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yeahyeahyeah
Nov 11, 2008, 7:27 PM
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I hurt my shoulder in late june. Fell on an overhanging roof, barn-doored and caught myself with my right arm as my body was facing away from the wall and felt two pops close together with imediate pain. My first thought was that I dislocated it, it was numb and painfull to lift at all. But after catching my breath I regained feeling and it seemed alright and I could move it but not far above my head.
So I RICE'd it and stayed off of it untill late october. I went up to the NRG and was climbing with no pain. while leading a route I felt a pop again and the pain came back but not as bad as the first time. The next day I climbed with no pain or issues but took it easy.
recently while playing frisbee, I threw an overhand "hammer" and it hurt like hell. I didn't think I could hurt my shoulder while fucking throwing a frisbee. But after reading a lot about rotator cuff injuries now, I found out that overhand throws are a no-no.
My shoulder doesn't hurt now, but when I climb it feels really unstable and I'm afraid to really pull with it or put weight on it.
So connective tissue doesn't re-attach itself naturaly?
I'm starting to think that if I don't get surgery I'm going to completely blow out my shoulder.
The only thing keeping me from going to the doc is $$. My parents are putting the power bills and food on credit cards. I'm working two jobs trying to get a degree and I'm uninsured. I can't get insurance now because my injury is a fucking "pre-existing condition" and it won't be covered...and I can't afford it anyway.
As an asside, let me just say FUCK the insurance industry and everyone who works for it. Grow a conscience you fucking parasites.
So here is my question. For those of you who have had shoulder/rotator cuff surgery, how much did your surgery and pt treatment cost?
Thanks in advance for any info.
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kmsmoguls
Nov 11, 2008, 7:40 PM
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Hello. I am a PT in the Boston area and have worked with a lot of shoulder injuries and it sounds like you may have subluxed your shoulder, which is leading to your complaints of instability. However, without more testing/evaluation it is very difficult say specifically what is wrong. How is your ROM now? What movements feel unstable or you have pain with?
My recommendation would be to contact a PT clinic that has experience treating shoulder injuries. You may be able to work something out so you can pay per visit. Usually if you pay cash they charge you less than they charge insurance companies. If there is no major ligament or joint capsule damage aggressive PT will be able to strengthen everything and increase joint stability so that you can function. You maybe able to do a lot on your own with a comprehensive home exercise program to help keep your cost down. If you have any other question just pm me. Good luck
Erik
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onceahardman
Nov 11, 2008, 8:27 PM
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I agree completely with Erik, but have more to add...
In reply to: So connective tissue doesn't re-attach itself naturaly?
Sure it does. It's just that "naturally" is maybe not what's best. If you tear a muscle, (for example), the torn ends will retract away from each other, with no way to re-approximate. Then, they will scar down, which is the "natural" method of re-attachment. You lose most or all of the function of the torn muscle for a complete tear. A surgeon could re-approximate and suture a torn muscle., which could then heal in a "better" but less "natural" way.
Next:
In reply to: As an asside, let me just say FUCK the insurance industry and everyone who works for it. Grow a conscience you fucking parasites.
WOW. I don't want to come off as an insurance company shill, as I'm not. Health insurance is a product one purchases, or chooses not to purchase. If you choose not to, well, that's really not the insurance company's fault. Had you saved the money, rather than paying the premiums, you'd likely have enough money to pay at least for your PT. Health care is not cheap. It is about to become MUCH more expensive, once the government is running it.
You chose not to purchase a product, and then blame the product you did not purchase.
And then, you call them "parasites"...check your definitions, YOU are the one who wants treatment, without paying for it.
If you are at a low income, their may be some medicare-type benefit you could get. I don't know, I've never personally applied for any social services.
What part of the country are you in?
EDITED:
Pretend, for a moment, that you owned an insurance company. Joe Blow doesn't buy any insurance, hurts his back, and pays a, say, $300 premium for the first month, then expects you to lay out $50,000 for a spinal fusion. Then he cancels his policy. You are out $49,700. How long can you afford to do that?
That's why the term "pre-existing condition" applies.
(This post was edited by onceahardman on Nov 11, 2008, 9:13 PM)
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yeahyeahyeah
Nov 11, 2008, 9:34 PM
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Erik,
Thanks. As of right now I don't feel any pain unless I rapidly wieght it or so something fast like throw and overhand.
I have a full ROM but whenever the arm is above my head it feels unstable and weak. Hard to describe, it just doesn't feel right. Occasionaly when climbing I'll feel a painless pop that feels like cracking a knucle, only with my shoulder. I can do pull ups with no problem but if I do a dead hang I have to engage the muscles in that shoulder because it doesn't feel like it will hold. It can hold a dead hang though, it just doesn't feel right and it scares me.
Onceahardman,
I'm in NC, charlotte area.
I'm not looking to get into an insurance debate but its a touchy subject for me. I've been screwed a lot of times when it comes to health care. There is a huge crack in the system between insurance and government care. I'm working two jobs to pay my way through school. I'm no freeloader, I just can't afford it. The government can't help me out and I still can't afford insurance. Meanwhile insurance companies make huge profits because they provide bare minimum care unless you have big bucks, at which point affording care is not that big of a problem for you anyway. The "service" the insurance companies provide is really expensive and shitty care. Yeah, maybe I could afford some insurance but I still wouldn't be able to make the high deductables. So, I'm not going to bend over for them to fuck me over again.
If you'll read my original post, you'll see that I was asking about how much it cost others to get surgery/pt done because I'm going to try to get it done on my own dime.
I'm trying really hard not to get personal. Maybe you should have done the same before implying that I'm a parasite. Walk a mile in my shoes buddy. Thats all I have to say about that.
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angry
Nov 11, 2008, 9:42 PM
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So um, through Aetna, I buy insurance.
It's $92 a month, has a $3000 deductible and after that everything is totally covered.
If I get cancer, shove my femur into my stomach, blow my shoulder, or get a hit and run on my bike, I'm covered 100% after the first $3000. That and I get 2 teeth cleanings a year.
I'm completely self employed, there is no employer help, this is just the cost of insurance.
I don't have any conditions and I'm in generally good shape so I'm not into the doctor often. If you need to have regular visits, this would probably be a bit too pricey.
Look into it though, health insurance is affordable.
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dynosore
Nov 11, 2008, 9:46 PM
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If you look at any commonly used ratio or measure of profitability, insurance companies really don't make much. Sorry you don't have health insurance, but it's not a grand conspiracy against you. I had to take a full time job so I could have insurance while putting myself through college. Obviously the economy is tough right now, I wish you good luck.
Mind you, no one made you rock climb. You CHOSE to and now you're hurt. Don't think I don't empathize, cuz I do, but you come off as just another "I made my problem now someone else fix it" whiner, and we have more than enough of that already in America.
Look from their perspective: WHY would they take you on with this condition, knowing you're going to immediately have an expensive claim. If they don't make money, they go out of business....their employees have families and mortgages too....
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yeahyeahyeah
Nov 11, 2008, 10:09 PM
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Let me reiterate my original intent.
I'm paying my own way here. If anyone has had a similar shoulder injury, please give me a number so I can start saving up.
We all know how insurance works and doesn't work, so lets not make it a disscussion about insurance.
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hansolo
Nov 11, 2008, 10:53 PM
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I had a similar experience when I broke the 4th metacarpal in my right hand, and did not have insurance at the time. An orthopedic x-rayed the hand and put it in a splint here in Raleigh NC. I think I was charged close to half of what I would have been charged if I had insurance. Including a few visits to the orthopedic and one visit to a hand therapist who made me a custom formed splint, I paid around $1,000. I understand surgery can be quite a bit more, especially if you need general anesthesia.
Not to hijack your post with a rant about the insurance system but . . . .
I have to say there is something fundamentally wrong with the medical insurance system. If a fully insured person develops a catastrophic illness, the cost of their medical care can be very large. Assuming that the insurance company that caries their policy is a profitable company, every dollar spent on this person's medical care is a dollar off of the bottom line. Therefore, they have a financial incentive to find a way to deny this person's coverage. In other words if someone in the company can justify denying coverage due to a pre-existing condition or other reason, then someone in the insurance company will receive a raise or a bonus. This prevents those that need health care the most from receiving it. I believe this is a fatal flaw of the system and is reason enough to change it.
Now, I wouldn't advocate putting the health care system entirely in the hands of the government, but I would like to see it move in that direction.
Although the government is notoriously inefficient, I would prefer an inefficient organization over one that has a financial incentive to deny my coverage.
Good luck with your shoulder.
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tarsier
Nov 11, 2008, 11:01 PM
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I forgot what my rotator cuff surgery cost, but I'm quite sure I could have done all of the PT myself with a few free weights and elastic bands.
Incidentally, I have been blatantly screwed out of $3,000 by United Healthcare.
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rtwilli4
Nov 11, 2008, 11:17 PM
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hansolo wrote: Not to hijack your post with a rant about the insurance system but . . . . I have to say there is something fundamentally wrong with the medical insurance system. If a fully insured person develops a catastrophic illness, the cost of their medical care can be very large. Assuming that the insurance company that caries their policy is a profitable company, every dollar spent on this person's medical care is a dollar off of the bottom line. Therefore, they have a financial incentive to find a way to deny this person's coverage. In other words if someone in the company can justify denying coverage due to a pre-existing condition or other reason, then someone in the insurance company will receive a raise or a bonus. This prevents those that need health care the most from receiving it. I believe this is a fatal flaw of the system and is reason enough to change it. Now, I wouldn't advocate putting the health care system entirely in the hands of the government, but I would like to see it move in that direction. Although the government is notoriously inefficient, I would prefer an inefficient organization over one that has a financial incentive to deny my coverage. Good luck with your shoulder.
Agreed. It is fucked up. Plain and simple. It should not be COMPLETELY profit driven... but as much as I hate to admit it, capitalism keeps the standard of care pretty high. I think the government getting into it a little bit will help.
I have the same plan as "Angry" up there. Take it from an unemployed dirt bag who eats sardines and a scoop of peanut butter for breakfast... and lunch! $92 bucks a month ain't bad for the standard of care we get in this country. I feel for ya bro but not as much as I do for the millions of people who will die without insurance. $92 bucks a month equals:
two tanks of gas
3 bottles of whiskey
two less nights at the bar
a cheaper apt
....
I could go on and on.... If I can afford it, you can.
Good luck man. It doesn't sound like you have found any professional help yet so save up some cash and get to a doctor... maybe it's not as bad as you think. OR, get in insurance plan, wait 6 months, and go hurt your shoulder again. OR, take out a loan, put it on a credit card, sell your car, deal some drugs... do whatever it takes but blaming the insurance companies won't help, even though I think you're right about them.
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roy_hinkley_jr
Nov 11, 2008, 11:23 PM
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Nobody can give you a price quote without knowing the extent of the damage. But a Bankhart procedure is probably in the 15k range by the time all is said and done; more if you're really messed up.
Since you haven't dislocated, just a subluxation, I'd be hitting the free weights in the gym 3 days a week for the next six months with a well planned routine. But there are a lot of popular shoulder-unfriendly exercises that you must watch out for. So do some homework.
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dynosore
Nov 12, 2008, 12:09 AM
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10k for shoulder surgery, I've had both done for slightly different reasons but the price was about the same. Don't forget to add to this MRI's, PT, etc. An expensive proposition with no insurance. Find a good orthopedic surgeon !!!!who understands climbing injuries!!!!, get a diagnosis, and see if you can work it out without going under the knife.
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michal104
Nov 12, 2008, 1:45 AM
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Hey there. Sorry to hear about your injury and lack of health insurance. Definitely a tough spot to be in.
Here's the deal - it doesn't seem like you can afford the surgery at this point. My advice is to get insured, wait a while and "hurt your shoulder again" as someone mentioned.
That said, there are a lot of things you could do now to make it feel better. As climbers, we tend to have lax ligaments in the shoulder capsule due to weighting our shoulders in weird, compromising positions on a regular basis. Usually that's not a problem because our should muscles are well developed and do a good job of keeping the shoulder in place. You seem to have subluxed your shoulder and then taken time off afterwards...not a bad idea but it probably led to a great deal of muscle atrophy. You need to be using those muscles and building them up by doing anything you can that doesn't hurt your shoulder - climbing, weights, theraband exercises. You can find a comprehensive rotator cuff strengthening program online and buy a theraband for $15 and get to work.
For what it's worth, I did a similar thing to my shoulder this spring. It felt weird and unstable for a while, but I kept climbing on things that didn't hurt it, used weights and therabands and now it feels about 99% healed (I can dyno and catch myself on the injured arm but some moves with my arm out to the side still feel a bit weird). These things can take a while to heal (6 months or so) but if you are proactive there is a good chance you can get by with no surgery. Doesn't seem like you have a complete tear based on what you describe.
Good luck.
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onceahardman
Nov 12, 2008, 1:47 AM
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In reply to: Assuming that the insurance company that caries their policy is a profitable company, every dollar spent on this person's medical care is a dollar off of the bottom line. Therefore, they have a financial incentive to find a way to deny this person's coverage.
That's a bit of a logical disconnect. A company selling a product will not be in business very long if the people who purchase that product are dissatisfied with it. Insurance companies DO attempt to make sure that medical treatment is appropriate and effective. In my pratice I have seen surgeries and other medical procedures performed when such procedure was inappropriate. I have seen surgeries which had NO CHANCE of being effective performed, billed, and paid by insurance companies.
Among the most common examples of this are various chronic pain syndromes. Joe Blow (again) hurts his back. He goes to the doc, gets pain killers and muscle relaxants (paid by insurance). His back still hurts. He gets an X ray (paid by insurance). His back still hurts. He goes for chiropractic (maybe private pay, maybe insurance assists). His back still hurts. He gets an MRI (insurance pays) showing left sided disk damage. All his symptoms are right sided. He sees the surgeon (insurance pays) has surgery (insurance pays) to address the left sided damage seen on MRI. Post surgically, patient still has his original right sided pain, $10K-50K later.
Many (most) conditions are treated very well by western medicine. Chronic pain isnt among them.
Insurance companies are now trying to advise doctors to tell their patients to get out of bed and back to work as quickly as possible. Then patients get pissed off, and think the insurance company is "screwing" them, when statistically, just getting moving again is the most appropriate treatment.
But, docs don't make much money doing that, so they aren't happy either.
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aerili
Nov 12, 2008, 2:11 AM
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Is there at least a student health center wherever you go to school? Or does the school offer any insurance option to purchase for students which would be a group plan? (and therefore unable to exclude pre-existing conditions)
I don't know what you do for work, but I know some companies like Starbucks and Home Depot offer health insurance even to employees who work part time. Of course there is no guarantee you can just go get a job with a certain company, but it's something to think about.
hansolo wrote: I have to say there is something fundamentally wrong with the medical insurance system. If a fully insured person develops a catastrophic illness, the cost of their medical care can be very large. Assuming that the insurance company that caries their policy is a profitable company, every dollar spent on this person's medical care is a dollar off of the bottom line. Therefore, they have a financial incentive to find a way to deny this person's coverage. In other words if someone in the company can justify denying coverage due to a pre-existing condition or other reason, then someone in the insurance company will receive a raise or a bonus. This prevents those that need health care the most from receiving it. I believe this is a fatal flaw of the system and is reason enough to change it.
Something similar has happened to my aunt and uncle. My aunt was struck with one of the rarest forms of an autoimmune disorder possible--neurosarcoidosis (1 in 40 million, she is only the 4th person EVER dx'd in the U.S.). For two years, many rounds of dumb doctors in Tucson, AZ fucked around saying they thought her progressing symptoms were stupid shit like migraines or MS.
Eventually she collapsed one day, paralyzed from the waist down. Of course at that point, all the doctors said, "Oh, I have no idea what is going on. Go to the Mayo Clinic!"
So they did and got a diagnosis in only 2 hours from a specialist. But her insurance, to which my aunt and uncle had been faithfully paying their premiums for several years, denied the coverage at Mayo, saying it was out of network...even though no other doctors in the entire city had the expertise to figure it out and explicitly referred them there.
So my uncle started paying all the bills out of his own pocket and continued to do so for quite some time. I believe her in-patient stay was something like $10K a day and she ended up being there for 2 weeks total, not to mention the spinal cord biopsy surgery she required, etc.
Finally she was released and went to Tucson to do in-patient rehab for a while. She took prednisone and was starting to get better to some degree, regain some mobility and sensation.
Then the insurance company denied the further Rx of her daily blood thinner med due to cost. A few weeks after that, she suddenly had a large cerebral stroke.
Now she is fully paralyzed on one entire side at age 47 and has cognitive deficits to some degree as well. She was starting to stand up again with a walker before the stroke but now it's unclear if she will ever be mobile again.
Of course she lost her job and her COBRA ran out, so now she has no insurance at all and of course no company will cover her, but the government requires my uncle (who makes good money) to somehow have less than $2K in the bank to qualify for any government-funded care at all.
The insurance company was Healthnet; they now have a large class-action lawsuit against them for denying claims and you better believe my uncle and aunt have signed on to get all their costs reimbursed.
It's really quite sickening to me.
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onceahardman
Nov 12, 2008, 2:18 AM
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Hey, yeahyeahyeah...
Sorry if I came off as a dick. I usually try to be helpful, but you sounded like you were expecting something for nothing.
Anyway, (coming from a former recurrent shoulder dislocator) your best course is a very intensive cuff strengthening regimen, as several here have stated. I'm a PT in western NY state, but my brother (also a climber/PT) is kind of your way, near Hickory, NC, actually Taylorsville.
While internet research is very helpful, I'd strongly recommend going to a PT for a few visits first, to make sure your technique is perfect. If you don't do it exactly right, you may as well not do anything.
Up here, most universities require health insurance to attend school. Doesn't yours? If you purchase insurance throught a large group, like a university, you are often exempt from "pre-existing condition" rules, because the risk is spread out for the insurance company.
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shockabuku
Nov 12, 2008, 3:06 AM
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hansolo wrote: I had a similar experience when I broke the 4th metacarpal in my right hand, and did not have insurance at the time. An orthopedic x-rayed the hand and put it in a splint here in Raleigh NC. I think I was charged close to half of what I would have been charged if I had insurance. Including a few visits to the orthopedic and one visit to a hand therapist who made me a custom formed splint, I paid around $1,000. I understand surgery can be quite a bit more, especially if you need general anesthesia. Not to hijack your post with a rant about the insurance system but . . . . I have to say there is something fundamentally wrong with the medical insurance system. If a fully insured person develops a catastrophic illness, the cost of their medical care can be very large. Assuming that the insurance company that caries their policy is a profitable company, every dollar spent on this person's medical care is a dollar off of the bottom line. Therefore, they have a financial incentive to find a way to deny this person's coverage. In other words if someone in the company can justify denying coverage due to a pre-existing condition or other reason, then someone in the insurance company will receive a raise or a bonus. This prevents those that need health care the most from receiving it. I believe this is a fatal flaw of the system and is reason enough to change it. Now, I wouldn't advocate putting the health care system entirely in the hands of the government, but I would like to see it move in that direction. Although the government is notoriously inefficient, I would prefer an inefficient organization over one that has a financial incentive to deny my coverage. Good luck with your shoulder.
I think you're seeing the greener grass on the other side of the fence.
Having had Blue Cross/Blue Shield for some years, including some significant medical care, and then having had government provided health care through the military, I'd much rather have the Blue Cross/Blue Shield.
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jollymon
Nov 12, 2008, 7:18 AM
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I also have to agree as a student myself also that there is a harsh disconnect with the medical industry and students in particular. I was paying my premiums to UNICARE under the SOUND program at $132 a month. Faithfullly on time every time. I had a 2G deduct and went in for a standard checkup (which was supposed to be free) and the doc said we need to remove and check out this mole for SC on ya. Okay so I call up UNIOCARE tell them whats up. They are like sure great you have to pay the first 2G. (however my office visit was supposed to be free, as well as my routine bloodwork) bam I get the bills for over 2G. I pay the 2 grand, then guess what? They shift my coverage to 3G and put me on a different plan. without my signing or consenting to anything! I pay the rest of my medical bills (now 1 grand more then I was expecting) then they tell me that they dont offer coverage for SC or any cancers! Im like WTF!@#(!@#( so I tell them to shove there policy they illegally changed and give me my premiums back. In writing. 2 weeks later they write me back revoking my coverage, telling me they will not give me any money back, telling me they are sorry for the mis-communication!!!!! SO TO THOSE WITH "BUDGET" PLANS BEWARE!!!!!! None of this was pre-existing and if you dont meet their bottom line, then forget it. The state attorney general said they would look into it if more people complain, but only if its alot. Really freaking nice! However prior to them I had humana and enjoyed them living up to their word. Right now I am a student with no insurance, save the free clinic at the school and my family doc who understands Im poor and charges $40 per visit. Now I also have a nice pre existing with a company that basically had me grab my ankles for a bad ride. FREAKIN' Insurance.
That said climbing is dangerous and if you F yourself up then yea, u best have insurance or live with the consequences...else dont climb. Good luck with the shoulder!
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Nov 12, 2008, 12:18 PM
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onceahardman wrote: Hey, yeahyeahyeah... Sorry if I came off as a dick...
Don't worry, I'll make you seem nice!
Skipping over all those people who have a personal story of an insurance company doing something wrong with them (I’m not in their customer service department) and directing those people to a lawyer or the state insurance boards. (see thread on signing contracts with gyms). I’ll go straight to the core issue here:
It is your responsibility to be fiscally responsible. We can replay the whole “take some f!@king responsibility” thread and replace the word “safety” with “finances” and you can get the drift of this. You, not the g’ment, not some company, not some community, are responsible for your finances. This includes planning for bad things. Before beginning climbing, why didn’t you make sure you had a $10,000 injury safety net in place? You made sure you placed protection on the climb, buying insurance is the same thing; it is a form of protection. Does every piece of pro hold in every situation? No, that is why you shouldn’t bank on only one form of fiscal safety net.
Look, it is very, very difficult to make the right fiscal choices. Should I buy this chick a beer and hope she gets drunker and I get lucky or should I save this money so I can send it to an insurance company and never see it again? It is a tough choice, but when you wake up with an incurable disease, you’ll know which one was the right choice.
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onceahardman
Nov 12, 2008, 1:20 PM
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Hi Aerili...
My sincere and deepest sympathies to your aunt. Super rare autoimmune degenerative neurological disorders are very cruel. I wish her the best.
Insurance companies set up networks of physicians and other health care professionals as a way of controlling costs. They offer to refer all of their customers "within network", and in exchange, the practitioner agrees to perform services at a reduced rate. You know this when you sign up for the plan.
You have the option of going out of network, for a greatly increased premium, on a different policy.
Is a doctor really "dumb" if he or she has never seen a medical condition which has only been diagnosed three times previously? Chances are, there was not anything in the peer-reviewed literature about such a rare condition (guessing here).
I know it hurts more when it's personal, and I empathize with your family.
Now, cutting the blood-thinners, with a resulting stroke, they might have something actionable there, but I really don't know.
Best of luck to your family.
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yeahyeahyeah
Nov 12, 2008, 4:38 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: It is your responsibility to be fiscally responsible. We can replay the whole “take some f!@king responsibility” thread and replace the word “safety” with “finances” and you can get the drift of this. You, not the g’ment, not some company, not some community, are responsible for your finances. This includes planning for bad things. Before beginning climbing, why didn’t you make sure you had a $10,000 injury safety net in place? You made sure you placed protection on the climb, buying insurance is the same thing; it is a form of protection. Does every piece of pro hold in every situation? No, that is why you shouldn’t bank on only one form of fiscal safety net. Look, it is very, very difficult to make the right fiscal choices. Should I buy this chick a beer and hope she gets drunker and I get lucky or should I save this money so I can send it to an insurance company and never see it again? It is a tough choice, but when you wake up with an incurable disease, you’ll know which one was the right choice.
Even if I saved everything I had after paying my minimum expenses, it would take years to save that kind of money. Some people don't have the luxury of having money to save, like my parents who can't even pay for necessities even though they are both working. They don't live in a nice neighborhood or have new cars or waste money on shit either. My mom works for the gov't and makes minimum wage. She had to go to mexico to get an operation done because the same operation with her gov't funded insurance would have cost her 3 times as much as the trip to mexico and the operation combined.
You know, I could afford super cheap insurance but for the kind of care I would get it wouldn't be worth it. I know from my own experiences. Everyone agrees that insurance-for-profit is a huge problem but they keep throwing their money at it for some false sense of security and in doing so they are perpetuating the problem(s) with our healthcare system. By not paying for insurance I'm choosing to take more responsibility for my own health than you are. You pay for insurance to cover your ass, you want them to take the responsibility when you bust it.
Go back to your "secure" little suburb and continue to live your "secure" but ignorant life. If you wake up with an incurable disease I hope you realize that your insurance would find a way to bail on you and you'd be SOL. So do yourself a favor and take some fucking responsibility and don't rely on insurance to go through with their end of the deal.
Oh btw, congratulations. You are the new dick of this thread.
(This post was edited by yeahyeahyeah on Nov 12, 2008, 4:40 PM)
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kmsmoguls
Nov 12, 2008, 5:34 PM
Post #22 of 209
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Registered: Apr 9, 2005
Posts: 140
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It sounds like you shoulder instability with the joint capsule stretched out. If it was a rotator cuff tear you probably wouldn't have full ROM and be able to climb. Throwing activity is one of the hardest things for your shoulder to do because it is a high velocity movement through all the ranges that your shoulder can perform.
If I were you I would contact a PT clinic who has worked with or specialized in shoulder rehab for throwing athletes. If you pay cash an evaluation might be in the range of 150 $. Be sure to explain your situation and your goals and most PTs are sympathetic to people in your situation and will do their best to help. They should be able to take a look and get a better idea what is wrong. If it is just shoulder instability due to chronic subluxation they should be able to give you a good home exercise program so you can do most if not all of the PT at home. The goal would be to get your rotator cuff as strong as possible because it provides the dynamic stability, which you are lacking.
Hope this helps
Erik
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marebear
Nov 12, 2008, 5:38 PM
Post #23 of 209
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Registered: May 15, 2008
Posts: 166
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: onceahardman wrote: Hey, yeahyeahyeah... Sorry if I came off as a dick... Don't worry, I'll make you seem nice! Skipping over all those people who have a personal story of an insurance company doing something wrong with them (I’m not in their customer service department) and directing those people to a lawyer or the state insurance boards. (see thread on signing contracts with gyms). I’ll go straight to the core issue here: It is your responsibility to be fiscally responsible. We can replay the whole “take some f!@king responsibility” thread and replace the word “safety” with “finances” and you can get the drift of this. You, not the g’ment, not some company, not some community, are responsible for your finances. This includes planning for bad things. Before beginning climbing, why didn’t you make sure you had a $10,000 injury safety net in place? You made sure you placed protection on the climb, buying insurance is the same thing; it is a form of protection. Does every piece of pro hold in every situation? No, that is why you shouldn’t bank on only one form of fiscal safety net. Look, it is very, very difficult to make the right fiscal choices. Should I buy this chick a beer and hope she gets drunker and I get lucky or should I save this money so I can send it to an insurance company and never see it again? It is a tough choice, but when you wake up with an incurable disease, you’ll know which one was the right choice.
Well put. It's easy to complain about the cost of insurance and medical treatments, but what you don't realize is, you are the cause of high medical costs.
The reason why insurance premiums have gotten so high is a direct result of people running around without insurance simply because they "don't need it". Anyone can be subject to catastrophic illness or injury at any time, and those of us who choose to engage in risky activities like rock climbing are even more likely. When an uninsured individual experiences a catastrophic injury, say, getting hit by a bus, and needs emergency care at a hospital, the medical community absorbs the costs accrued by the hospital to treat the person.
Where do you think these absorbed costs go? They go directly to all of us who are insured. Our copays go up, medicine gets more expensive, hospitals charge more for surgeries, x rays, and MRIs, etc. People who choose to forgo medical insurance and participate in risky activities are the problem with the insurance industry.
Suck it up and go buy a high-deductible insurance plan. The rest of us will thank you for it.
(This post was edited by marebear on Nov 12, 2008, 5:41 PM)
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onceahardman
Nov 12, 2008, 5:51 PM
Post #24 of 209
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Registered: Aug 3, 2007
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Hey, YYY,
I understand your family is financially poor. Really I do. I grew up quite poor too. I worked hard, all the way to middle class, where I will die. Since you keep bringing up your parents, I assume you are quite young, and still live with them. Your mom, being a government employee, certainly has some kind of health insurance.
In reply to: She had to go to mexico to get an operation done because the same operation with her gov't funded insurance would have cost her 3 times as much as the trip to mexico and the operation combined.
I'm really curious about this. What kind of surgery is three times higher in the USA than Mexico, including travel expenses, and including USA health insurance? Elective surgery? I don't want to say I disbelieve you, but I'd like to know more about this.
BTW, apparently you can afford a computer, internet access, and transportation, and are able to climb at a gym.
People who spend more money are able to buy better houses, drive better cars, eat better food, wear better clothes, hire better lawyers, (buy more cams), etc. Why should it be surprising they can also get better health care too? Whether it's through higher-quality private insurance, or straight private pay, those who pay more, get better service. That's how it goes.
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aerili
Nov 12, 2008, 10:35 PM
Post #25 of 209
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Registered: Jan 13, 2006
Posts: 1166
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onceahardman wrote: Insurance companies set up networks of physicians and other health care professionals as a way of controlling costs. They offer to refer all of their customers "within network", and in exchange, the practitioner agrees to perform services at a reduced rate. You know this when you sign up for the plan.
I know this.
However, from what my uncle said, the way their plan worked is that if there is NO ONE in your network who has the expertise to diagnose or treat your condition AND you have been explicitly referred to someone out of network because of this, then the insurance company would cover such care as if it was in-network because you have no alternative in-network options. I am sure there was a petition process and they probably went through it and all but Healthnet denied even though they went by all Healthnet's rules for this process to work.
In reply to: Is a doctor really "dumb" if he or she has never seen a medical condition which has only been diagnosed three times previously? Chances are, there was not anything in the peer-reviewed literature about such a rare condition (guessing here).
No, but perhaps dumb isn't a good word, perhaps arrogant or overly-invested in their own personal dx theories is better (which I construe as dumb). The fact is that all their theories just weren't holding up to scrutiny over time, but instead of finally throwing in the towel and saying, "You know what? I am at the end of my personal ability to help you and I will escalate my referral process to Mayo Clinic RIGHT NOW so that you don't keep progressing in your symptoms which is what is happening and which I (and everyone else in this city) have not been able to stop or even figure out definitively" they didn't, they just kept dicking around, unable to let it move above them to a doctor who was just of a higher caliber/more specialized/whatever. My uncle believes part of the reason is that some of these doctors just simply did not take her symptoms seriously enough. And I believe that is true.
My aunt is an RN, actually, and my uncle a former firefighter and EMT, and my uncle regrets my aunt did not push them harder to just step aside when they should have and do everything possible to help her get an insurance-approved referral to Mayo Clinic A YEAR before she ended up there. If doctors start viewing you as "a problem" which just won't go away, though, it becomes harder and harder as a patient to get them to treat you differently.
Hopefully this clarifies my thoughts on this issue.
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