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suilenroc
Jan 25, 2009, 5:58 PM
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In reply to: “As a matter of practice I would check the Grigri 100 percent of the time when I belayed someone else,” Trujillo said, “but I probably only checked it 50 percent of the time when I was the climber.”
Yup.
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swoopee
Jan 25, 2009, 6:16 PM
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In reply to: That’s why it is critical that individuals employ a standard set of commands or a “safety check” before starting every climb.
Amen, and amen.
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curt
Jan 25, 2009, 6:24 PM
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swoopee wrote: In reply to: That’s why it is critical that individuals employ a standard set of commands or a “safety check” before starting every climb. Amen, and amen.
Or, just don't climb with anyone who's a fucking retard.
Curt
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getout87
Jan 25, 2009, 6:40 PM
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curt wrote: swoopee wrote: In reply to: That’s why it is critical that individuals employ a standard set of commands or a “safety check” before starting every climb. Amen, and amen. Or, just don't climb with anyone who's a fucking retard. Curt
Ding.
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camhead
Jan 25, 2009, 6:53 PM
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the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself.
But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place.
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johnwesely
Jan 25, 2009, 7:39 PM
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Yet I see people all the time who do not keep their hand on the break rope.
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suilenroc
Jan 25, 2009, 7:41 PM
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camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place.
Curious. Some friends and I tried to use a grigri like an ATC... Didn't work. Have you actually tried this or are you just thinking it would work.?.?
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camhead
Jan 25, 2009, 10:08 PM
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suilenroc wrote: camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place. Curious. Some friends and I tried to use a grigri like an ATC... Didn't work. Have you actually tried this or are you just thinking it would work.?.?
no, I have not personally ever tried it. However, the fact that I am alive right now basically lends validity to the fact.
Years ago I was climbing, stupidly did not double-check my partner's gri gri, was halfway up a route when he announced that it was threaded backwards. I had heard from a trusted source that backwards-threaded gri gris can still provide enough friction to use as non-locking belay devices, so I yelled down to him to just assume that it was an ATC.
I lowered off the route with no problems, although it did shake us both up quite a bit. There was definitely enough friction to lower; I'm not sure how it would have caught a whipper, though.
How did it "not work" for you, out of curiousity?
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angry
Jan 25, 2009, 10:19 PM
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I've recently come into possession of two "Hewbolt" belay devices. They function very differently than a grigri but do the same thing. Auto-lock (locking assist, sorry Malcolm) and pull a lever to lower.
If you load it backwards, it will still autolock (see above parenthesis) and provides such an absurd amount of friction that the climber would never make it off the ground.
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blondgecko
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Jan 25, 2009, 10:29 PM
Post #11 of 46
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Moved to A&IA.
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suilenroc
Jan 25, 2009, 10:36 PM
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camhead wrote: suilenroc wrote: camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place. Curious. Some friends and I tried to use a grigri like an ATC... Didn't work. Have you actually tried this or are you just thinking it would work.?.? no, I have not personally ever tried it. However, the fact that I am alive right now basically lends validity to the fact. Years ago I was climbing, stupidly did not double-check my partner's gri gri, was halfway up a route when he announced that it was threaded backwards. I had heard from a trusted source that backwards-threaded gri gris can still provide enough friction to use as non-locking belay devices, so I yelled down to him to just assume that it was an ATC. I lowered off the route with no problems, although it did shake us both up quite a bit. There was definitely enough friction to lower; I'm not sure how it would have caught a whipper, though. How did it "not work" for you, out of curiousity?
Our test was a bit different. We loaded the GriGri properly and then prevented the cam from pinching the rope. During the fall (10 feet off ground) we expected with the rope in the brake position for the device to work like an atc. Only the rope just feed through both my hand and the device...
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angry
Jan 25, 2009, 10:47 PM
Post #13 of 46
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suilenroc wrote: camhead wrote: suilenroc wrote: camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place. Curious. Some friends and I tried to use a grigri like an ATC... Didn't work. Have you actually tried this or are you just thinking it would work.?.? no, I have not personally ever tried it. However, the fact that I am alive right now basically lends validity to the fact. Years ago I was climbing, stupidly did not double-check my partner's gri gri, was halfway up a route when he announced that it was threaded backwards. I had heard from a trusted source that backwards-threaded gri gris can still provide enough friction to use as non-locking belay devices, so I yelled down to him to just assume that it was an ATC. I lowered off the route with no problems, although it did shake us both up quite a bit. There was definitely enough friction to lower; I'm not sure how it would have caught a whipper, though. How did it "not work" for you, out of curiousity? Our test was a bit different. We loaded the GriGri properly and then prevented the cam from pinching the rope. During the fall (10 feet off ground) we expected with the rope in the brake position for the device to work like an atc. Only the rope just feed through both my hand and the device...
There are dramatic angle changes depending on the direction you load it.
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docburner
Jan 25, 2009, 11:03 PM
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It sounds like he was lead belaying him on the route. My question is how can he get to the 4th bolt without the belayer knowing? The way I belay with it, I know right after they clip the first bolt and they are on belay, it wouldn't be possible for me to not realize right then if I do it wrong. That being said I always check my belayer, and I always check when I'm belaying (I also always check if the carabiner is locked both on the ground and when they have clipped the first bolt)
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lena_chita
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Jan 25, 2009, 11:54 PM
Post #15 of 46
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suilenroc wrote: camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place. Curious. Some friends and I tried to use a grigri like an ATC... Didn't work. Have you actually tried this or are you just thinking it would work.?.?
While I have not personally tried BELAYING that way, I was once BELAYED that way (sport lead). My bad for not checking, of course, as well as my partner's mistake.
The belayer realized the mistake only after she caught the fall and I needed to boink to get back on the rock. She usually belays with an ATC, and obviously had no problem at all feeding the rope or catching the fall with the gri-gri threaded backwards. And I was obviously grateful for her habbit of not taking the hand off the rope, and thus not turning my lapse of attention in terms of checking her setup into an accident report.
It also made me into a more attentive climber... but that is beside the point.
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uhoh
Jan 26, 2009, 1:12 AM
Post #16 of 46
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camhead wrote: suilenroc wrote: camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place. Curious. Some friends and I tried to use a grigri like an ATC... Didn't work. Have you actually tried this or are you just thinking it would work.?.? no, I have not personally ever tried it. However, the fact that I am alive right now basically lends validity to the fact.
I have. I don't recall what happened though.
Edit: Actually, I do remember. I had wanted to solo lead and a grigri was the best device I had available that would have enabled that. In that regard, the grigri was actually set correctly as it did catch a short fall (about 3 - 4 feet). There was a lot of friction when I had tried to pull the rope through, however, which was one of the two reasons I stopped doing it.
(This post was edited by uhoh on Jan 26, 2009, 1:16 AM)
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knormal
Jan 26, 2009, 1:13 AM
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lena_chita wrote: suilenroc wrote: camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place. Curious. Some friends and I tried to use a grigri like an ATC... Didn't work. Have you actually tried this or are you just thinking it would work.?.? While I have not personally tried BELAYING that way, I was once BELAYED that way (sport lead). My bad for not checking, of course, as well as my partner's mistake. The belayer realized the mistake only after she caught the fall and I needed to boink to get back on the rock. She usually belays with an ATC, and obviously had no problem at all feeding the rope or catching the fall with the gri-gri threaded backwards. And I was obviously grateful for her habbit of not taking the hand off the rope, and thus not turning my lapse of attention in terms of checking her setup into an accident report. It also made me into a more attentive climber... but that is beside the point.
How did she have the grigri connected to her harness? I'm trying this right now, and when the grigri is loaded backwards it twists upside down which allows the rope to feed. The only way I can get it to work is if I hold on to the biner to stop it from twisting, and even then it doesn't provide much friction at all.
(This post was edited by knormal on Jan 26, 2009, 1:13 AM)
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lena_chita
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Jan 26, 2009, 2:16 AM
Post #18 of 46
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knormal wrote: lena_chita wrote: suilenroc wrote: camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place. Curious. Some friends and I tried to use a grigri like an ATC... Didn't work. Have you actually tried this or are you just thinking it would work.?.? While I have not personally tried BELAYING that way, I was once BELAYED that way (sport lead). My bad for not checking, of course, as well as my partner's mistake. The belayer realized the mistake only after she caught the fall and I needed to boink to get back on the rock. She usually belays with an ATC, and obviously had no problem at all feeding the rope or catching the fall with the gri-gri threaded backwards. And I was obviously grateful for her habbit of not taking the hand off the rope, and thus not turning my lapse of attention in terms of checking her setup into an accident report. It also made me into a more attentive climber... but that is beside the point. How did she have the grigri connected to her harness? I'm trying this right now, and when the grigri is loaded backwards it twists upside down which allows the rope to feed. The only way I can get it to work is if I hold on to the biner to stop it from twisting, and even then it doesn't provide much friction at all.
Well, it's been couple years since that episode, but the way Iremember it, the gri-gri was threaded backwards (the side that has the hand picture actually went to me, the climber) and also attached to the harness backwards-- e.i. instead of having the lever on the left side, the lever was on the right side, and opened DOWN, instead of up.
The way you are trying it right now is to thread it incorrectly, but still attach it to the harness with the lever on the left side, that's where the twisting is coming from, I am guessing.
And I don't know what you mean by "friction"-- it has no more friction in this position than a regular ATC does, but no less, either.
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srwings
Jan 27, 2009, 1:59 AM
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suilenroc wrote: camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. But, in order to know this and be prepared for it, one would have to not be a fucking retard, and thus would not have threaded it improperly in the first place. Curious. Some friends and I tried to use a grigri like an ATC... Didn't work. Have you actually tried this or are you just thinking it would work.?.?
About 3-4 years ago I was working a project on top rope. I called for a take and weighted the rope. Slowly but noticeably I started descending towards the ground. I yelled down at my belayer to quit goofing around. She yelled back up saying that the rope was slipping through the grigri. That's when it dawned on me that the rope was threaded backwards. While my belayer couldn't stop my descent she was able to lower me safely and in a controlled fashion. I don't understand fully why she was able to lower me relatively slowly given that a reverse threaded grigri makes a really sucky ATC. Probably due to the fact that she had belay gloves on and never allowed me to build up speed.
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cporter
Jan 27, 2009, 2:18 AM
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This is a stupid comment. Even the most experienced climbers still f@ck up some times. Read the american alpine journal's accident reports and you would know this. Lynn Hill once didn't finish her figure eight and almost died, is she a fucking retard? In this is particular situation curt your right this person is retarded, but I'm sure you've never done something stupid that put your life in danger, most people just get lucky and dont take ground falls.
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dreday3000
Jan 27, 2009, 2:49 PM
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camhead wrote: the thing is, that a grirgi threaded backwards can still be used in non-locking, ATC-syled mode; it's not a death sentence in and of itself. .
True enough, but then again, anyone dense enough to thread a Gri Gri backwards is probably relaying on the auto locking properties of the device.
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vegastradguy
Jan 27, 2009, 4:19 PM
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lena_chita wrote: And I don't know what you mean by "friction"-- it has no more friction in this position than a regular ATC does, but no less, either.
a grigri loaded backwards actually has quite a bit less friction than an atc (the bend through the device isnt as sharp)- something to keep in mind. a fat rope going through the grigri would probably feel like you had an atc or close to it, but one of those skinny lines thats popular these days....much different story.
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lodi5onu
Jan 27, 2009, 4:51 PM
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+1 for experience in threading a gri gri backwards
I realized after my brother in law was at the top of a route that it was threaded backwards and began to lower him. He is a good 60+lbs heavier than me and I had complete control the whole time. Was able to completely brake, etc... again, it was toprope, and i'm not sure how you wouldn't notice it beforehand if belaying somebody on lead.
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Gmburns2000
Jan 27, 2009, 4:56 PM
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lodi5onu wrote: +1 for experience in threading a gri gri backwards I realized after my brother in law was at the top of a route that it was threaded backwards and began to lower him. He is a good 60+lbs heavier than me and I had complete control the whole time. Was able to completely brake, etc... again, it was toprope, and i'm not sure how you wouldn't notice it beforehand if belaying somebody on lead.
I make the mistake frequently unfortunately. As a result, I always pick up my end of the rope and follow it back to the gri-gri or the climber to make sure that I or they did it correctly. I've become so obsessive about checking it before the climber or I begins to climb that even my main partners are doing the check as if it is second nature now.
I don't know why I'm making the mistake, but I do it about once a month. I always catch it, though.
Yes, I'm a retard.
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