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kenstin21
Feb 10, 2009, 11:19 PM
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hey guys ive been climbing for about 3 years and im going to start up on some trad climbing. one thing that has always been vague to me is on average how many pieces of pro do u put/ how many draws should i bring up on a climb. any advice is good but it would be awesome if you could give me info on the gunks. thanks a lot.
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tedman
Feb 10, 2009, 11:42 PM
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quickdraws? 0. maybe 1. Get shoulder length slings and convert all your quickdraws into traddraws. I generally carry 4-5 over the shoulder slings with 1 beaner on em (for cams) and then another 8-10 doubled trad draws for other pro/anchor shenanigans. Note that I dont climb at the gunks, but im fairly sure you'l get a similar response from them east coasters. Also 1-2 triple length are nice to have for slinging stuff or that pro that just needs the extra extension.
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andrewG
Feb 10, 2009, 11:45 PM
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It depends on the climb. I'd say minimum of 10 draws, mostly extendable. I don't often use all of them, but every once in a while I do. Better safe than sorry. I'd bring more if you are planning on building anchors with them.
How many pieces people place varies greatly between different climbers on the same climb, so any answer you get to that question will be meaningless.
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currupt4130
Feb 10, 2009, 11:46 PM
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It depends a lot on the route. I just carry all my draws as tripled shoulder slings on my harness. I tend to carry 8 or 9 if the route is a good long pitch. If it's a straight up crack or route that has good placements with little rope meandering, I may only carry a couple for passive pro and clip the cams straight. If there's a lot of passive gear I'll carry all my trad draws and maybe throw on two guickdraws for the anchors so I don't waste trad draws.
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brownie710
Feb 11, 2009, 12:19 AM
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having gone to school in New Paltz and learning part of my skills from gunkies I was always taught to never leave the ground with less than 10, with at least one double length, give our take a sling or two. That way you can build anchors as well as clip pieces
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qtm
Feb 11, 2009, 1:01 AM
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In addition to the length of the route and how many pieces you need to feel secure, you also have to think about protecting your second from swings.
With a solid second, you may only need one piece protecting a 20' traverse; with a beginner, you may want to put in four or five.
I carry as little as 8 on short routes or routes I've got wired. For longer routes, linking pitches, routes that wander all over the place, or when I need to protect two seconds on roofs or traverses, I carry a lot more, maybe 16 total.
On average I carry twelve, eight 2' and four 4'. Even if I know I'm only going to place six pieces, I've still got two over the shoulder, just a habit.
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yodadave
Feb 11, 2009, 1:57 AM
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I started leading with only 6 and felt like i had to run t out all the time.
Now i have 12 and i feel like thats more than enough for most stuff i do.
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milesenoell
Feb 11, 2009, 2:26 AM
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I carry 8, 6 quickdraws and 2 trad draws and have found myself wanting more.
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kmc
Feb 11, 2009, 4:57 AM
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Error on the side of caution, like others have said. I typically carry about 12 2-foot slings trick tripled, so that they are about the length of quickdraws. I climb mostly at the Gunks myself, and the climbing, and gear opportunities tend to wander a bit. Having plenty of extendable slings is great to keep your rope running nice and straight.
I sometimes carry less if climbing on granite or crack, where I could just clip a cam directly, but at the Gunks especially, you never get that straight of a line with your gear.
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suilenroc
Feb 11, 2009, 5:35 AM
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Totally depends on the climb. Most of these climbers gave you specific numbers, which is silly. Honestly, it depend! I always carry at least two for the shuts on a climb, thats if it has them. Other than that you should carry a plentiful amount of runners and biners. Quickdraws are nice for nuts, on occasion, other than that you are better off throwing a runner on a cam that already has a biner on it.
My philosophy is its better to have a potential longer fall than rope drag. Hence, put a runner on gear vs. a quickdraw. Figure it out on your own. The people on this site while teach you little compared to what you can learn on your own!
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evanwish
Feb 11, 2009, 6:09 AM
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2' slings- 10
3' slings- 2
and i even have a 5' one i use for anchors that i even occasionally have to use as a runner...
by occasionally i mean very rarely....
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mikebee
Feb 11, 2009, 7:53 AM
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I find climbing at Mt Arapiles in Australia that I generally carry 14 draws. 4 quick draws, 8 single length (2') and 2 double length (4'). If i was going to add more, I'd add more singles, and if I was going to reduce it, I'd leave a quickdraw or two at camp.
I use that combo of 14 as my standard setup, and when I know what the route looks like, I can make a decision as to if I need more or less draws. If you're running out of draws, then you can always clip the racking biner of your cams, and if you need more biners for the passive pro in the anchor, then you can use racking biners or a spare locker or two that might (should) be floating around on your harness.
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tradrenn
Feb 11, 2009, 10:45 AM
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kenstin21 wrote: hey guys ive been climbing for about 3 years and im going to start up on some trad climbing. one thing that has always been vague to me is on average how many pieces of pro do u put/ how many draws should i bring up on a climb. any advice is good but it would be awesome if you could give me info on the gunks. thanks a lot.
12 draws made of 2 foot slings, for gear suggestion do a search on Gunks rack.
Do Bunny, a very nice 5.4 G to get you started.
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donald949
Feb 11, 2009, 10:49 AM
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kenstin21 wrote: hey guys ive been climbing for about 3 years and im going to start up on some trad climbing. one thing that has always been vague to me is on average how many pieces of pro do u put/ how many draws should i bring up on a climb. any advice is good but it would be awesome if you could give me info on the gunks. thanks a lot.
Well, lots of slightly different thoughts on how many 2-4 foot trad runners. What they haven't said is why. Sport draws are shorter and stiffer. As a result they pull out on your gear more as you climb up and past your pro. The longer and softer trad runner won't pull out your stoppers so much, and reduce walking of your cams.
I like my hand tied 15 inch runners, I have about 10. I also carry several 2 footers.
So pull those biners off your draws, and clip them into some trad runners.
:D
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donald949
Feb 11, 2009, 10:53 AM
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tradrenn wrote: kenstin21 wrote: hey guys ive been climbing for about 3 years and im going to start up on some trad climbing. one thing that has always been vague to me is on average how many pieces of pro do u put/ how many draws should i bring up on a climb. any advice is good but it would be awesome if you could give me info on the gunks. thanks a lot. 12 draws made of 2 foot slings, for gear suggestion do a search on Gunks rack. Do Bunny, a very nice 5.4 G to get you started.  I'm planning a camping trip to JT this weekend, rain be damned.
[/Thread drift off]
Don
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tradrenn
Feb 11, 2009, 11:00 AM
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donald949 wrote: tradrenn wrote: kenstin21 wrote: hey guys ive been climbing for about 3 years and im going to start up on some trad climbing. one thing that has always been vague to me is on average how many pieces of pro do u put/ how many draws should i bring up on a climb. any advice is good but it would be awesome if you could give me info on the gunks. thanks a lot. 12 draws made of 2 foot slings, for gear suggestion do a search on Gunks rack. Do Bunny, a very nice 5.4 G to get you started. Hey V, what the heck you doing up at 2 in the AM? I'm working, haha. I'm planning a camping trip to JT this weekend, rain be damned. [/Thread drift off] Don
I know I read your posts in the West coast Partners forum, other than that I just got back from work (1am) and I'm looking into some partners for Red Rocks for 2 weeks in March and I ended up here.
Do you actually do any work at work ? 
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tradrenn
Feb 11, 2009, 11:04 AM
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donald949 wrote: What they haven't said is why.
Because routes at the Gunks wonder quite a bit, so extending your placements helps/is mandatory.
(This post was edited by tradrenn on Feb 11, 2009, 11:05 AM)
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granite_grrl
Feb 11, 2009, 12:29 PM
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People on here carry a lot of extendable runners! 
I don't think I've ever carried more than 8. At a place like the Gunks it'll depend what I'll carry up with me, but I'll usually take less than that 8 because of the other draws and slings I carry. A couple of double length runners are useful there because of how the routes wander and go over roofs. I love having a couple of short draws made up with revolvers. They really work wonders on the wandering routes at the Gunks. I also like to carry one or two screamers for fixed gear, but a lot of people think that's not required.
If I were the OP I'd start with getting maybe 6 shoulder length runners and maybe 2 double lengths. Get out on some easier stuff, battle the roep drag and learn what would make it better and adjust. Everyone carries a slightly different rack and draw setup.
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donald949
Feb 11, 2009, 12:53 PM
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tradrenn wrote: donald949 wrote: tradrenn wrote: kenstin21 wrote: hey guys ive been climbing for about 3 years and im going to start up on some trad climbing. one thing that has always been vague to me is on average how many pieces of pro do u put/ how many draws should i bring up on a climb. any advice is good but it would be awesome if you could give me info on the gunks. thanks a lot. 12 draws made of 2 foot slings, for gear suggestion do a search on Gunks rack. Do Bunny, a very nice 5.4 G to get you started. Hey V, what the heck you doing up at 2 in the AM? I'm working, haha. I'm planning a camping trip to JT this weekend, rain be damned. [/Thread drift off] Don I know I read your posts in the West coast Partners forum, other than that I just got back from work (1am) and I'm looking into some partners for Red Rocks for 2 weeks in March and I ended up here. Do you actually do any work at work ?
I do some work. Actually we are here in case they need bunch of paperwork pushed through the system, as was the case Sunday night. Monday evening they came by and thanked us all around. Tonight I spent a bunch of time pulling up and digging through our maint database program. And inputing the info into a Excel Spread Sheet. They need it by this morn, so they asked for it last evening. I guess it was good I was here. Otherwise it never by done by now. 
Anyrate, got to take a mental break while doing all that wadding and reading.
D
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johnwesely
Feb 11, 2009, 12:57 PM
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I carry 4 double length, 4 single length, and a few quickdraws for good mesure. the routes I climb tend to wander a lot.
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chezdillon
Feb 11, 2009, 1:11 PM
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As a general rule I carry 1 trad draw for every 10 feet of climbing on a pitch. 120 foot pitch = 12 draws. I then vary that number based on the climbing difficulty / availability of pro / route needs.
- Jeff
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hansundfritz
Feb 11, 2009, 4:42 PM
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I carry about 10-12 2 footers across the body and a few quickdraws on the harness -- maybe fewer for a short pitch. For multi-pitch, you need to plan ahead, obviously, and enough for the longest pitch.
Also carry at least 2 double-length slings under the regular slings -- for roofs, etc. In general, nothing worse than running out of runners.
I like the idea of the DMM Revolvers, by the way, but have not bought any yet.
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scotty1974
Feb 11, 2009, 6:54 PM
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I'd say I bring 10 of the 60cm Dynex BD runners, 2 of 120 cm Dynex runners, one Petzl St'Anneau Dyneema Sling 120 cm and 2 BD single 60 cm nylon runners. It's probably a tiny bit more than I need, but it's worked out well. I also use the quickdraws to build anchors, more often than my cordellette, so the extra draws really help in that respect. I also carry a single quickdraw to attach my pack to an anchor etc, or to use in a pinch.
As far a the pro placing, probably too much!! But it depends on what makes me feel safe, how long the pitch is (or how far I'll take the rope up), how much pro is available, or how hard the move is. The best advice I've been given is to protect the move.
(This post was edited by scotty1974 on Feb 11, 2009, 6:55 PM)
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mojomonkey
Feb 11, 2009, 7:00 PM
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johnwesely wrote: the routes I climb tend to wander a lot.
Note this. Lots of easy climbs at the gunks wander. I don't know about the harder ones, because I am still too scared to get on them. Better to err on the high side for slings/draws than get stuck with rope drag.
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jman
Feb 11, 2009, 7:13 PM
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chezdillon wrote: As a general rule I carry 1 trad draw for every 10 feet of climbing on a pitch. 120 foot pitch = 12 draws. I then vary that number based on the climbing difficulty / availability of pro / route needs. - Jeff
This is what i also do as a general rule of thumb. At the Gunks I usually carry 12 to 14 draws. How much gear to place is going to depend on your comfort level and judgement...you might feel sketched and place gear every couple of feet every chance you get or you might feel great and run it out.
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