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Johnny_Fang
Nov 18, 2008, 4:14 PM
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Johnny_Fang wrote: make your own alcohol stove. it's free (practically). I've used mine for nearly 10 years now, no problems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beverage-can_stove
oh yeah, we were talking about fuel.
alcohol stoves feature a fuel that is available at any hardware store or paint store and most grocery stores.
i've used mine in below freezing temperatures many times. no problems at all.
alcohol stoves are one of the least toxic burning stoves. you can cook inside the tent much safer if you have to (never recommended).
alcohol stoves are the most environmentally friendly stoves, using a renewable resource.
the fuel is about twice as heavy as commercial stoves per heat output, but you can use a regular plastic water bottle to hold it. no heavy cannisters, no heavy fuel bottles. the stove itself weighs about 1 1/2 ounces.
did i mention it was free and you can make it yourself in about 30 minutes with minimal tools?
there are no moving parts to break. if it did break (if you stepped on it) you can make another one... for free.
i've used it for long hikes, short hikes, and car camping. you can't control the heat output per se, but i've still sauteed vegetables and made pancakes on it (you just have to pick the pan up every so often and monitor the heat that way.) it takes longer to cook but it is absolutely quiet--none of that "whisperlight" camp noise. you can actually hear the water come to a boil.
plus if you are having a hard time starting your campfire, or if you're just lazy, the alcohol fuel is a great way to kick-start the wood.
if you really NEED to buy something from the corporations who have convinced us that only they know what's best and we're gonna die without them, trangia makes the same stoves for about 30 bucks.
m.
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clee03m
Nov 18, 2008, 4:28 PM
Post #27 of 77
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Registered: Oct 29, 2004
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My butane stove doesn't work that well in the winter. I have to keep one fuel bottle in my jacket to keep it warm and switch it out when the flame dies down. That's when one of the climbers told me that butane doesn't work well in the winter.
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rohr
Nov 18, 2008, 4:33 PM
Post #28 of 77
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I've used a whisperlite international for about 15 years. Great stove. It's not the lightest, but it runs on just about anything. I used white gas almost all the time, but the gasoline option came in quite handy once. On longer backpacking trips in well-traveled areas (e.g., AT, JMT), it's not hard to come by white gas by the ounce, so topping off your bottle is cheap and easy.
Having said all that, I recently bought a jetboil and I love it. It's perfect for a few days of solo backpacking. It's light, compact, lights right away and heats fast. Cooking anything fancy in the skinny little cup would require a good deal of creativity, but it's great for pasta and such. One factor in my switch is that these days I often fly to backpacking destinations. TSA hates MSR-type fuel bottles. If there's even the slightest smell of fuel in the bottle, they're not letting it on the plane, whether it's checked or in a carry-on bag. So, unless you're going somewhere way off the beaten path, I think it's easier to just buy a can of jetboil fuel once you get where you're going.
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altelis
Nov 18, 2008, 5:10 PM
Post #29 of 77
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fatoomchk wrote: Obviously you will need to make a decision based on how you intend to use the stove (eg alpine, hiking, big walls, ski touring, car camping etc), and the location for use that might affect fuel choices.
and here's the rub
where/what are you doing?
you'll be pissed if you didn't tell us you were mainly cooking either on a portaledge or melting snow in your tent on alpine climbs and we convinced you to get a white fuel stove
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climbingaggie03
Nov 18, 2008, 5:25 PM
Post #30 of 77
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What you are going to be doing and when you are going to be doing it makes a difference on what fuel type you want to use.
My primary stove is a white gas stove, the fuel is cheap, the stove is efficient, and if you learn a few tricks, like depressurizing the fuel bottle, most white gas stoves will simmer quite well. I've spent probably 5 or 6 months on the road with nothing other than a whisperlite and cooked anything I wanted on it, not just easy boil water types of meals.
The cons of white gas is priming takes a minute and can be a bit of a pain, and it's not the lightest thing out there.
Canisters are super convenient and easy to adjust the flame, they suck when it's cold though. Also it does get expensive to have to keep buying the canisters.
In the end, for weekend trips and/or 3 season use, I'd go canister
for longer trips and/or winter use, White gas
If you are going to be gong international, then you need a canister stove, or a mulitfuel stove
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petsfed
Nov 18, 2008, 6:01 PM
Post #31 of 77
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altelis wrote: fatoomchk wrote: Obviously you will need to make a decision based on how you intend to use the stove (eg alpine, hiking, big walls, ski touring, car camping etc), and the location for use that might affect fuel choices. and here's the rub where/what are you doing? you'll be pissed if you didn't tell us you were mainly cooking either on a portaledge or melting snow in your tent on alpine climbs and we convinced you to get a white fuel stove
And didn't learn how to construct a hanging stove setup for it.
They still use white gas at high altitude because the canisters simply don't like the cold.
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anthonymason
Nov 18, 2008, 6:24 PM
Post #32 of 77
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It of course depends what/where/how long etc.
But Krossbakken wants backpacking stove, here in the states white gas/canisters are easy and cheap to find, however try to to find that stuff anywhere in a developing coutry and you will hard pressed to find such nice fuel.
I haved used diesel to kerosene to something that resembles paint thinner-only thicker.
Diesel/kerosene are almost everywhere on this planet, and it is very cheap.
I bet even in the amazon forrest you can find a logger to sell you a gallon of diesel/kerosene for a couple of bucks.
Just remember when using these dirty fuels to cover you pot or you're food will taste like hell.
For cold weather I like white gas/jet fuel, above 6000'
For warm weather- propane/butane, sea level to 6000'.
Easier to use= cartridges-propane/butane
Cheaper= white gas/diesel/kerosene/jet fuel.
Good luck
Anthony
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fatoomchk
Nov 18, 2008, 7:53 PM
Post #33 of 77
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clc wrote: below freezing the canisters suck ass.
I wouldn't say they "suck ass", but you do need to manage the fuel to help it stay volatile. ie, don't place it directly in the snow - use some kind of platform underneath - eg plate, ensolite mat etc. you can also put the canister inside your jacket for a few minutes to warm up - but I've only had to do that when it about -25°C.
IMO it's no worse than managing other fuels in the cold. (anyone still use a Trangia?)
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qtm
Nov 18, 2008, 9:35 PM
Post #34 of 77
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One other thing about flying and canister fuels; not only do you have to ensure you can buy them, but you have to make sure the store will be open when you arrive. If your flight is delayed, or it's a holiday, the store might be closed then you're SOL. That's the good thing about multi-fuel stoves, gas stations tend to be more numerous and have better hours.
That said, I like canister stoves, especially the Jetboil, for the convenience and compactness.
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dingus
Nov 18, 2008, 9:43 PM
Post #35 of 77
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Long time MSR user here.
I HATE THOSE FUCKING STOVES. I HATE WHITE GAS AND THE MOTHERLESS SON THAT INVENTED THEM.
They would burn in hell but the Hell MSR is clogged and won't fucking flame!!!1111111111
If you gave me one I wouldn't use it.
Canister stoves with a preheater coil of some sort (for winter, when and IF needed) - yowza.
I use propane. My stove sets up in 3 seconds and is churning at full flame a hald second after that.
Whilst my mates are pumping, priming and pimping and eventually slamming their recalcitrant white gas stoves into any convenient hard surface (burn mother FUCKER, BURN!!!111)
You can see I'vfe had some back country MSR trauma... you can see that can't you??
I would have KILLED Mr. MSR had he the misfortune to wander into a certain fireless (and very very COLD) camp site.
DMT
ps. Did I mention I HATE MSR STOVES!
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grampacharlie
Nov 18, 2008, 10:09 PM
Post #36 of 77
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Registered: May 25, 2006
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Butane, isobutane, and other canister gasses can freeze up in cold weather leaving your only reliable source of cooking power, not so reliable.
White gas doesn't freeze. It can get contaminated, the stove can get clogged, but this is fairly easy to deal with if you know how to take apart your stove.
For price, you can't beat white gas.
If you get an international msr, you can use whatever is the cheapest fuel available, including unleaded.
I can't tell you what is truely BETTER, just what I prefer. I like a stove that will use white gas.
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krosbakken
Nov 18, 2008, 10:45 PM
Post #37 of 77
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Ill be using this stove for car camping and back packing in the summer. Ill also use it in the winter once in a while.
So far from what I have heard I like the sound of white gas being cheaper and being able to use many different kinds of fuels.
For the butane I don't like the sound of having to find them to buy and keep buying those cans. I think I saw some for $20, that seems like alot.
So Idk I like the sound of white gas.
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fatoomchk
Nov 18, 2008, 11:26 PM
Post #38 of 77
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Well... I suggest buying Dingus' old MSR stove.  Hell, he might even give it to you (or throw it at you).
And then, once you are sick of eating cold ramen slushies, you can buy a nice shiny new butane/isobutane stove. 
(but keep the MSR for that trip to patagonia...)
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hafilax
Nov 18, 2008, 11:40 PM
Post #39 of 77
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krosbakken wrote: Ill be using this stove for car camping and back packing in the summer. Ill also use it in the winter once in a while. So far from what I have heard I like the sound of white gas being cheaper and being able to use many different kinds of fuels. For the butane I don't like the sound of having to find them to buy and keep buying those cans. I think I saw some for $20, that seems like alot. So Idk I like the sound of white gas.
My $0.02: Go with white gas if you only want to boil or melt snow and will only use it in the US. Otherwise go with canisters.
It's nice to have both but if only going for 1 the ease of use of the canisters is worth it.
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krosbakken
Nov 18, 2008, 11:49 PM
Post #40 of 77
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hafilax wrote: krosbakken wrote: Ill be using this stove for car camping and back packing in the summer. Ill also use it in the winter once in a while. So far from what I have heard I like the sound of white gas being cheaper and being able to use many different kinds of fuels. For the butane I don't like the sound of having to find them to buy and keep buying those cans. I think I saw some for $20, that seems like alot. So Idk I like the sound of white gas. You still haven't decided??!!!! My $0.02: Go with white gas if you only want to boil or melt snow and will only use it in the US. Otherwise go with canisters. It's nice to have both but if only going for 1 the ease of use of the canisters is worth it.
Ya i know I still havent decided.
Ya the only thing I do is boil water, over a fire usaully but its tough sometimes and car camping theres no always that option.
I think white gas is going to be my choice.
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krosbakken
Nov 18, 2008, 11:50 PM
Post #41 of 77
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dingus wrote: Long time MSR user here. I HATE THOSE FUCKING STOVES. I HATE WHITE GAS AND THE MOTHERLESS SON THAT INVENTED THEM. They would burn in hell but the Hell MSR is clogged and won't fucking flame!!!1111111111 If you gave me one I wouldn't use it. Canister stoves with a preheater coil of some sort (for winter, when and IF needed) - yowza. I use propane. My stove sets up in 3 seconds and is churning at full flame a hald second after that. Whilst my mates are pumping, priming and pimping and eventually slamming their recalcitrant white gas stoves into any convenient hard surface (burn mother FUCKER, BURN!!!111) You can see I'vfe had some back country MSR trauma... you can see that can't you?? I would have KILLED Mr. MSR had he the misfortune to wander into a certain fireless (and very very COLD) camp site. DMT ps. Did I mention I HATE MSR STOVES!
HEY DINGUS YOU DONE RANTING.......
Ill take any msr stove off your hands, Ill pay shipping and everything. PM me.
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shimanilami
Nov 18, 2008, 11:59 PM
Post #42 of 77
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There are many 3rd world countries in which you'll have a hard time finding canisters or white gas and - with the new TSA restrictions - you'll have a hard time transporting them there as well. If you're going to be backpacking in one of these locations, you'll need a multi-fuel stove.
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anthonymason
Nov 19, 2008, 12:24 AM
Post #43 of 77
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Registered: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 116
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If you get dingus's MSR stove clean it and it will be fine, as for car camping go out and buy a coleman propane stove/grill.
The coleman stove I have for car camping rocks, it has one adjustable burner, and a decent grill all in the same stove plus I have the extra fuel line to hook it up to a 20lb propane pill,(cheaper to refill) the last time at camp 4, I was grilling chicken, bell peppers etc, cooking pasta, meanwhile the others were eatin' ramen/or some other boiled foods, using thier small stoves.
Not bad if you are on a wall or backpacking, but when car camping you can bring out the fun toys, including but not limited to the blender(for margaritas)(or foo-foo drinks)lounge chairs and the 16person tents,cots, the boombox playing Barry White/Pet shop boys/Metallica?, generator/s(honda eu2000i), party lights, what else? Car camping is more like RVing, bring the toys and have fun
Anthony
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ptlong
Nov 19, 2008, 12:47 AM
Post #44 of 77
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You can have my MSR for free. It's a piece of shit. Go ahead and clean it, rebuild it, clean it again, spend your whole life working on it. Ha ha ha. It's a lemon and for whatever reason it will never work well. I've seen others just like it.
My preference for fuel goes like this. The closer to home, the simpler the hydrocarbon.
Home: methane/ethane (aka natural gas).
Car camping: propane.
Backcountry (winter included): canisters (propane/butane).
Extreme cold: white gas.
Places where none of the above are available: kerosene.
The extra cost of propane and canisters versus white gas only matters if you're pinching every penny. I spend way more on gasoline getting to the mountains to even start to worry about the extra few bucks per weekend for canister fuel.
But if you're a dirtbag and can only afford one stove for everything, a white gas rig is the obvious choice.
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onceahardman
Nov 19, 2008, 12:53 AM
Post #45 of 77
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My old Svea 123.
Solid brass, >30 yrs old, small, always works, burns hot and loud.
If my life depended on it, this will always be the stove for me.
White gas/ coleman fuel, BTW.
Also, I've heard that super-premium unleaded 92+ octane, can be used for white gas, but I've never tried it. Anyone?
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petsfed
Nov 19, 2008, 1:00 AM
Post #46 of 77
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ptlong wrote: Home: methane/ethane (aka natural gas). Car camping: propane. Backcountry (winter included): canisters (propane/butane). Extreme cold: white gas. Places where none of the above are available: kerosene.
I'm really curious what your winters are like if you only break out the white gas at extreme cold. I learned the hard way that at eleven thousand feet in winter, it only gets warm enough for canister fuel after the sun rises.
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ptlong
Nov 19, 2008, 1:20 AM
Post #47 of 77
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onceahardman wrote: My old Svea 123. Solid brass, >30 yrs old, small, always works, burns hot and loud. If my life depended on it, this will always be the stove for me.
I saw one of those fail once. A welded seam apparently gave way and a geyser of flame shot out one side. We were worried it would explode and implored the owner to kick it into the snow to douse it. He leaned back and kicked it about 50 yards!
In reply to: Also, I've heard that super-premium unleaded 92+ octane, can be used for white gas, but I've never tried it. Anyone?
I've used regular unleaded in an MSR. Stinky. And it eventually clogged the jet, but it was all I could buy at the time.
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ptlong
Nov 19, 2008, 1:23 AM
Post #48 of 77
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petsfed wrote: I'm really curious what your winters are like if you only break out the white gas at extreme cold. I learned the hard way that at eleven thousand feet in winter, it only gets warm enough for canister fuel after the sun rises.
Not as cold as your winters. I've used a straight up canister stove (non-inverted and no mods except for a small pad and a windscreen) down to around zero fahrenheit.
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dingus
Nov 19, 2008, 1:38 AM
Post #49 of 77
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Registered: Dec 16, 2002
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krosbakken wrote: dingus wrote: Long time MSR user here. I HATE THOSE FUCKING STOVES. I HATE WHITE GAS AND THE MOTHERLESS SON THAT INVENTED THEM. They would burn in hell but the Hell MSR is clogged and won't fucking flame!!!1111111111 If you gave me one I wouldn't use it. Canister stoves with a preheater coil of some sort (for winter, when and IF needed) - yowza. I use propane. My stove sets up in 3 seconds and is churning at full flame a hald second after that. Whilst my mates are pumping, priming and pimping and eventually slamming their recalcitrant white gas stoves into any convenient hard surface (burn mother FUCKER, BURN!!!111) You can see I'vfe had some back country MSR trauma... you can see that can't you?? I would have KILLED Mr. MSR had he the misfortune to wander into a certain fireless (and very very COLD) camp site. DMT ps. Did I mention I HATE MSR STOVES! HEY DINGUS YOU DONE RANTING....... Ill take any msr stove off your hands, Ill pay shipping and everything. PM me.
I dispatched my last one with a sledge hammer. Burl still has his jet engine model even after beating it (hard) against a rock when it failed us (yet again) somewhere up in the Sierra.
I took great pleasure in pulverizing my old whisperlite (piece of shit).
Sorry.
DMT
ps. I had fare more problems with the pump than I ever had with the stove nozel. Those goddamned piece of shit plastic pumps aaaaarrrrgggghhhh! I've had them self-destruct IN MY HAND, as I vainly attempted to get some (any) fuel pressure.
Its funny, seeing folks LIVIN IN THE SHIT DITCH AND LUVIN EVERY MINUTE OF IT!
(This post was edited by dingus on Nov 19, 2008, 1:40 AM)
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