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All-day routes: pack weight is horrible
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Dec 23, 2008, 8:28 PM
Post #51 of 56 (1432 views)

Registered: Jan 22, 2003
Posts: 439

Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Durin wrote:
I'm likely going to get one of the BD packs, either the Bbee or the Bullet.

In reply to:
You can photocopy the topo ahead of time so you don't have to carry the whole guidebook.

I recently thought of that and plan to do so.

Again, regarding approach shoes...I'm going to need something light that can get me down north dome gulley, steck salathe, the cathedrals...etc. Would anyone who's posted here really advise doing that in tennies or running shoes? I'm looking into Chaco sandals.

Also, are there any good alternatives to both Nalgenes and bladders? I've had three bladders leak on me over the years. Two from Camelbak, one from Platypus.

Regarding the knife debate, they don't weigh very much, I'll keep my gerber with me. My petzl zipka is pretty damn tiny and light, so that's sticking too.

The marmot wind shirt does look awesome. I figure with that, then depending on the circumstances, a patagonia capilene and a light rain jacket should keep me comfortable for most long single-day climbs.

Any other food ideas? The gel debate is interesting.

In reply to:
ALSO, don't be scared off by the captain

I'm not, I look forward to it eagerly. I'm only 20, so the regular northwest face and the Nose both loom on the horizon :)

Dude, nix the Chacos for Yosemite descents. Sure, they'd be fine for Manure Pile, but it sounds like you're eying bigger things. Chacos would SUCK in the North Dome Gully or on the East Ledges. Protect your toes, so you can climb tomorrow! Just hang your approach shoes on your harness, in whichever way feels best to you. It's amazing how much less awkward your pack will be without the shoes in it.

Where was your Platypus leaking? From the hose, right? When climbing, I don't mess with hydration hose things, I just carry a 2L Platypus with a screw lid. Yes, you have to take it out to drink, but Platypus products have a lifetime guarantee, and I've been carrying mine for YEARS with no leaking. I've chimneyed with the thing in my pack a zillion times. I recommend the Platypus over Nalgenes because it keeps the weight up against your body, and it gets smaller as your drink it, a big bonus!!

So I am a BIG proponent of both partners carrying their own shit. It really annoys me when I am climbing with someone, and she or he is like, oh, you're bringing a pack, can I stick my bar/sunglasses/jacket/etc in there? Get a small pack that stays up close to your body, like the BD Bullet or something similar. Both people carry their own stuff, all the time. Then, you get used to it, and you don't have to put that big heavy pack on every other pitch.

Everyone who keeps telling you to ditch the water... I disagree. I live here in Yosemite and am a fairly moderate climber... you're going to be STUCK IN LINE on these routes you want to do, which means you are going to spend lots of time baking in the sun, and you're going to want to stay hydrated. If I'm on a popular Grade III or IV moderate, I bring 2L of water. I also bring food with me, usually 2 bars and some very salty peanuts or cashews.

Now, I carry most of what you do when I climb. I bring a fleece (gasp) and sometimes a windshirt too, because I get cold easily. But, with my shoes on my harness (never in the pack), carrying half the stuff all the time (even when leading), and keeping the water up against my body... it's a totally bearable load. And I'm a pretty small person who leads with A LOT of gear on me. Just suck it up... it'll get easier. And MAKE YOUR PARTNER CARRY HIS OR HER OWN SHIT.


Dec 24, 2008, 2:52 AM
Post #52 of 56 (1393 views)

Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 30603

Re: [roseraie] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Hmm, I disagree about the whole 'everyone carries their own shit' philosophy. Long routes are a team endeavor, the team should decide what to do. If the weather is good and you don't take a pack, sure, everyone carries their own snacks. But if the decision is made to take a single pack, all the shit goes in the pack and the SECOND CARRIES THE PACK. You both get to decide what goes in there, and you'll both be carrying it if you're swinging leads. If you're not swinging leads, and you're a designated second for the whole route, well, just shut up and do what you're told since you're being guided.

Also, disagree about the chacos. They're my preferred descent shoe because they're less bulky than shoes. I've done many yosemite descents in them.

The gatorade mix is a good way to go as well. Three liters of water per person is probably too much for most routes unless there is a long approach. You need to ration and hydrate before and after the climb.


Dec 24, 2008, 3:36 AM
Post #53 of 56 (1386 views)

Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26800

Re: [caughtinside] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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Yeah, second carries the pack in summer. Especially on harder routes.
Who wants the extra insecurity of an off-balance pack whilst on the sharp end?
Let the second deal with it, and give them the 3rd hand if necessary.


Dec 27, 2008, 11:44 PM
Post #54 of 56 (1358 views)

Registered: Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 156

Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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The more you get out the better you will get at cutting down pack weight. Bring less food and learn to live with it. If there is water on the descent bring less... pre-hydrate. Even if you get thirsty learn to live with it..... living witha bit of self deprivation can be really important if you start doing big alpine routes. Camel-Packs are more comfy than carrying bottles. Bring a smaller rack..... if you are doing a route with an easy section that is all hand cracks but the cruxes take fingersize pro bring very few hand size peices and run it out on the easy stuff and carry the little stuff to protect the cruxes. If you can lead 5.11 at the crag only do big routes to 5.10 where you can carry less pro without sketchin out.... caryy small packs too, when you are packing a big pack you will be tempted to fill it up.. with a small pack you obvious carry less gear. Just always remember headlamps, a lighter, a knife (especially if you may have to retreat) those shiny space blankets are good to have as well as a toque. Having a toque on your head and a light sweater is warmer than a heavy sweater and no hat. Just a couple tips....

Partner angry

Dec 28, 2008, 12:10 AM
Post #55 of 56 (1352 views)

Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405

Re: [Durin] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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So I didn't read all the other responses but I'm going to reply.

For a one day route, you only need maybe 2 liters. 1 or 1.5 will probably do. Chug a bunch before you start. You'll be 4 pitches up before you even think about being thirsty.

Carry a light windbreaker or a super light synthetic puffy. Both are lighter and less bulky then a fleece.

For shoes, try not to wear them. If you must, try to ditch them somewhere that the descent crosses the approach. Walk with your feet in the front of your climbing shoes and your heels hanging out on the ground. A pair of sacrificial socks can help.

If you really do need footwear, you can get $5 flip flops or make a pair out of cardboard, webbing, and duct tape. They'll be light and low profile and will easily stash in a camelback, even when full.

Food, just a few cliff bars (I prefer the Snickers Marathon) and a couple shots of GU. If you ran out of food, you're normal. Eat when you finish.

You'll easily be able to have it all in a medium camelback (I don't use the bladder, just a 2L plastic jug inside). I have done this on most of the routes in the valley, Astroman, Steck Salathe, Rostrum, RNWF Half Dome, etc. I've also employed it on the Diamond and Black Canyon in CO. It works. Only one route, Moonlight Buttress in Zion, was I not willing to climb with that shit. We just hauled a small backpack using a mini-trax and no mechanical advantage.

If this doesn't work for you and you need more stuff or it's causing you to move too slow, then it's time for you to revisit how you're approaching multipitch routes because you're doing something wrong. Also, you don't need to be comfortable when you get benighted, it's supposed to suck. That's where good stories come from.


Jan 2, 2009, 8:53 PM
Post #56 of 56 (1275 views)

Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092

Re: [angry] All-day routes: pack weight is horrible [In reply to]
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The per person "packed gear" necessary for EB middle cathedral, other grade IIIs, etc:
1) a quart of water in a pepsi bottle (these bottles are tough, lightweight) Chug up on fluids the night B4 and the morning of the climb. You can carry more fluid comfortably in your bloodstream than you can in a pack.
2) 2 power bars and a king size snickers in the bottom of the chalk bag
3) a space blanket
4) a very small 1st aid kit.
5) plenty of common sense, experience, and speed.

Until you have #5, you should keep working on developing that stuff until you're actually ready to do longer routes....I mean, until you can easily do n=7 two pitch routes or n=15 one pitch routes in a day, why punish yourself trying to punch off a 15 pitch route? You're just gonna slow down everyone else and end up bivying....

Total weight: ~3 lbs????

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