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go_dyno
May 5, 2008, 4:10 AM
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I climb with the old BD Vipers with all the after thought attachments...fang, etc. I love them and I like the old Cobra for its more versatile nature. I was wondering now that the New Cobra is less versatile and VERY much in appearance to the New Vipers (not a radical change from the old Vipers) what opinions people were having with the New Cobra and what real differences people noticed between the 2??? Thanks!
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mattb1921
May 5, 2008, 3:03 PM
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I have the new vipers and have swung the new cobras for a few pitches. I like the cobras due to the way they swing and stick (real smooth). They felt real nice on vertical. They do have more of a curve in the shaft than the vipers and you can tell. I purchased the new vipers because I got such a great deal on them that I could not pass it up. I also have the Petzl nomics which I use for pure vert ice so I was not looking for a perfect vert ice tool. With that said I have to say that I have been very happy with the Vipers for pure ice. I did buy them for alpine climbs but have used them for long ice routes. If I could only have one tool (assuming I did not have the nomics) I would have gotten the cobras because I liked the way they swung more and the weight was great. Also the little extra bend in the shaft felt nice as well. I also think that they would be fine for plunging into the snow if you needed to use them for that as well.
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vterinme
May 5, 2008, 4:30 PM
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I bought the new Vipers in mid- March and have had nothing but joy using them. It takes a few routes to get used to the swing and bite but after that they're just pure joy. I've had no problem with them on longer alpine routes, but you'll have to be more attentive in Piolet Cane for the first few outings. The only downside and this would be the same for the Cobras is glissading, too many knoby features. The reason I picked them up as opposed to the Cobras was the price difference. The benefits of the Cobras were minimal compared to the savings.
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stymingersfink
May 6, 2008, 3:48 PM
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vterinme wrote: I bought the new Vipers in mid- March and have had nothing but joy using them. It takes a few routes to get used to the swing and bite but after that they're just pure joy. I've had no problem with them on longer alpine routes, but you'll have to be more attentive in Piolet Cane for the first few outings. The only downside and this would be the same for the Cobras is glissading, too many knoby features. The reason I picked them up as opposed to the Cobras was the price difference. The benefits of the Cobras were minimal compared to the savings. The Cobras, OTOH, are good to go out of the gate. Swing like a dream and stick like that first kiss in high school. Well worth the money, I'll be replacing my original Vipers with the New Cobra for next season, as they are the only thing which COULD replace the original Viper IMHO. The New Vipers? Not so much.
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go_dyno
May 7, 2008, 10:18 AM
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What differences have you noticed in the Old Vipers vs New Vipers? I have the old and love them too, but I have had to duct tape over the hose clamped shrike or what ever the thing is called so the hose clamp screw head doesn't tear up my gloves and was debating between the New Viper or New Cobra for next year.
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go_dyno
May 7, 2008, 10:22 AM
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I guess the reason I started this thread was because I could see big differences btween the Old Viper and Old Cobras b/c they filled different niches and I can only see a Frog's Hair of a difference between the New Viper and New Cobra, now that the New Cobra is not meant to be as versatile as the Old Cobra.
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stymingersfink
May 7, 2008, 2:28 PM
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go_dyno wrote: I can only see a Frog's Hair of a difference between the New Viper and New Cobra, now that the New Cobra is not meant to be as versatile as the Old Cobra. That's what I was answering toward, in that there would appear to be very little difference between the two by sight, but a world of difference in the two by feel.
go_dyno wrote: the New Cobra is not meant to be as versatile as the Old Cobra. Are you entirely sure about that?
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go_dyno
May 7, 2008, 6:22 PM
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I'm rarely sure about anything It just seems when you go from a very plungeable straighter shaft on the Old Cobra to a more radically curved shaft with a fang on the New Cobra that the New Cobra won't work as well for traditional alpine pursuits and wasn't intended to do its old job, but was intended by BD to be Viper-like but in a higher price point. A friend of mine who climbs Himalayas and the like uses an ice axe and an Old Cobra b/c on really steep snow the Old Cobra works just fine as an ice axe for plunging and then can become an ice tool on more technical sections. I don't see the New Cobra as intended to fit this niche, but then again I am NOT sure, so I thought I'd ask for a more experienced opinion
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stymingersfink
May 7, 2008, 6:44 PM
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the fang and shelf are easily removed if necessary. I think the new Cobras would make a much better alpine tool than my Vipers. Admittedly, I'm not. Steve-F*cking-House. but I'd rather climb anything in Alaska with the new Cobra over the old Cobra, and I wouldn't even consider taking my Vipers into such terrain.
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beyond_gravity
Oct 1, 2008, 1:42 AM
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i'm going to bump this topic again as the ice season is closing in, and no one actually answered the question asked. I too have wondered about these two tools. I can definitely feel a difference in the swing. The cobra is much more top heavy. I don't care what anyone says, there is MAYBE an extra 1/4" of clearance with the cobra. Not enough, in my opinion, to really make a difference. Also, has anyone actually taken off the pummel and fang? you'll notice that there is still a bunch of grip sticking out the bottom that will definitely comprimise plunging, but to what degree, i'm not sure of (this is identical on both the viper and cobra). by the way, saying you'd take one tool over the other without explaining why is completely useless to everyone.
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gargrantuan
Oct 2, 2008, 8:04 PM
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why would anyone buy a technical tool for plunging? the cobra imo has a more dampened stick and feels more solid. i like it a lot.
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the_climber
Oct 3, 2008, 12:03 AM
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beyond_gravity wrote: i'm going to bump this topic again as the ice season is closing in, and no one actually answered the question asked. I too have wondered about these two tools. I can definitely feel a difference in the swing. The cobra is much more top heavy. I don't care what anyone says, there is MAYBE an extra 1/4" of clearance with the cobra. Not enough, in my opinion, to really make a difference. Also, has anyone actually taken off the pummel and fang? you'll notice that there is still a bunch of grip sticking out the bottom that will definitely comprimise plunging, but to what degree, i'm not sure of (this is identical on both the viper and cobra). I'll let you know what my full opinion of the new cobras is when I try my partners out as soon as the ice forms. All ov the feed back I've had from others in the Canadian Chossies is that the new vipers are shite and the cobras are worlds better than them.
beyond_gravity wrote: by the way, saying you'd take one tool over the other without explaining why is completely useless to everyone. Sty (aka. stinky fingers) was an opinionated mo fo, but any of his oppinions were always valid without needing an explaination, just like there is no need to explain why an old jeep is always breaking down. FYI, Sty passed a few weeks ago. Calling out a dead guy = Not cool.
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deltav
Oct 3, 2008, 12:54 AM
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I thought this thread was about cars...
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harpo_the_climber
Dec 14, 2008, 3:14 PM
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any updates on the new cobra as an alpine tool?
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