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ken21il


Dec 2, 2008, 1:23 AM
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What to wear ice climbing
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i have been reading and searching for info on getting into ice climbing... before i get to involved i wanted to know about price and amounts of gear.
I have determined i will need warm clothing and shells to keep me warm and protect this guy, but what..
Underware covered (Smart Wool products)
fleece inslating layer covered (Windstopper fleece & windstopper pant)
Sheill layer NOT COVERED...
I have mountain hardware windstopper what can i get as far as a shell jacket and pant with full side zips?

I also have a TNF denali fleece WHICH is supposed to be zip in compatable, but with what?

Can anyone help i dont want to spend money on something i dont need i would like to save money by combining items such as Zip in compatable jackets and what not


joeforte


Dec 2, 2008, 1:27 AM
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Re: [ken21il] What to wear ice climbing [In reply to]
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There's a few really good articles on clothing systems at

http://www.psychovertical.com


carabiner96


Dec 2, 2008, 2:01 AM
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Sounds like a start, but windstopper is stiff and heavy and bulky...ditch the pants and go with the smartwool under a good soft or hardshell pant. i only wear additional layers when it's absolutely frigid - and I'm a freezing beyotch!

Be smart with what you wear up top too. heavy fleece like the denali is heavy, thick, and not very flex friendly. Something like a polartec powerstretch fleece over the smartwool layer, and that under the hardshell/softshell weill be golden, and have a big puffy for belays or just hanging out at the bottom that goes over the whole package. On really cold days i'll wear a synthetic puffy (mt hardwear compressor) under the hardshell.

i don't like full zip shell pants, I climb 90% of the time in a pair of mammut softshell pants that i got on super clearance. i used to get gore-tex shells, but after this one wears out i'm going for cheap ems or rei brand shells because these jackets don't last more than a season and a half the way I wear on them.


anykineclimb


Dec 2, 2008, 2:35 AM
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Re: [carabiner96] What to wear ice climbing [In reply to]
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Find out what works for you. this will take you freezing your ass off and other times sweating to death.
I really like stuff that can open up to vent as I heat up REALLY quickly while moving but can then seal up to keep that warmth in.
be sure to get a good poofy jacket to keep you warm while belaying


gunkiemike


Dec 2, 2008, 2:45 AM
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I'm a fan of cheap pants and gaiters-that-will-be-shredded (crampon mishaps happen) rather than $200 snooty softshell pants. Usually my cheap pants combo is thin or medium fleece (depending on temps) under single layer non-GoreTex shell. Under $100 for the whole deal. The shell pants only have ankle zippers. I'm also happy to be in a waterproof shell pant when I have water running down my legs. Ice climbs can be very wet, especially in early season.


ken21il


Dec 2, 2008, 4:13 AM
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Re: [carabiner96] What to wear ice climbing [In reply to]
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Whats a good soft or hard shell? Im looking on Mountain gear's web site and im so confused... i surly cant afford a 400 - 600 dollar tech jacket i need a basic starter package pretty much. Maybe throw out some names of these such items-


carabiner96


Dec 2, 2008, 4:15 AM
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Look at ems, rei, mec, ll bean for their house brands. you'll find them to be a lot cheaper.


joeforte


Dec 2, 2008, 4:59 AM
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Patagonia.com has some good jackets for 1/2 price or better in their "Web Specials". This is a real good place to start shopping for your shell.

And read the stuff on that psychovertical website. It will help you to avoid buying the wrong stuff. He details exactly what features you should look for and also avoid when buying hardshells and softshells. He also goes into belay jackets and other gear advice as well. Andy really knows his stuff!


Partner brent_e


Dec 2, 2008, 6:06 AM
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carabiner96 wrote:
Look at ems, rei, mec, ll bean for their house brands. you'll find them to be a lot cheaper.

or http://www.beyondclothing.com for softshell tops/trousers

I think if you're ripping your pants when you climb they are either too baggy or you're sloppy. That being said I've ripped pants for both reasons but thankfully not so much lately (good fit, better kick).


Partner hosh


Dec 2, 2008, 6:33 AM
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Don't know what size you are, but this is a great jacket if you're XL or XXL size.

holidays are coming, tell your family!

hosh.


ithaca_ice


Dec 2, 2008, 6:52 AM
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screw all that expensive crap. get good boots, axes and crampons then go out and play in whatever clothes you have. you'll figure out what you NEED. i have all the gore stuff...it sits in my closet. powerstretch shirt softshell pants and used down jacket at the thrift store (found mine $5 go-lite at salvarmy) all i wear anymore.
if your not cold its a crappy christmas


cosmin


Dec 2, 2008, 7:27 AM
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Some good advice above. I'll give you my take on it as well with my setup (other brands have similar products that can replace the models i quote):

Body:
(1) synthetic underwear - top and bottom (Quechua/Decathlon)

(2) Accelero Pullover (Arc'teryx)

(3) Gamma Salopette (Arc'teryx)

(4) Gamma AR Jacket (Arc'teryx)

(5) Alpha SV Jacket (Arc'teryx)

[in backpack for belays a Dually Belay Parka (Arcteryx) that i can take over the Alpha]

Feet:
thin synthetic socks with a pair of thicker woolen socks. Crispi TOP 6000 boots.

Hands:
BD guide gloves or for warm conditions/shorter harder mixed routes a light, synthetic horse-riding glove.

Head:
BD Skull-Cap and BD Half Dome helmet.

I am sure that if you find this combination workable then you can substitute other brands for items with similar proprieties. I find this setup quite versatile, breathable, water-repellent, warm when needed and LIGHTWEIGHT.

C


tigerlilly


Dec 2, 2008, 2:06 PM
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Don't forget to bring several pairs of gloves. They get wet quickly. I like to have a pair of plain water-resistant shell mitts (no insulation) to pull over my gloves for belays or hanging out at the base.

I got 90% of my gear and clothing on sale. Here are a couple more places to shop for discounted clothing:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/
http://www.climbhighoutlet.com/

Kathy


(This post was edited by tigerlilly on Dec 2, 2008, 3:11 PM)


chossmonkey


Dec 2, 2008, 2:32 PM
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carabiner96 wrote:
Sounds like a start, but windstopper is stiff and heavy and bulky...
Not to mention completely unnecessary since you have some sort of shell covering all your base layers.



Generally I don't wear fleece unless it is really cold anyway. I like a few thin layers covered with a shell. For extra warmth when belaying get a belay (puffy) coat that goes over it all.


chossmonkey


Dec 2, 2008, 2:39 PM
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ithaca_ice wrote:
screw all that expensive crap. get good boots, axes and crampons then go out and play in whatever clothes you have. you'll figure out what you NEED. i have all the gore stuff...it sits in my closet. powerstretch shirt softshell pants and used down jacket at the thrift store (found mine $5 go-lite at salvarmy) all i wear anymore.
if your not cold its a crappy christmas
Good advice for many beginners. Most of the time you will be out TRing not far from the car for only a few hours.

Even for people who are out all day you don't need to spend a fortune. I got most of my base layers off a clearance rack at a department store. My bibs were off the clearance rack at an outdoors place. My shell is just a cheapo shell since they tend to get wrecked pretty quick.

There is no need to get expedition quality stuff if you aren't going on an expedition or over night.


reno


Dec 2, 2008, 2:42 PM
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chossmonkey wrote:
Generally I don't wear fleece unless it is really cold anyway. I like a few thin layers covered with a shell. For extra warmth when belaying get a belay (puffy) coat that goes over it all.

Agreed. I generally wear about four layers: Thin base layer, thin polypro turtleneck sweater, thin microfleece, and a wind/water resistant shell (Arc Teryx Epsilon that I scored on sale.) Throw in a down hoody for extra warmth at the belay, and I'm good to go.

Oh, and I'll echo Tigerlilly's comments about gloves.


yodadave


Dec 2, 2008, 2:50 PM
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Re: [reno] What to wear ice climbing [In reply to]
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sometimes army surplus does good,

I have germany army issue gortex pants with 3'4 zips
cheap, dry, tough

You can go cheap on the shell too

I'd save your money for good gloves and boots
keep those extremities looked after


joeforte


Dec 2, 2008, 2:51 PM
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Re: [cosmin] What to wear ice climbing [In reply to]
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cosmin wrote:
(2) Accelero Pullover (Arc'teryx)

(3) Gamma Salopette (Arc'teryx)

(4) Gamma AR Jacket (Arc'teryx)

(5) Alpha SV Jacket (Arc'teryx)

[in backpack for belays a Dually Belay Parka (Arcteryx) that i can take over the Alpha]

Just out of curiosity, I tallied up the prices of these 5 Arc'teryx garments:
$1760!!!!!!

Like others have said, just use what clothing you have, and spend your money on good boots, axes, and crampons. If you have any leftover, than maybe you can go fill your closet with Arc'teryx.


cosmin


Dec 2, 2008, 3:06 PM
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Re: [joeforte] What to wear ice climbing [In reply to]
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joeforte wrote:
cosmin wrote:
(2) Accelero Pullover (Arc'teryx)

(3) Gamma Salopette (Arc'teryx)

(4) Gamma AR Jacket (Arc'teryx)

(5) Alpha SV Jacket (Arc'teryx)

[in backpack for belays a Dually Belay Parka (Arcteryx) that i can take over the Alpha]

Just out of curiosity, I tallied up the prices of these 5 Arc'teryx garments:
$1760!!!!!!

Like others have said, just use what clothing you have, and spend your money on good boots, axes, and crampons. If you have any leftover, than maybe you can go fill your closet with Arc'teryx.

It is a truism by now to look at Arc'teryx and only see the price... There are sales, pro deals etc... However that is besides the point here.

As i said in my original post: look at these products and find something similar from other brands/cheaper if Arc'terix is inaccessible. Rather than a generic recommendation like "shell", "windstopper" etc I thought one might get more info from being directed to a specific product. There are many types of shells and windstoppers etc out there...

[as a side note: sometimes saving and buying a quality product - Arc'teryx, Patagonia, Marmot and others is worth it. I for one don't worry about the colour of my beanie, the brand of my jeans or that i don't own an iPod. I do however care if my gear allows me to increase my margin of safety and comfort.]


(This post was edited by cosmin on Dec 2, 2008, 3:18 PM)


granite_grrl


Dec 2, 2008, 3:30 PM
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Re: [reno] What to wear ice climbing [In reply to]
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reno wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
Generally I don't wear fleece unless it is really cold anyway. I like a few thin layers covered with a shell. For extra warmth when belaying get a belay (puffy) coat that goes over it all.

Agreed. I generally wear about four layers: Thin base layer, thin polypro turtleneck sweater, thin microfleece, and a wind/water resistant shell (Arc Teryx Epsilon that I scored on sale.) Throw in a down hoody for extra warmth at the belay, and I'm good to go.

Oh, and I'll echo Tigerlilly's comments about gloves.
Yeah, its amazing how much you heat up when you're actually climbing. Bashing ice takes a lot of energy. You want to try to avoid sweating like a pig if you can, 'cause getting wet like that will just make you colder in the long run. Good to wear layers so you can strip down. Use the zip vents on your clothing if you can. Bring with a warmer jacket and mitts to throw on when you're not climbing.


chouca


Dec 2, 2008, 5:51 PM
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Re: [ken21il] What to wear ice climbing [In reply to]
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Here is my system that works GREAT:

Base: Gore N2S tops and Bottoms. I've made a union suit out of one set to prevent gaposis.

Shell: Light soft shell pants (Arcteryx Gamma LT/AR move real well) or the Arcteryx Gamma Salopette for Canadian Rockies or extended back country. I use an old Patagonia Mixmaster, but I'd prefer something warmer, more wind resistant, and less prone to wet out. I climb in my N2S top and belay with the soft shell most of the time.

Insulation: An old Primaloft jacket in the lower 48. Down 750+ and Primaloft pants for real cold. Stays in the pack.

Extras: OR windproof balaclava, 2 pairs of Primaloft/ Gore-tex gloves, one pair of Schoeller dry tool gloves, Salomon mountaineering socks, and Salomon insulated blue suede boots. I'll bring along cheapo, lightweight waterproof zip pants and parka for maritime snowpacks or surprise gushers.

I hate layering. The N2S and soft shell move and work better than the undies/ pile/ Gore-tex because each layer provides a degree of insulation, water/ wind resistance, and abrasion resistance. The only thing that could be better is getting down to a single, easy moving layer.


ken21il


Dec 2, 2008, 7:41 PM
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When it comes to boots i have another problem, im a 12.5 EE and they dont make those. Should i go with a plastic or leather boot, and where can i shop at in illinois Rei St louis doesnt carry boots so i would have to drive to get a good fit.


scottb63


Dec 3, 2008, 6:40 PM
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Re: [hosh] What to wear ice climbing [In reply to]
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 Hey Hosh, thanks for posting that. I looked up the reviews on a bunch of sites and everyone raved about it. I realized i was allergic to down years ago when I bought the NF Nuptse jacket. It's hard to find a warm synthetic jacket like this without spending a fortune. Now I really need to stop buying myself early Christmas presents.


nilcarborundum


Dec 4, 2008, 8:10 PM
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Here's what I wear:

Baselayer long underwear and top. I have some smartwool, duofold, REI brand, etc. They all work about the same.

As far as outer layers, go cheap. I wear an old pair of ski pants. They were used for snow shoveling and sledding duty, and they work great. I've had to stitch about 20 holes since my footwork sucks, so I'm glad I didn't get anything expensive. As far as tops, I usually bring a light softshell for climbing and a puffy for belaying. If its really cold, I'll climb in an old Columbia ski jacket that I forgot I had. I bring two pairs of old ski gloves and some wool mittens, and change them as needed.

To follow up on what Chossy and Ithaca said, Go Cheap at the beginning. My first climb was in ski boots and strap on poons to see if I liked it. When I did, I spent the money on boots, tools, and poons. I plan on climbing this year in the ski pants and coat again. I'm certainly not impressing anyone with my outfit, but I'm not impressing anyone with my skill either, so it works out. Hell, the only reason I keep getting invited is because I remember to bring plenty of coffee, beer and whiskey.


Partner brent_e


Dec 4, 2008, 9:54 PM
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nilcarborundum wrote:
Here's what I wear:

Baselayer long underwear and top. I have some smartwool, duofold, REI brand, etc. They all work about the same.

As far as outer layers, go cheap. I wear an old pair of ski pants. They were used for snow shoveling and sledding duty, and they work great. I've had to stitch about 20 holes since my footwork sucks, so I'm glad I didn't get anything expensive. As far as tops, I usually bring a light softshell for climbing and a puffy for belaying. If its really cold, I'll climb in an old Columbia ski jacket that I forgot I had. I bring two pairs of old ski gloves and some wool mittens, and change them as needed.

To follow up on what Chossy and Ithaca said, Go Cheap at the beginning. My first climb was in ski boots and strap on poons to see if I liked it. When I did, I spent the money on boots, tools, and poons. I plan on climbing this year in the ski pants and coat again. I'm certainly not impressing anyone with my outfit, but I'm not impressing anyone with my skill either, so it works out. Hell, the only reason I keep getting invited is because I remember to bring plenty of coffee, beer and whiskey.

wanna come climbing??? Tongue

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