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penguinator


Nov 13, 2008, 6:45 AM
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Complete Lightweight Rack
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Hey everyone,

Its been a while since I have been climbing at all... and I need to make a comeback rack. I thought that seeing as I am mostly starting again from scratch, I wouldnt mind playing around with the idea of making a rack geared specifically towards functionality while keeping weight at an alltime minimum.

I suppose I am asking the question: What would be the most lightweight gear (while still retaining functionality) in the following categories:

Biners (locking and non-locking)
Cams
Nuts
Harness
Rope
Belay device
Slings (including dogbones for draws)
and anything else I probably missed.

I have a rough idea about things, and I have lost sleep over some issues. Eg: Camalots vs something lighter, but with less range.

Discuss I guess, or just post your fantasy lightweight rack (if you were starting from scratch and had all the money in the world)


suilenroc


Nov 13, 2008, 6:53 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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A soloist's rack...

Shoes, chalk bag, and huge balls...Smile


Edit: Huge balls might be heavier than c4s....


(This post was edited by suilenroc on Nov 13, 2008, 7:05 AM)


penguinator


Nov 13, 2008, 7:34 AM
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Re: [suilenroc] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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Well for example, I can see at the moment that the Metolius Ultralights are definately one of the more lightweight cams, yet still very robust and safe.

Switching all biners over to wiregates is a good step from the looks of things, at the moment I have quite a few neutrinos and Oz biners lying around.

The few locking biners I have left are Vaporlocks, which are fairly light, so I will definately stick with those.


moose_droppings


Nov 13, 2008, 7:55 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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penguinator wrote:
Hey everyone,

Its been a while since I have been climbing at all... and I need to make a comeback rack. I thought that seeing as I am mostly starting again from scratch, I wouldnt mind playing around with the idea of making a rack geared specifically towards functionality while keeping weight at an alltime minimum.

I suppose I am asking the question: What would be the most lightweight gear (while still retaining functionality) in the following categories:

Biners (locking and non-locking)
Cams
Nuts
Harness
Rope
Belay device
Slings (including dogbones for draws)
and anything else I probably missed.

I have a rough idea about things, and I have lost sleep over some issues. Eg: Camalots vs something lighter, but with less range.

Discuss I guess, or just post your fantasy lightweight rack (if you were starting from scratch and had all the money in the world)

A lot of variables, but I'll take a shot.

Biners: I prefer the Trango superflys, others claim to be lighter and some are, but for the size and feel Trango fits my bill. Get a couple of Superfy lockers too.

Cams: Metolius Ultralights 3CUs and 4CUs if you want a full set. Personally if I was going for just a light rack and skimming on functionality, I'd just get the OP link cams and rely heavily on passive pro.

Nuts: Metolius Ultralights. Again, if I was going with fewer cams, I'd go with a set and double up on the midsize nuts.

Harness: BD Bod or maybe the Singing Rock Fly. Your going for light right? I'd opt out of these myself and bear with a little more weight and more comfort.

Rope: Gazillion choices here, something around a 9.8mm. Depending on where your climbing, a 50m rope might be all you need.

Belay device. Plain ole ATC. Grams do add up, but not that much when all you need is one as compared to biners. You could also just use a biner with a munter.

Slings: Some 6 or 8mm dyneema. I'd forget the quickdraws and just go with trad draws. Depends but maybe 2-4', 8-2', and 2-1'.


fatoomchk


Nov 13, 2008, 9:02 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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Harness: Arc'teryx R320. I know the R280 is lighter, but the 320 is a better all-round harness for trad imo. (vegastradguy might disagree though... check out his detailed review of the R280).

I've been climbing on the R320 for about 6 months, and it is by far the best harness I have owned compared to older BD, Wild Country, Troll and others.

and it's hella light.


Partner climbinginchico


Nov 13, 2008, 3:57 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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For me, based on my preferences, I would build this rack if money were no object:

Nuts: Frost Sentinel stoppers, regular length. I'd rather lead on gear I like better than save a few grams. I've learned not to like curved stoppers so Tom's are my pick. Add a set of HB aluminum offsets. (are DMM's lighter? If so, and they are the same spec, I'd go with those.) I never leave the ground without offsets.
Cams: BD C4 and C3. Once again, simple preference here. I don't like U-stem cams so DMM and Metolius are out. I also have pre-recall aliens so those go too. Maybe all four link cams for those "oh crap" skeched out placements.
Biners: WC helium. Light enough and I prefer keylock. BD positron lockers cuz of keylock.
Slings: Mammut 8mm
Device: Reverso3 lighter than ATCXP
Rope: Mammut Serenity 8.9mm
Harness: Whichever of the Arcteryx new ones fit the bill best.


billcoe_


Nov 13, 2008, 4:29 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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penguinator wrote:
Hey everyone,

Its been a while since I have been climbing at all... and I need to make a comeback rack. I thought that seeing as I am mostly starting again from scratch, I wouldnt mind playing around with the idea of making a rack geared specifically towards functionality while keeping weight at an alltime minimum.

I suppose I am asking the question: What would be the most lightweight gear (while still retaining functionality) in the following categories:

Biners (locking and non-locking)
Cams
Nuts
Harness
Rope
Belay device
Slings (including dogbones for draws)
and anything else I probably missed.

I have a rough idea about things, and I have lost sleep over some issues. Eg: Camalots vs something lighter, but with less range.

Discuss I guess, or just post your fantasy lightweight rack (if you were starting from scratch and had all the money in the world)

locking biners = Trango superlights.
Biners = theres lots of competition here, but Mammut Moses, Nanos, and BD has something that are in the 28 gram category. I still like the Wild Country though at 35 grams, as they have a shroud on the nose.
Cams = std Metolius 4 cam units or DMM.
Nuts= DMM (not the offsets which are heavy)
Harness - Axterix
Rope - 3 or 4 companies make 9.1 or smaller. Beal Joker, Sterling and Mammut are all good choices.
Belay device: get 2 of the DMM mini Bugs (one for your partner) that fits the rope at 26 grams. and the DMM HMS biner thats small at 56 grams.
Slings = Mammut 8mm

Thats my thoughts, sometimes trading light longevity is what you are doing though. Slings and ropes that thin REALLY MUST be retired earlier.


climbingaggie03


Nov 13, 2008, 4:50 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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For a lightweight belay device, look into the kong gi-gi, I think bentgate mountaineering sells them, it does everything that a bd atc guide does for less weight.

Also as far as cams go, I love metolious cams and the individual pieces are light, but remember since they have less range than bd camalots, you end up carrying more cams for the same range. This can be good because it gives you more pieces to place, or it can be bad because i think that if you have red, yellow, and blue camalots, you'll have to carry green, blue, purple, and maroon, metolious cams, which probably weighs more than the 3 camalots.

as far as biners, I think Oz biners are the lightest out there but I like the trango super fly wire gates and lockers better and there's not a huge weight difference.

If you REALLY want a light rope, the beal joker 8.9mm is pretty light, but I'd think that you want to go with something a little thicker since this is going to be your primary rope.


penguinator


Nov 14, 2008, 2:13 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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I was just writing a few things down last night and came up with this lazy list:

Harness: Petzl Hirundos (Any critics of this harness?)

Rope: Petzl Fuse 9.4mm (Nice and light, but still robust enough to serve as an onsight/redpoint trad rope)

Belay Device: Petzl Reverso3

Draws: Black Diamond Oz on Dyneema

Locking Biners: BD Vaporlocks, and a MiniPearabiner for belay device.

Pro: 1.5 sets of Metolius Ultralights & about 6 various sizes of tricams. Also, 4 larger sized 4cu's (DMM or Metolius), and 4 smaller sized 3cu's (DMM or Metolius).


That should get me pretty much sorted to get back into it all!


hafilax


Nov 14, 2008, 3:02 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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For specific suggestions it helps to know what kind of climbing (rock type, single or multi pitch, hand/ finger/ offwidth etc)

With that in mind tricams are light, relatively inexpensive and can be used for doubling up on small cam/large nut sizes.

If I wanted light I'd go DMM/4CU over C4's.

This is the only time that I would mention hexes. I hate the damn things but they have their place in alpine and other lightweight racks.


penguinator


Nov 14, 2008, 3:12 AM
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Re: [hafilax] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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Predominantly Sandstone (Blue Mountains, Australia).

No real specific climb type. Mostly bash around on the harder singlepitch cracks, or easier multipitch.


bjohnson2


Nov 14, 2008, 3:39 AM
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I'm a little suprised that no one has mentioned DMM biners yet, they're super light due to hot forged I-beam construction. I started out my rack with various lighter weight BD biners, but have recently started buying DMM due to reduced weight and increaced functionality (in my opinion). The DMM phantom biner is only 26 grams, compared to the 28 gram BD oz, hut the BD oz is only 20KN strength, whereas the DMM phantom is 23 KN, downside to the DMM phantom has a smaller gate opening. This and the DMM shield (slightly bigger, funky looking to reduce chance of crossloading, 35g 24KN, and a keylock style nose) are my current lightweight favorites.

I've also heard great things about the arcteryx harnesses, but they're pretty pricey, but I haven't used one personally.

I personally use BD Camalots because I like them more than others I've tried, and feel that the extra weight is worth carrying due to ease of use and an increaced expansion range. If you're just looking to save weight, and don't mine the U-stem design the Metolius ultralights are the lightest I've found. A set of BD Camalots (C-4's only) with the same (or at least close to the same) expansion range of the Metolius ultralights weighs 863g. the Metolius cams weigh 724g, and you're only carrying one more cam. they really are quite a bit lighter, but on the flip side if you perfer the BD Camalots then the extra 140g or so really isn't all that bad.


chezdillon


Nov 14, 2008, 4:41 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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Rope: Mammut Infinity 9.5

Harness: Arcteryx R320

Draws: Wild Country Helium + Mammut Dyneema (7 x 20cm + 7 x 60cm)

Active Pro: Metolius Ultralight TCU 00 - 2, BD C4 .3 - 3

Passive Pro: Wild Country Superlight Rocks 2-10, Wild Country
Rockcentric Hexes 6-9, Camp Tri-Cams 0.5 - 1.5

Racking Biners: Camp Nano Wires (12)

Pack: GoLite Jam Pack

Belay Device: Trango Superfly Screwlock + Petzl Reverso 3

Total Weight: 17.5 lbs

Total Price: $1,860


brutusofwyde


Nov 14, 2008, 5:57 AM
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Re: [chezdillon] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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My ultralight setup starts with 50m Twin/Double 8.1 mm Beal Ice Line.

Belay device: DMM Bugette 26 grams

Helmet: Petzl Meteor III 8.2 oz

Harness Arc'Teryx M280 9.8 oz. with second set of gear loops and a haul loop sewn on. Plastic Stiffeners removed & loops treated with Seam Grip to stiffen & prevent abrasion.

DMM Quadcams from #2 to #4

Below #2 size cams I prefer a wider expansion range than provided by the Quadcams. For years I have carried 0.75 and 0.5 camalots. Just replaced those C4s with 0.75 and 0.5 OP Link cams, which are lighter.

Yellow & Red Aliens

#1 through #8 Wild Country Rocks

Sandstone: I include the pink, red and brown tricams
& 5,6,&7 tricams for wider cracks. The smaller, milled tricams are the only real compromise in this gear set, just because they work so well in sandstone.

Camp nano 23 carabiners are 23 grams each.

Trango Superfly locking carabiners: 41 grams each.

To double up on gear, first choice for easier routes is to add #3 - #7 Rockcentrics. If climbing more near my limit, I'll carry double set cams instead, but there is a weight price to be paid.

Brutus


superory


Nov 14, 2008, 6:45 AM
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i was actually thinking about this the other day. what would be the lightest whilst still being functional and i think i got it nailed down to a double or triple set of hexes.

any thoughts???


pbnjonny


Nov 15, 2008, 5:30 AM
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No ones mentioned the Trango B-52 belay device, its only 2 grams heavier than my atc and has a lot more function.

The Mammut Moses have the best size to weight ratio for me, the BD Oz is too small, the Trango Superfly wires good too, a bit heavier and a slightly larger gate opening


scotty1974


Nov 17, 2008, 8:44 PM
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- BD C4's. Best cams out there...and I have multiple brands. Light, strong, place and remove well. Minimal walking.
- I like the BD dental floss runners. Great for anchors or trad slings. Mammut's are great too. I think the Petzels fuzz out too much. Regular quick draws have quite a few really light versions, but be ready to pay out the nose. Once I switched over to trad draws, my other quickdraws barley come out.
- A climbing buddy has the helium biners for his trad draws and they are incredibly light.
- Wild Country Alpine rocks. Depending on the type of climbing your doing, these things are super light.
- BD Neutrinos on all my cams
- Rope I use a Petzel Fuse 9.4
- Belay Device - Petzel reverso 3 is really light and works great, but I switch to the BD ATC guide. Yes it's heavier, but it fits all size ropes better. But the reverso is very very light.
- Harness - I don't use them, but the Arc'teryx are the lightest
- Leave the cordellete home and use double and single length runners


reno


Nov 18, 2008, 2:51 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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penguinator wrote:
I suppose I am asking the question: What would be the most lightweight gear (while still retaining functionality) in the following categories:

OK, my replies are in bold below, and I'm approaching this from the "ultra-light, alpine rock, minimalist rack" viewpoint:

Biners (locking and non-locking) Trango Superfly
Cams You don't need 'em. Get the first four CAMP tri-cams, and be done with it.
Nuts BD Stoppers, one set. I carry three hexes, too, to supplement.
Harness Word is the new Arc-Teryx is nasty light. Don't own one, can't comment. I use a BD Blizzard, and it's "light enough."
Rope Something in the 9.4 range.
Belay device Locking pear biner, and Munter Hitch.
Slings (including dogbones for draws)Any of the Dyneema slings... I have Mammut


scotty1974


Nov 18, 2008, 5:36 PM
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Re: [reno] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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Nice alpine setup! I wouldn't personally go that light, but I'd rather carry your rack than mine! Sly


curt


Nov 18, 2008, 10:55 PM
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How about some nice lightweight plastic stoppers?



Curt


hafilax


Nov 19, 2008, 12:12 AM
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The Arcteryx harnesses aren't really any lighter than the Petzls. They're just slightly more compact.


reno


Nov 19, 2008, 12:41 AM
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curt wrote:
How about some nice lightweight plastic stoppers?

I actually found a similar thing climbing in Boulder Canyon a couple years ago. More of a rubber material than a hard plastic. It's part of my "Sketch gear that I can't believe people actually climbed above!" collection (next to the Edelrid Bivo 2 cam and every CCH Alien made in 2003.)


Carolyn11


Dec 31, 2008, 9:58 PM
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Re: [brutusofwyde] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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I am thinking of picking up the m280 on clearance. How did you design the extra gear loops. I'm not the most crafty person. also any photos?


caughtinside


Jan 2, 2009, 2:09 AM
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penguinator wrote:

Harness: Petzl Hirundos (Any critics of this harness?)

be aware that harness has only two gear loops. Not good for trad, IMO. It is a lightweight sport harness.


caughtinside


Jan 2, 2009, 2:12 AM
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Re: [Carolyn11] Complete Lightweight Rack [In reply to]
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Carolyn11 wrote:
I am thinking of picking up the m280 on clearance. How did you design the extra gear loops. I'm not the most crafty person. also any photos?

If you know a seamster or a seamstress who has a bartacker you can sew one on. FISH does this sort of stuff, but turnaround time might be a while. better just to buy the 4 loop version off the shelf.

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