11, 2008, 3:44 PM
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First, I don't climb (by that I mean redpoint or better) .11s, so whatever I say isn't the most applicable. For the longest time, I limited myself to trying things only slightly harder then what I can on sight. Progress was very slow. Now I'm much more willing to try leading 2-3 grades above my comfort and top-rope anything I can get off the ground on. I've been climbing grades more steadily (one letter grade at a time, but still).
When I limit myself to my comfort zone, I can always salvage mistakes and bad movement / position with more efforts. When I push, a screw up usually means some air-time, just yesterday I spent some time working on a .12b in the gym. There's no way I can send it and every go means having to repeat a sequence that's as hard as anything I've ever climbed, but I can feel the benefit on other climbs with increased confidence and better moves on big slopers.
So yeah, project some hard stuff (whatever that may be for you) as part of a balanced climbing diet.
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jt512
Sep 11, 2008, 3:56 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: ... I redpoint it with one or two falls..... Sorry for all the terminology... I know some people get tired of it all. I certainly do.
I certainly get tired of it being used incorrectly.
In reply to: ...I'm going to be at RRG for a few months and then back to Thailand for 5 months and want to have a little game plan that might get me into the mid 7's (that's French for .12's).
Self-Coached Climber
Jay
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rtwilli4
Sep 11, 2008, 4:17 PM
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jt512 wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: ... I redpoint it with one or two falls..... Sorry for all the terminology... I know some people get tired of it all. I certainly do. I certainly get tired of it being used incorrectly. In reply to: ...I'm going to be at RRG for a few months and then back to Thailand for 5 months and want to have a little game plan that might get me into the mid 7's (that's French for .12's). Jay
what does a red point mean? is it when you climb it clean... just not the first time? sorry I really don't know what all the terms mean. I had to look up flash just to make sure I was using it right.
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armsrforclimbing
Sep 11, 2008, 4:19 PM
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The right answer is "yes." Next question.
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jmeizis
Sep 11, 2008, 4:31 PM
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The only way to climb harder routes is to get on harder routes. I'm kind of the same way, I pretty much only get on things that I can onsight. It limits me in ability because I'm too lazy to focus on a project for more than five minutes. If you project you'll learn harder moves and build strength for those harder moves. Eventually youll be able to link all those 5.12 moves and you'll redpoint and eventually perhaps onsight 5.12's. If you only onsight you won't be climbing 5.12's for a long time.
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jt512
Sep 11, 2008, 4:32 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: jt512 wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: ... I redpoint it with one or two falls..... Sorry for all the terminology... I know some people get tired of it all. I certainly do. I certainly get tired of it being used incorrectly. In reply to: ...I'm going to be at RRG for a few months and then back to Thailand for 5 months and want to have a little game plan that might get me into the mid 7's (that's French for .12's). Jay what does a red point mean? is it when you climb it clean... just not the first time? sorry I really don't know what all the terms mean. I had to look up flash just to make sure I was using it right.
A redpoint is when you've led it clean. Additionally, the term usually implies that you didn't flash the route.
Jay
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AlexCV
Sep 11, 2008, 4:40 PM
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jt512 wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: ... I redpoint it with one or two falls..... Sorry for all the terminology... I know some people get tired of it all. I certainly do. I certainly get tired of it being used incorrectly.
Being more charitable, I read that to imply he red pointed it after one or two tries. Perhaps the improper use of red point is a regional thing.
(This post was edited by AlexCV on Sep 11, 2008, 4:47 PM)
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jt512
Sep 11, 2008, 4:49 PM
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AlexCV wrote: jt512 wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: ... I redpoint it with one or two falls..... Sorry for all the terminology... I know some people get tired of it all. I certainly do. I certainly get tired of it being used incorrectly. Being perhaps more charitable, I read that to imply he red pointed it after one or two tries. Perhaps the improper use of red point is a regional thing.
I disagree that it is you who was the more charitable. At least I assumed that he can write grammatically correct English.
Jay
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onceahardman
Sep 11, 2008, 5:17 PM
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In reply to: Am I missing out... would I be climbing harder right now if I projected a .12a or concentrated on redpointing .11d's?
Well, if you want to climb 12s, you won't get there by climbing 11s.
I agree with jay about SCC...the technical improvements therein will be the quickest way to up your diff.
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rtwilli4
Sep 11, 2008, 5:29 PM
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Thanks guys. At this point I probably couldn't onsight an .11b but I think within a few weeks of starting to climb again I will be able to. I've never been to the Red so we'll see. Either way, I am going to try and focus more on projects and working routes. I really do want to climb .12's and haven't been able to keep a regular strength training schedule this summer so I know it's gonna be tough.
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sidepull
Sep 11, 2008, 5:44 PM
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onceahardman wrote: In reply to: Am I missing out... would I be climbing harder right now if I projected a .12a or concentrated on redpointing .11d's? Well, if you want to climb 12s, you won't get there by climbing 11s. I agree with jay about SCC...the technical improvements therein will be the quickest way to up your diff.
agreed. read. learn. apply.
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granite_grrl
Sep 11, 2008, 10:12 PM
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I think you want someone to tell you yes....so, yes...
I tend to like projecting bolted stuff, onsighting gear climbs. Keeps things challanging and exciting.
And stay off the top rope. Why would you bother being on a top rope on a route you can lead (even if its only bolt to bolt...even if you have to grab a draw here and there....). I haven't been the best at following this myself in the past, but I've been learning the error in my ways.
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spikeddem
Sep 11, 2008, 10:44 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: I tend to like projecting bolted stuff, onsighting gear climbs. Keeps things challanging and exciting.
:^)
Agreed!!
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