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dingus
Feb 4, 2009, 7:19 PM
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at places like REI. Are you the sort that asks questions, discusses products with sales staff, look for recommendations? Particularly when it comes to rock climbing technical gear - is this your standard M.O.?
I'm curious because I do NOT seek sales staff advice. I actually avoid it. I avoid the 'stalking clerks' in the aisles too. I know they have a job to do - let them do their job to someone else!
If they had self-checkout I would go an entire shopping trip at REI without speaking to a single employee!
When I want an REI clerk's opinion on a belay device or a pair of shoes I shall give it to him.
Are you one of these clerks? If you see me, leave me be. I have no questions and I don't want your advice.
Thanks in advance.
DMT
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roy_hinkley_jr
Feb 4, 2009, 7:25 PM
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Then shop online. Any good floor manager should go ballistic on their staff if they see a customer that hasn't been contacted after 10 minutes; even 5 minutes is too much. They have no way of knowing in advance that you are a condescending asshole that knows everything. Far better to piss off someone like you than leave a truly worthy customer uncontacted.
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jt512
Feb 4, 2009, 7:28 PM
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dingus wrote: at places like REI. Are you the sort that asks questions, discusses products with sales staff, look for recommendations? Particularly when it comes to rock climbing technical gear - is this your standard M.O.?
At REI? No, because I invariably know more about the gear than the sales clerk does.
But at a good gear shop, like Nomad Ventures in J Tree, where the employees are out climbing on that gear on a daily basis, I ask their advice, unless I know in advance what I'm looking for. I bought a new headlamp last year for the first time in forever, and the kid at Nomad was very helpful in helping me pick one that suited my needs.
Jay
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acorneau
Feb 4, 2009, 7:31 PM
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dingus wrote: Are you one of these clerks? If you see me, leave me be. I have no questions and I don't want your advice.
They don't know who you are and if you need help or not. It's their job to ask you if you need any help. A polite, "no thanks" is all that's required.
(This post was edited by acorneau on Feb 4, 2009, 7:32 PM)
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dingus
Feb 4, 2009, 7:32 PM
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: Then shop online. Any good floor manager should go ballistic on their staff if they see a customer that hasn't been contacted after 10 minutes; even 5 minutes is too much. They have no way of knowing in advance that you are a condescending asshole that knows everything. Far better to piss off someone like you than leave a truly worthy customer uncontacted.
Yes yes quite correct and of course I know all this. I said I understand they are doing their JOBS. I know what a retail clerk is supposed to do, believe it or not.
But underwear to harnesses, cock ring to rappel rings, I don't WANT ANY HELP.
I just smile and say no thank you.
But I would really rather not be confronted and stalked, at all.
Cheers
DMT
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zeke_sf
Feb 4, 2009, 7:34 PM
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My big problem at REI is they lock up all the expensive goodies and it seems I can never find those hordes of advice wielding sales people when I need them to unlock the damn case.
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dingus
Feb 4, 2009, 7:35 PM
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jt512 wrote: dingus wrote: at places like REI. Are you the sort that asks questions, discusses products with sales staff, look for recommendations? Particularly when it comes to rock climbing technical gear - is this your standard M.O.? At REI? No, because I invariably know more about the gear than the sales clerk does. But at a good gear shop, like Nomad Ventures in J Tree, where the employees are out climbing on that gear on a daily basis, I ask their advice, unless I know in advance what I'm looking for. I bought a new headlamp last year for the first time in forever, and the kid at Nomad was very helpful in helping me pick one that suited my needs. Jay
For example we have Marmot Mountaineering ion Berkeley. Its a great gear shop frankly, excellent selection and some genuine experts on the sales staff. Like that Paul dude and his amazing boot molding skillz.
Even there I generally don't want to talk to them much. Hehe one women there snidely corrected my prounciation of Asolo - NO SALE FOR YOU BITCH!!!1111
Cheers J
DMT
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dingus
Feb 4, 2009, 7:35 PM
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acorneau wrote: dingus wrote: Are you one of these clerks? If you see me, leave me be. I have no questions and I don't want your advice. They don't know who you are and if you need help or not. It's their job to ask you if you need any help. A polite, "no thanks" is all that's required.
Thanks Dad.
I am not required to be polite, to anyone, btw.
But you sir have a nice day!
DMT
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dingus
Feb 4, 2009, 7:36 PM
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roy_hinkley_jr wrote: Then shop online. Any good floor manager should go ballistic on their staff if they see a customer that hasn't been contacted after 10 minutes; even 5 minutes is too much. They have no way of knowing in advance that you are a condescending asshole that knows everything. Far better to piss off someone like you than leave a truly worthy customer uncontacted.
Still butt hurt over the Arch I see.
You're a pisser Roy. I hope to meet you some day.
DMT
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retro
Feb 4, 2009, 7:36 PM
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I work at EMS part time (to feed my addiction). I have been rock and ice climbing for 25+ years, guided and am a total "Gear Whore".
To the defense of the sales clerks...they really are only doing their job, and hell...after standing around folding clothes...who wouldn't want to go talk gear with someone that seems interested???
Tha being said, I generally ask if there is anything specific they are looking for, or if they are finding everything OK..and allow them to either start jawing it up or ask a question. I never operate under the assumption that I am coming from a place of authority or greater knowledge.
some clerks don't get the cues and can be very annoying for sure though... 
(This post was edited by retro on Feb 4, 2009, 7:37 PM)
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jakedatc
Feb 4, 2009, 7:37 PM
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You're back on this again Dingus?? Didn't you have this same rant like a year or 2 ago..
When i worked at EMS we were REQUIRED to meet you at the door.. REQUIRED to go ask you questions.. REQUIRED to follow up later and make sure you're finding everything ok. We're also REQUIRED to keep tabs on everyone in the store (ems is smaller than REI so we only have a few people on the floor) as an anti theft mechanism.
As a climber and the one in the store that was the climbing "guy" i hated doing this.. especially since, like you, i generally know what i'm looking for and if i don't then i go seek people out to help. But i had no choice and you get used to it.
A simple "I'm all set, thanks" is good enough for me to let you get on with your searching.. it doesn't have to be a big deal
If you bothered to talk to a manager at the REI about it they would probably tell you the same thing
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dingus
Feb 4, 2009, 7:42 PM
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All I said is I want to be left alone. I know they have a job to do. Their job is customer service. I don't want any.
I don't want to chat. I have no need to demonstrate my knowledge. I don't need advice.
I AM THE CUSTOMER.
I don't want car salesmen doing that to me either. Nor insurance salespeople or telemarketers.
Part of customer service is understanding and then responding to the needs of your customer - well, my need is to be left alone.
And I am always polite to REI sales clerks, even as I avoid them and look other ways when they try to catch my eye.
Earbuds have gone a long way toward solving this vexing issue.
DMT
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shoo
Feb 4, 2009, 7:46 PM
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As an employee at a rock gym with a small retail area and as a gear whore who shops for gear pretty frequently, I see it from both sides of the table.
A few observations as a retail employee (I don't get commissions on sales, btw, so you get my full opinion here)
1) A person walking in our little shop who is approached by a sales staff is many times more likely to make a purchase that day than those who slip by.
2) Customers are often given very, very poor advice by their friends and staff at other retail stores. If you don't help them, they may get truly wrong stuff. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard, "Well, the guy at XXX told me that I should get the most absurdly aggressive shoe I can get." If I don't help them, they may walk away with a godawful piece of gear they don't want / need.
As a customer, I've observed a few things:
1) The retail staff might have no clue what they are talking about. In the case of big name stores that happen to have three letters and are popular in the northeast, it's pretty much a guarantee that the staff has little to no clue.
2) If I'm in need of advice on climbing related gear (almost never, but happens occasionally), I'll often ask if they have some obscure-to-the-general-public piece of climbing equipment in stock, especially if I know they don't have it. Aid and big wall gear, such as pitons and fifi hooks, works well here. If they know what it is and sound confident, chances are good that they are at least some climbing experience. Otherwise, forget it.
3) Whenever I happen to be in a shop and a staff member is helping another customer, I keep a keen ear on what they are saying in case it needs some serious correction. I've heard some pretty poor advice before.
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dingus
Feb 4, 2009, 7:49 PM
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Nice response shoo, thanks. You get it.
DMT
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jakedatc
Feb 4, 2009, 7:50 PM
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Yes, And after that first contact they will understand that. BUT when a manager is on you every day to "go touch base with that guy" "go meet those people at the door" "go see if they need help"
as a employee i HAD to do those things or i'd do poorly on my evaluations, NOT get a measly raise, perhaps not keep my job.
The best time i ever had at EMS was chatting with the sailing people from the Newport to Bermuda race when they came in for supplies. Never would have talked to them if i had waited for them to ask questions.
You can bitch here all you want but don't expect store policies to change. For every one person like you who hates it, There are DOZENS that will write letters and call managers if the store staff does not help them INSTANTLY when they come in the door. They play the numbers and you are not worth it compared to the majority.
I applied to work at Home Depot or Lowes once and the manager tried to get me to memorize some phrase the people at the registers were required to say to every single customer because according to surveys more people wanted to hear it than people who didn't something like "Thanks for shopping at blah blah did you find everything you were looking for?" He kinda pissed me off about it and they didn't call me and i didnt call them
Shoo, Many times we are thrown into situations that aren't are area of expertise. I don't know jack shit about kayaks but when there are only a few employees who are the experts you need to have learned as much as you can and then hopefully help the people the best you can until one of them free's up.
If you need specific advice about certain gear then a big box store is not exactly the best place to go now is it? I don't try to get the same advice from folks at EMS/REI then i would at Rock and Snow or IME. YOU should know better than to expect that.
Also REI and EMS employees do NOT work on commission.. your sale means nothing in their paycheck. It's in their best interest to make you happy rather than shove gear down your throat. The more you come back the more you buy.. buying one boat and never coming back is not a successful sale
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Feb 4, 2009, 7:57 PM)
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TheChase
Feb 4, 2009, 7:50 PM
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Perhaps wearing a sign around your neck might help.
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shotwell
Feb 4, 2009, 7:56 PM
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Retail policies (IMO) don't tailor to the customer. Being accosted in the grocery store because you zipped up your coat (while walking past a frozen foods section) is not a positive shopping experience. Neither is the fact that you are followed, badgered, and have to deal with attempted "upsales" as you are trying to get what you need. My favorite gear stores have a) a dog that requires more attention than the staff and b) a staff that knows what they are doing when you honestly need the help (and go ask for it). Anything more is truly an annoyance.
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jakedatc
Feb 4, 2009, 8:10 PM
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shotwell wrote: Retail policies (IMO) don't tailor to the customer. Being accosted in the grocery store because you zipped up your coat (while walking past a frozen foods section) is not a positive shopping experience. Neither is the fact that you are followed, badgered, and have to deal with attempted "upsales" as you are trying to get what you need. My favorite gear stores have a) a dog that requires more attention than the staff and b) a staff that knows what they are doing when you honestly need the help (and go ask for it). Anything more is truly an annoyance.
I don't know anyone at the store i worked at who worked on getting folks to buy more expensive things than they needed or were looking for. Hell, I tried to warn a lady she was buying a $300 watch with altimeter and tons of stuff her husband probably didn't need but she said "I like the way it looks and the features are cool" She came back in later and said he loved it.
Judging if someone is acting shady or not is a skill that needs to be developed.. Also many folks who steal shit are very very good and you never know it happens. It's a major issue with retail places and it only makes gear prices go UP so you should appreciate it when employees are trying to prevent it.
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Adk
Feb 4, 2009, 8:12 PM
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I do my research before I go and almost always have my mind made up as to what I am going to buy.
Occasionally I will ask if there are advantages of one piece of gear over another that I haven't encountered before.
Do I mind if sales staff ask if they can help me? Sometimes but only if I just got cut off in traffic on the way there. There have been times when a sales staff member has asked if they could help me and I have said "My only question for you is , is this the best price you have to offer the product at?"
It works on occasion and I will continue ask to save a $ here and a few $$ there.
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shoo
Feb 4, 2009, 8:17 PM
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jakedatc wrote: Shoo, Many times we are thrown into situations that aren't are area of expertise. I don't know jack shit about kayaks but when there are only a few employees who are the experts you need to have learned as much as you can and then hopefully help the people the best you can until one of them free's up.
Of course. I understand that. It's likely not the fault of the employee, but the nature of the big name stores. It's just not a good model for anyone except general outdoorsy people. People serious about the sport they are doing should go to a sport specific shop if they need advice.
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Gmburns2000
Feb 4, 2009, 8:22 PM
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I do ask at times; usually it is when I don't know about what I'm purchasing.
For instance, I went to REI looking to buy a backpacking stove and fuel. I had never bought either item, but I had done some homework. Still, I needed some clarification on which stoves use what kinds of fuel and where that kind of fuel could be purchased and not, etc. What I find is that I usually ask questions such that if the sales rep doesn't know the answer, he or she will go and find someone who does. I've got a good BS sensor, and so when I don't get the answer I want (usually I show that I'm not satisfied with their answers by asking more specific questions), I don't buy the product until I'm satisfied.
OK, so you just want to be left alone. That's different from my approach, but understand this: the greetings are not required because they want to be friendly. The greetings are a specific anti-theft technique that is both cheaper and less intimidating than cameras. That Walmart greeter isn't standing at the front because Walmart wants you to feel happy walking through the door. No, the greeter is being friendly to those innocent people simply doing their shopping and notifying those guilty parties that they have been identified by at least one person just in case they want to pick something up for free.
It's an amazingly effective technique, and it won't be going away any time soon. Sorry.
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jakedatc
Feb 4, 2009, 8:27 PM
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exactly, Although my EMS in Middletown,RI had some amazingly good kayakers that worked there when I did. Which was the main focus of that store due to it's location And I was in charge of the climbing stuff.. we had some folks who were really good with backpacks and the other camping stuff. If we couldn't answer a question we would always try to get one of the more specialized people to talk with them.
I actually sold more climbing stuff to sailers than to actual climbers. They are basically aid climbers when dealing with the rigging.. especially the race boat guys. hell one boat ordered 150 OP JC wiregates to use for rigging a certain sail. Then other boats saw that and we pointed them to OP who i think started doing custom color anodizing for boats since they would buy so many.
The big box stores make more money from normal weekend warrior, hobby type people than actual full on climbers, backpackers, etc They can't throw that away for the good of a few people unfortunately.
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Tipton
Feb 4, 2009, 8:30 PM
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I had the single worst job in regards to this. For two years of my life, on Friday and Saturday night from 6-9 pm, I wandered around a Blockbuster Video and pestered people to buy rewards programs. My title was "Active Seller" and by "Active Seller" they meant "piss ant to every customer". I had to wear an apron. I mean, seriously, what does an apron have to do with renting movies?
You know what I learned?
No amount of being hassled will ever be as bad as having to be the poor bastard who is doing the hassling. The sales people aren't complete idiots, they know they are pissing you off. They're just trying to do it as quickly and inconveniently as possible while still satisfying their management's requirements.
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jakedatc
Feb 4, 2009, 8:32 PM
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Yep, walmarts also have cameras and a security in civilian clothes walking around... just to let ya know. They do nothing but try to catch people stealing shit and when i worked there the guy who worked there LOVED handing people to the police.
People are also less likely to steal stuff when there are people around and paying attention to them.
haha Tipton that's for sure. When i worked in the pharmacy at CVS we had to ask evvvvery sinnnnngle timeeee if people had their little card thing.. and if they didn't if they wanted to sign up for one. soo annoying and sooo much time wasted as they forgot and had to go digging for it. and soooo much pissed off if you forgot to ask them, rang it through and then they didn't save the .13 cents off their bottle of Advil.
honestly, the stuff i had to say became ingrained in my head so it wasn't even a conscious thing anymore..
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Feb 4, 2009, 8:36 PM)
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