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basilisk
Jan 4, 2009, 6:39 PM
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Glad to hear.
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brownie710
Jan 4, 2009, 6:40 PM
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I think we should push for more regulation of people who wish to procreate before we meddle with climbers
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joneus
Jan 4, 2009, 9:00 PM
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brownie710 wrote: I think we should push for more regulation of people who wish to procreate before we meddle with climbers
Wholeheartedly Agreed!
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noburu
Jan 4, 2009, 9:10 PM
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"There was speculation the climbers may have got off route and ended up on another climb which was only partially finished with small, temporary bolts."
Anyone ever heard of "temprary bolts" before?
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dj69
Jan 4, 2009, 9:21 PM
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noburu wrote: Anyone ever heard of "temprary bolts" before?
1/4 inch expansion bolt maybe?
The description of the hilti KB3 1/4" X 1 3/4" is:
"An expansion bolt for aid climbing and alpine raps. Can also be used as a temporary prep bolt for bolting lines."
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Maddhatter
Jan 4, 2009, 9:29 PM
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dj69 wrote: noburu wrote: Anyone ever heard of "temprary bolts" before? 1/4 inch expansion bolt maybe? The description of the hilti KB3 1/4" X 1 3/4" is: "An expansion bolt for aid climbing and alpine raps. Can also be used as a temporary prep bolt for bolting lines."
Button heads kill. There just a stud with "wings" you beat into the hole. How ever they can be removed easily so they still get used. It is fucking weak to not replace them after the line is done.
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salamanizer
Jan 4, 2009, 10:02 PM
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Maddhatter wrote: Button heads kill. There just a stud with "wings" you beat into the hole. How ever they can be removed easily so they still get used. It is fucking weak to not replace them after the line is done.
Wow, what a completely ignorant statement.
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Maddhatter
Jan 4, 2009, 10:11 PM
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salamanizer wrote: Maddhatter wrote: Button heads kill. There just a stud with "wings" you beat into the hole. How ever they can be removed easily so they still get used. It is fucking weak to not replace them after the line is done. Wow, what a completely ignorant statement.
How many have you pulled and replaced with good bolts?
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lrossi
Jan 4, 2009, 10:23 PM
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brownie710 wrote: I think we should push for more regulation of people who wish to procreate before we meddle with climbers
You speak the truth.
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blondgecko
Moderator
Jan 4, 2009, 10:29 PM
Post #11 of 91
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Moved to A&IA.
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suilenroc
Jan 4, 2009, 11:08 PM
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Wait... His rope snapped? wtf?
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asiaclimber
Jan 4, 2009, 11:27 PM
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They should test the rope for foreign chemicals. I had a friend that thought it was ok to climb on his rope after it got transmission fluid on it. Turns out this was not such a good idea. I'm glad i looked it up before going out climbing with him. It could have accidently gotten something spilled on it while sitting in the trunk of a car that broke down the integrity of the rope. The idea that the rope just snapped after 1 bolt blew tells me that the rope itself was suspect and would have broken even if the bolt had held.
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Factor2
Jan 5, 2009, 12:23 AM
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It may have also been sliced over a sharp edge. Hard to say
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patto
Jan 5, 2009, 12:24 AM
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That article is full of errors there is no use jumping to conclusions.
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blondgecko
Moderator
Jan 5, 2009, 12:37 AM
Post #16 of 91
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patto wrote: That article is full of errors there is no use jumping to conclusions.
This is correct.
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patto
Jan 5, 2009, 2:50 AM
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If you do wish to comment on this accident then a good account of the event can be found here:
http://groups.google.com/...ead/d70ea9d59198ccb7
The talk of regulation was started from a spurious scoop from an ignorant reporter. The article should be ignored.
(This post was edited by patto on Jan 5, 2009, 2:51 AM)
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shockabuku
Jan 5, 2009, 2:56 AM
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patto wrote: The article should be ignored.
Probably true, but it might not be ignored by everyone. That could be devastating.
From the 2nd article:
"the nut and fixed hanger became detached from the expansion bolt (leaving the threaded stud remaining in the rock) and he fell past the ledge and his belayer. At this time his rope ran through and was completely cut by a sharp V-shaped notch of ironstone"
(This post was edited by shockabuku on Jan 5, 2009, 3:00 AM)
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salamanizer
Jan 5, 2009, 3:14 AM
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Maddhatter wrote: salamanizer wrote: Maddhatter wrote: Button heads kill. There just a stud with "wings" you beat into the hole. How ever they can be removed easily so they still get used. It is fucking weak to not replace them after the line is done. Wow, what a completely ignorant statement. How many have you pulled and replaced with good bolts?
Dozens, like more than 50 less than 100. I've pulled bran new ones, 30yr old ones and everything in between.
I also regularly use them when drilling by hand on new routes. I have personally placed at least 100 of em. I've whipped on them, hauled double bags on them, hung a portaledge in a storm on them. I'm here to tell you that when they are placed correctly they are bomber.
Yeah, after 30 years they may not be so reliable, but that's not my problem. If the route is in an area where it will see many accents, I will replace them with something bigger, but if it's in the back country I'm not going out of my way to replace them so that some wanker can come along 10 years later and have some delusional feeling of safety.
Button heads don't kill, dumbass decisions kill.
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majid_sabet
Jan 5, 2009, 5:40 AM
Post #20 of 91
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noburu wrote: "There was speculation the climbers may have got off route and ended up on another climb which was only partially finished with small, temporary bolts."
Anyone ever heard of "temprary bolts" before?
Temp bolts should be installed with the same standard as a regular bolt.Any other way, would be a disaster .
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suilenroc
Jan 5, 2009, 6:29 AM
Post #21 of 91
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salamanizer wrote: Maddhatter wrote: salamanizer wrote: Maddhatter wrote: Button heads kill. There just a stud with "wings" you beat into the hole. How ever they can be removed easily so they still get used. It is fucking weak to not replace them after the line is done. Wow, what a completely ignorant statement. How many have you pulled and replaced with good bolts? Dozens, like more than 50 less than 100. I've pulled bran new ones, 30yr old ones and everything in between. I also regularly use them when drilling by hand on new routes. I have personally placed at least 100 of em. I've whipped on them, hauled double bags on them, hung a portaledge in a storm on them. I'm here to tell you that when they are placed correctly they are bomber. Yeah, after 30 years they may not be so reliable, but that's not my problem. If the route is in an area where it will see many accents, I will replace them with something bigger, but if it's in the back country I'm not going out of my way to replace them so that some wanker can come along 10 years later and have some delusional feeling of safety. Button heads don't kill, dumbass decisions kill.
Best read of the day... Awesome.
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majid_sabet
Jan 5, 2009, 6:03 PM
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By Angela Saurine
January 06, 2009 12:00am
A SHARP V-shaped notch of ironstone was to blame for cutting the rope of a man who fell to his death in the Blue Mountains, fellow climbers claimed yesterday.
Other adventurers in the area at the time told the Australian Accident Register website Nick Kaczorowski, 24, was leading another climber along the Bunny Bucket Buttress route when they lost their way on Friday morning. They began following another route, to the right of the original route at Pierces Pass, which climbers believe was probably an unfinished route or new project.
The two, and another pair of climbers following closely behind, thought they were still climbing Bunny Buckets.
Part way up the two climbers stopped and improvised a belay, using a single bolt on a small ledge. Mr Kaczorowski started to lead and was attempting to clip the second bolt when the fittings became detached from the expansion bolt and he fell past the ledge and his belayer.
His rope ran through and was sliced by the sharp V-shaped notch of ironstone.
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j_ung
Jan 5, 2009, 6:15 PM
Post #23 of 91
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One bolt, eh? Of the same ilk as the one that broke? If so, did the cut rope save the belayer's life? Weird.
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dingus
Jan 5, 2009, 6:30 PM
Post #24 of 91
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salamanizer wrote: I also regularly use them when drilling by hand on new routes. I have personally placed at least 100 of em. I've whipped on them, hauled double bags on them, hung a portaledge in a storm on them. I'm here to tell you that when they are placed correctly they are bomber. Yeah, after 30 years they may not be so reliable, but that's not my problem. If the route is in an area where it will see many accents, I will replace them with something bigger, but if it's in the back country I'm not going out of my way to replace them so that some wanker can come along 10 years later and have some delusional feeling of safety. Button heads don't kill, dumbass decisions kill.
That was a beautiful post man.
I placed a 5/16 button head on lead, back in the early 90s. Actually placed several but this one always bothered me... a little scoop-chip blow off the edge of the hole when I hammered it home.
This route is a black water streak granite knob climb. A dry waterfall in other words.
So more than a decade later, 12 - 15 years later, I deciced to replace it with a good modern stud bolt.
So I reled the route, then rapped down with the tools to fix that bolt.
Cept one problem batman.... after 12 years in the rock, in a black water streak no less, I could NOT remove the bolt. I couldn't get to budge, not one millimeter. I did not have a 5/16 tuning fork (which may have done the trick, quien sabe) but I couldn't get the tiniest sliver of action beneath the hanger.
I tried harder and harder and I sorta damaged the hanger in the process. So in the end I beat the hanger flat and placed another bolt right next to it.
I still need to get back up there and clean up that shit.
Anyway, for the modern rc.noob, buttonheads should be treated with suspicion, nevertheless. They aren't a death sentence but new ones aren't being placed much anymore which means most of them are old time bombs.
They may be good. But maybe not.
DMT
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shockabuku
Jan 5, 2009, 6:47 PM
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j_ung wrote: One bolt, eh? Of the same ilk as the one that broke? If so, did the cut rope save the belayer's life? Weird.
The bolt didn't break, according to one of the sources, the nut and hanger fell off the stud. Not an equipment failure (except for maybe the cut rope) but perhaps failure to inspect the bolt.
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