Oct 1, 2008, 6:20 PM
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Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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In the past six months, two climbers fell to their death while rapping . Both climbers accidentally used the 10 meter end mark as the middle mark and fell from the end of the line when one side ended up 50 feet short.
Oct 1, 2008, 6:44 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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In reference to your question, it is hard to understand why a rope would be marked 10m or 10 ft from the end of the rope. I have been climbing for quiet a while and NEVER seen a rope marked that close to the end. What brand of rope is this and was it commercially marked or was it marked by the climber ?
Unless they mark ropes differently in Australia there should be no markings that close to the end for that reason.
I personally mark the centre of my ropes with a double line | | so that I know that it is the centre and I place no other marks on the rope.
Difficult to ascertain a complete answer unless all the facts are presented.
Oct 1, 2008, 7:04 PM
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Re: [davidwebb1969] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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davidwebb1969 wrote:
In reference to your question, it is hard to understand why a rope would be marked 10m or 10 ft from the end of the rope. I have been climbing for quiet a while and NEVER seen a rope marked that close to the end. What brand of rope is this and was it commercially marked or was it marked by the climber ?
Petzl and Mammut mark their ropes in this fashion. I believe the marks are typically 5 to 6 meters from each end, as well as in the middle of the rope.
Edited to add: there may be other manufacturers that do this as well.
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Oct 1, 2008, 7:06 PM)
Oct 1, 2008, 8:46 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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The markings on the middles are different from the ends Climbing is a dangerous sport. Potentially deadly. So when dealing with something dangerous should'nt you pay close attention to what your doing?It is sad that people are dyeing and condolences go out to their loved ones but it is because of their own iggnorance that this is happening. Not the manufacturers of the products.
I have a petzl with markings at the middle and boths ends. Personally I like the markings.
Oct 1, 2008, 8:53 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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People are dangerous, not markings.
You use the middle marker as a guide. But people still rap off the ends.
You use the 30m marker as a guide. But people mistake them as the middle marker and fall.
You gotta use your head, triple check everything, don't rush, use a light in the dark, tie knots at the end, remember to untie knots, and on and on it goes.
The question is pretty goofy. Anything is unsafe if you don't use your head.
Oct 1, 2008, 8:59 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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majid_sabet wrote:
cracklover wrote:
As usual, Majid, I think your question is phrased so poorly as to make giving a good answer impossible.
However, I don't think these ropes should be sold in the US any more.
GO
Why not in USA ?
Do you think American climbers are stupid and lazy ?
blind , careless or ignorant ?
To the best of my knowledge, the only rappelling accidents where someone mistook the end marks for middle marks have been in the US. If it starts happening in Europe, too, then I'd argue that they stop selling them there.
As usual, Majid, I think your question is phrased so poorly as to make giving a good answer impossible.
However, I don't think these ropes should be sold in the US any more.
GO
Why not in USA ?
Do you think American climbers are stupid and lazy ?
blind , careless or ignorant ?
To the best of my knowledge, the only rappelling accidents where someone mistook the end marks for middle marks have been in the US. If it starts happening in Europe, too, then I'd argue that they stop selling them there.
GO
You are right. I go thru tons of accident reports per year and only seen two. Both were in North America and both happened in the past six months.
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Oct 1, 2008, 9:45 PM)
Oct 1, 2008, 9:40 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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I didn't vote because I don't think that the markings are unsafe, but I do think that having them introduces another potential for user error especially in a case where you are not thinking especially clearly (such as in any epic situation when dealing with hunger, sleepiness, fatigue, cold, dark, anything like this). I will never buy one of these ropes for this reason.
Oct 1, 2008, 10:13 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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The markings themselves on a rope are safe. How someone interprets those markings is what can become unsafe. Just as someone could interpret that a knot was completely tied when in fact it wasn't.
I won't be buying a rope that has more than a middle mark on it. I'll also verify the middle mark.
Oct 1, 2008, 10:48 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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majid_sabet wrote:
In the past six months, two climbers fell to their death while rapping . Both climbers accidentally used the 10 meter end mark as the middle mark and fell from the end of the line when one side ended up 50 feet short.
Are these marking safe or unsafe ?
It seems there was a lot more at play than just the middle marks if they messed up that bad.
Oct 1, 2008, 11:03 PM
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Re: [chossmonkey] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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i'm not sure i have answers to why these things happen, But some other interesting questions would be
how long have the ropes been on the market? are they sold with an explanation of why they are marked thus? Are they sold with a warning of mistaking the marks? Why are the marks not closer to the ends where they would be unmistakeable for middle marks but give you enough reaction time to stop if you were about to repel/abseil off them? Why are there so many repelling accidents versus leading etc? Is there enough awareness of the dangers of rapelling??
These are purely meant to stimulate thought surrounding the topic. i'm not trying to derail the thread just provoke thought
Oct 1, 2008, 11:10 PM
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Re: [chossmonkey] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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chossmonkey wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
In the past six months, two climbers fell to their death while rapping . Both climbers accidentally used the 10 meter end mark as the middle mark and fell from the end of the line when one side ended up 50 feet short.
Are these marking safe or unsafe ?
It seems there was a lot more at play than just the middle marks if they messed up that bad.
This is true, but would the other things in play have caused the accident without the marking as a finisher? While I don't think they are completely at fault, I don't think they would help with much, if at all, in any situation I've found myself in- so I would prefer a rope without them.
Oct 1, 2008, 11:13 PM
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Re: [chossmonkey] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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chossmonkey wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
In the past six months, two climbers fell to their death while rapping . Both climbers accidentally used the 10 meter end mark as the middle mark and fell from the end of the line when one side ended up 50 feet short.
Are these marking safe or unsafe ?
It seems there was a lot more at play than just the middle marks if they messed up that bad.
one of the person who died was an oldskooler with a pretty good climbing resume so if someone with 30 years of experience makes that sort of mistake, what do you think n00bs will do?
Oct 1, 2008, 11:36 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Marking on ropes, is it safe or unsafe
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Your poll question is a bit ambiguous - i like centre marks and think they're great. i dont think there should be end marks, although the onus should still be on the climber to at least visually verify the ends of his/her rope before rapping, or at the very least, tie a damn knot on the ends.
Your poll refers to "markings" which could mean "end marks" or "end and centre" marks. I vote unsafe, as i assume you mean end marks.
majid_sabet wrote:
In the past six months, two climbers fell to their death while rapping . Both climbers accidentally used the 10 meter end mark as the middle mark and fell from the end of the line when one side ended up 50 feet short.
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