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jeepnphreak
Jan 11, 2009, 3:20 AM
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Ok we are planning a trip starting in MT (home) and ending up in j tree. the trip will be this spring break so I have some time. My trad buds are not going to be able to come with us so its time for me to start my own rack.
out of these 2 packages what would work you pick from to start a rack with. I will be doubling up on a few things as needed.
besides sand stone Iam really not sure what other rock I will encounter,
http://acmeclimbing.com/...WPROD&ProdID=496
http://acmeclimbing.com/...WPROD&ProdID=783
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andrewG
Jan 11, 2009, 3:41 AM
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Go with what you like more from climbing with your friends racks. I personally would go with the BD package, I really like my c4s. Only thing I don't like about it is the hexes, I love my curved WC hexes.
That being said, how much are you saving by buying the package vs. buying sets of hardware from different companies? If the money isn't an issue I'd buy my favorites from different companies.
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moose_droppings
Jan 11, 2009, 4:44 AM
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Its all very personal but I'd go with the metolius set myself. Their curved nuts and hexes will fit securely into more nooks and crannies than the watered down generic BD passive pro.
As for their cams, they make me feel warmer inside and you get one more than the BD's.
Really you should use some other peoples cams and see what feels better for you.
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krosbakken
Jan 11, 2009, 5:19 AM
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I vote neither. And Ill tell you why.
#1 you could get all of this stuff cheaper if you found deals and pieced it together.
#2 I hate the bigger cams on the metolius cams but love the smaller and vice verse for the BD cams.
If I were you I would piece together #1 - #4 metolius cams and then on up in BD cams, I think thats #.75 and up. and then a set of nuts, a couple of hexes and thats a pretty basic trad rack.
But all of this is personal preferens, so try out some friends gear and see what you like.
But if you insist on getting one of these packages, I would go with the BD package.
just my 2 cents. 
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meahtots
Jan 11, 2009, 6:40 AM
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krosbakken wrote: #2 I hate the bigger cams on the metolius cams but love the smaller and vice verse for the BD cams.
agreed
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tradrenn
Jan 11, 2009, 9:49 PM
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If I were you I would look elsewhere for gear. The package from BD looks good at first but:
Hexes are not that useful this days unless you climb in crappy rock and/or easier grades, 5.0 to 5.7.
BD nut tool will hurt your palm if you cleaning a stuck/set nut so do yourself a favor and get this one
Metolius Freenut with Palm Protector Nut Tool
As far as BD C4's go:
.3 is useless beyond believe, basically it is to wide for it's size.
.4 & .5 are very nice if you like it, I love mine for finger cracks, see if you could try using someone else .4 & .5 before you buy it.
.75 and up are very fine cams, you just can't go wrong with a set of BD's, but for now I would go up to #3.
For smaller cams I would look into Metolius 3CU or Aliens.
(Do a search about Aliens as there used to be recall on them)
HTH
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brownie710
Jan 11, 2009, 9:49 PM
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krosbakken wrote: I vote neither. And Ill tell you why. #1 you could get all of this stuff cheaper if you found deals and pieced it together. #2 I hate the bigger cams on the metolius cams but love the smaller and vice verse for the BD cams. If I were you I would piece together #1 - #4 metolius cams and then on up in BD cams, I think thats #.75 and up. and then a set of nuts, a couple of hexes and thats a pretty basic trad rack. .
I second this, try spadout.com which has lists of all the cheapest deals of any gear on the net which is usually mostly accurate. Plus if you piecemeal your rack you can weed out shit you probably don't want...such as a full set of hexes. The only expection of the above suggestion might be grabbing a Met fat cam or two if your going to be climbing lots of sandstone
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climbinginchico
Jan 11, 2009, 9:59 PM
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Tradrenn is totally correct here. This is good advice.
I would only buy stuff you have used and like from experience.
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ja1484
Jan 11, 2009, 10:08 PM
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Don't go with a package. Your rack should evolve out of trying lots of different stuff and figuring out what you like. My rack looks like a yard sale and that's how it should be.
I confess, however, that there's a lot of Metolius in there, but it's mainly because their stuff handles really well for me.
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jsj7051
Jan 11, 2009, 11:24 PM
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These guys have given you very good advice ,alot of it depends on you personaly.Example, I like BD C3's because I have trouble with fat fingers in small Met. cams. Also , there is something to be said for supporting your local shop and the hands on for deciding what to buy. IMO Jeff
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coolcat83
Jan 11, 2009, 11:58 PM
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jsj7051 wrote: These guys have given you very good advice ,alot of it depends on you personaly.Example, I like BD C3's because I have trouble with fat fingers in small Met. cams. Also , there is something to be said for supporting your local shop and the hands on for deciding what to buy. IMO Jeff
i on the other hand like the met cams with my large hands and fingers because they sit well in them. so it's really experience and personal preference.
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esoteric1
Jan 12, 2009, 12:07 AM
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ill pretty much echo everything above, stay away from package deals, you want to dial each individual piece to what your needs are, and the only thing hex`s are good for are top rope anchors, save your money and get what you want, not whats offered to you.
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seeds
Jan 12, 2009, 1:30 AM
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where in montana are you climbing?
i would also suggest peicing together a rack.
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caliclimbergrl
Jan 12, 2009, 2:07 AM
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tradrenn wrote: If I were you I would look elsewhere for gear. The package from BD looks good at first but: Hexes are not that useful this days unless you climb in crappy rock and/or easier grades, 5.0 to 5.7. BD nut tool will hurt your palm if you cleaning a stuck/set nut so do yourself a favor and get this one Metolius Freenut with Palm Protector Nut Tool [image]http://images.mec.ca/media/Images/Products/Climbing/5000602_v1_m56577569830707278.jpg[/image] As far as BD C4's go: .3 is useless beyond believe, basically it is to wide for it's size. .4 & .5 are very nice if you like it, I love mine for finger cracks, see if you could try using someone else .4 & .5 before you buy it. .75 and up are very fine cams, you just can't go wrong with a set of BD's, but for now I would go up to #3. For smaller cams I would look into Metolius 3CU or Aliens. (Do a search about Aliens as there used to be recall on them) HTH
That's EXACTLY what I was going to say right down to the last detail!! Well, actually, I only go down to .5 in BD, but other than that, my thoughts exactly! :)
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rocknice2
Jan 12, 2009, 2:16 AM
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A lot of good advice above
A little off topic but depending how long you road trip is you may want to start in J-Tree and work your way home. The Mojave can get pretty warm in late spring.
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caliclimbergrl
Jan 12, 2009, 8:29 AM
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Here's a good deal on part of a starter rack:
http://www.backcountry.com/store/BLD0918/Black-Diamond-Camalot-C4-Package-05-3.html
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epoch
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Jan 12, 2009, 11:49 AM
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 hotlink Fail
(This post was edited by epoch on Jan 12, 2009, 11:50 AM)
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jeepnphreak
Jan 12, 2009, 4:38 PM
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thanks a tons for the responses. Really a lot of good info.
I have a basic contact of BD metolius and wild country gear, I have palaced only a hand full of gear, most of my experience is seconding and cleaning the routs.
Most of my friends are fans of one brand. It like asking a Ford guy what he thinks about chevy. its no good.
So Iam still in research mode, Iam going to start buliding up a rack piecemeal and see what it turns in to. as I need pieces Ill add. I think thats gong to be my plan of attack
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the_climber
Jan 12, 2009, 5:28 PM
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tradrenn wrote: Hexes are not that useful this days unless you climb in crappy rock
Are you trying to say you figured out the reason so many Alberta climbers carry hexes?
Oh, wait... you might be right. The rock only gets better from here.
As for the OP:
Like everyone else is saying, piece it together from what you like. It'll likely be the same price or cheaper.
Small cams, I prefer the Metolius. TCU up to Orange. 4CU from Yellow up to the next 3 sizes.
Med to large cam, my preference is WC or DMM. BD's are great, but it depends on what rock you'll be climbing most (subject of hot debate), and what your preference is (fact). This includes if you like U-stem or single stem more also. Both have their pros and cons. I like a mix of the 2.
As for hexes, great wat to fill in gaps or double up. Cheap, bomb proof, and efective. Currently there is no brand that coms close to the versatility of the WC curved hexes.
Forget about small hexes. The 4 largest WC (Largest is Purple), or BD #7(red),8,9,10 are the most versatile.
Nuts, BD/DMM/WC/Metolius... they all work. Find what you prefer the most. Can't go wrong with the BD's or one of the BD knock-offs. DMM or Wild County would be my second choices.
You have to get what you like.
Tricams are great too. Pink through brown are the most usefull. Add blue if you're on a lot of chossy limestone.
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jeepnphreak
Jan 12, 2009, 9:20 PM
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the_climber wrote: tradrenn wrote: Hexes are not that useful this days unless you climb in crappy rock I donnt quite agree with that, I have used hexes for anchor bulidng where nuts/stopper were too small,
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shoo
Jan 12, 2009, 9:54 PM
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jeepnphreak wrote: Most of my friends are fans of one brand. It like asking a Ford guy what he thinks about chevy. its no good.
You, sir, are wise beyond your years.
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the_climber
Jan 12, 2009, 10:03 PM
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jeepnphreak wrote: cheeztit wrote: tradrenn wrote: Hexes are not that useful this days unless you climb in crappy rock I donnt quite agree with that, I have used hexes for anchor bulidng where nuts/stopper were too small,
You... uhhh... seem to have cheeze titted that.
But yes, hexes still have their place.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Jan 13, 2009, 2:44 PM)
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tradrenn
Jan 13, 2009, 9:50 AM
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the_climber wrote: tradrenn wrote: Hexes are not that useful this days unless you climb in crappy rock Are you trying to say you figured out the reason so many Alberta climbers carry hexes? Oh, wait... you might be right. The rock only gets better from here.
Are you trying to say you finally figured out the reason why I moved from Chossy Ontario to Uber solid BC ?
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the_climber
Jan 13, 2009, 2:46 PM
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tradrenn wrote: the_climber wrote: tradrenn wrote: Hexes are not that useful this days unless you climb in crappy rock Are you trying to say you figured out the reason so many Alberta climbers carry hexes? Oh, wait... you might be right. The rock only gets better from here. Are you trying to say you finally figured out the reason why I moved from Chossy Ontario to Uber solid BC ?
I think you just admited to Onterrible limestone being worse than Great Canadian Chossies limestone.
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tradrenn
Jan 13, 2009, 7:29 PM
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the_climber wrote: tradrenn wrote: the_climber wrote: tradrenn wrote: Hexes are not that useful this days unless you climb in crappy rock Are you trying to say you figured out the reason so many Alberta climbers carry hexes? Oh, wait... you might be right. The rock only gets better from here. Are you trying to say you finally figured out the reason why I moved from Chossy Ontario to Uber solid BC ? I think you just admited to Onterrible limestone being worse than Great Canadian Chossies limestone.
Your limestone looks very good on my pics, never climbed there, just drove thru it really quick, it was -28 that day.
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