|
kirkiboi
Apr 13, 2009, 10:25 PM
Post #1 of 56
(12128 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2008
Posts: 38
|
Has anyone tried/had any success with the supplement SuperCissus Rx. Its supposed to promote healthy tendon & Ligament growth. I have had tendon/ligament proplems for sometime now and as this weather continues to warm up I want to be ready for summer. I have found myself staring at the box but im a little skeptical about how effective supplements really are(especially when i see the price tags on some of them).
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
blondgecko
Moderator
Apr 13, 2009, 10:38 PM
Post #2 of 56
(12127 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 7666
|
I'd save my money if I were you. A Google Scholar search on the herb it's based on, Cissus Quadrangularis, yields some very old research looking into its use in improving bone healing, and some relatively recent research suggesting it may be useful as a weight-loss pill. The literature suggesting it may help in tendon or ligament repair is essentially nil.
In a more general sense, if something was investigated as a potential medicinal drug in the 60's and 70's (like this was for fracture healing), there are really only three possibilities today:
1. It's now part of mainstream medicine.
2. It didn't work.
3. It worked, but there were unacceptable side-effects.
|
|
|
|
|
rocknrock
Apr 14, 2009, 2:03 AM
Post #3 of 56
(12091 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2009
Posts: 34
|
kirkiboi wrote: Has anyone tried/had any success with the supplement SuperCissus Rx. Its supposed to promote healthy tendon & Ligament growth. I have had tendon/ligament proplems for sometime now and as this weather continues to warm up I want to be ready for summer. I have found myself staring at the box but im a little skeptical about how effective supplements really are(especially when i see the price tags on some of them). Thanks
I have a big time, body builder / health nut friend who I posed a similar question to. I've had problems with my fingers getting beat up, esp from gym climbing and bouldering.
He recommened this stuff
http://www.country-life.com/...9&Product_ID=300
And also to take MSM (google it).
Also said to take BCAAs immediately after workouts by themselves, regardless if I was getting BCAAs separate in something else.
So make up your own mind but something to consider.
I can say since I've been taking those three I think my fingers have been better, ymmv and you never know could be placebo effect, or just something that happens to work for me but wouldn't work for someone else necessarily etc.
This is something else you might consider
dit da jao, you can google around about it as well
http://www.mtntools.com/...er/bdog_liniment.htm
I started using it just recently can't really comment if I notice anything yet.
this is a good site if you don't know of it already
http://www.climbinginjuries.com/
(This post was edited by rocknrock on Apr 14, 2009, 2:05 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
captainstatic
Apr 14, 2009, 6:01 PM
Post #4 of 56
(12037 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2003
Posts: 203
|
I am a supplement rep and use a product that has MSM, Glucosamine, Chondroitin and Cetyl myristoleate as main ingredients. I have had problems in my middle and ring fingers on both hands. This is the first season in two years that I have not been dealing with some type of finger problem. In addition to supplementation I do preventative taping when bouldering or doing climbs with powerful, crimpy moves.
|
|
|
|
|
ryanb
Apr 14, 2009, 6:38 PM
Post #5 of 56
(12020 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2004
Posts: 832
|
I will occasionally take a Glucosamine and Chondroitin supplement when my fingers feel particularly beat up. I read a bunch of scientific papers on it when i first started but they all tested it with regards to arthritis (with mixed results.)
My TOTALLY UNSCIENTIFIC opinion is that it helps your finger joints stay hydrated (and thus lubricated) kind of like electrolytes for joints (drink a lot of water)...it seems to help with a bit of inflammation but not with recovery from serious damage.
It also give me gas so I only take it when i need it.
On a related note, I've heard a lot of people say taping for tendons doesn't work (you can't get the tape tight enough to make a difference and still have blood flow) and actually hinders the growth of supporting muscles.
|
|
|
|
|
roy_hinkley_jr
Apr 14, 2009, 6:51 PM
Post #6 of 56
(12010 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 8, 2005
Posts: 652
|
"Best Supplement" is pretty much an oxymoron. A better question is, "which placebo is the least injurious to my wallet." Glucosamine/chondroitin have nothing to do with tendons and ligaments. MSM doesn't do much of anything either. Most of the stuff sold is a heap of BS shoved into a pill.
Good place to start is Supplementwatch.com
|
|
|
|
|
captainstatic
Apr 14, 2009, 7:45 PM
Post #7 of 56
(11979 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2003
Posts: 203
|
I'm sorry, I should have clarified that my finger problems involved inflamation and swelling of the joints just above my knuckles. In the method I use for finger tapping I place one or two thin strips lengthwise on top of the finger over the joint and then tape around both above and below the joint. Also after each injury I took at least a month off from climbing and would alternately apply ice and heat to the affected joint.
|
|
|
|
|
onceahardman
Apr 15, 2009, 2:13 AM
Post #8 of 56
(11945 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2007
Posts: 2493
|
In reply to: my finger problems involved inflamation and swelling of the joints just above my knuckles.
Umm, I think I know what you mean, but joints ARE "knuckles" in layperson talk.
Better anatomical presicion can be very helpful in this format.
|
|
|
|
|
ja1484
Apr 15, 2009, 3:13 AM
Post #9 of 56
(11926 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 11, 2006
Posts: 1935
|
The hell with supplements. Eat, train, and rest. That's how nature does it, and you won't get (much) fucking cancer.
You do realize nutritional supplements are not FDA regulated? Not that FDA regulation means much anymore...
|
|
|
|
|
Grizvok
Apr 15, 2009, 5:41 AM
Post #10 of 56
(11903 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2008
Posts: 153
|
I take a multivitamin, fish oil, and use whey protein right after I workout.
A few times a year I will do a cycle of creatine for 4-6 weeks too.
|
|
|
|
|
Terry2124
May 4, 2009, 6:10 PM
Post #11 of 56
(11652 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 22, 2009
Posts: 223
|
Maybe a multivitamin, there are natural greens you can take if you don't eat enough vegies but that other stuff is crap.
|
|
|
|
|
seatbeltpants
May 8, 2009, 12:34 AM
Post #12 of 56
(11552 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 9, 2008
Posts: 581
|
Grizvok wrote: A few times a year I will do a cycle of creatine for 4-6 weeks too.
why? (just curious)
steve
|
|
|
|
|
angry
May 8, 2009, 12:57 AM
Post #13 of 56
(11545 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
My three supplements.
PBR, burritos, cookies.
Climb hard, rest well, and listen to your body. If a substance actually worked to improve your performance in any measurable way, rest assured that it would be banned by the IOC.
A quick google search comes up with drugs that do work. Of course they're illegal and have side effects. I'm not advocating drug cheating, in fact, I abhor it. I'm just saying that it's a joke to think some untested plant some shiny salesman at GNC is hawking will help. Of course the placebo is strong medicine.
|
|
|
|
|
Grizvok
May 8, 2009, 5:34 AM
Post #14 of 56
(11514 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2008
Posts: 153
|
seatbeltpants wrote: Grizvok wrote: A few times a year I will do a cycle of creatine for 4-6 weeks too. why? (just curious) steve
Why not? Creatine supplementation can and does benefit climbers.
Creatine uses the two step forward one step backward way of increasing performance. When you start using creatine your muscles become saturated with creatine giving them higher levels of phosphocreatine which allows your muscles to have higher levels of available ATP and therefore increasing your ability on the rock especially when it comes to anaerobic exercise.
However, when you cycle OFF of creatine you will lose the enhanced levels of ATP but by that time your muscles HAVE made neural and hypertrophy enhancements from the heightened level of climbing you were able to achieve. A win-win situation for us climbers. The only negative side effect of creatine related to climbing is the water weight you can and probably will gain. The stupid loading phases recommended on some labels are usually VERY inefficient and probably cause tons of extra and unnecessary water weight gain which is why I have modified my own "loading phase" to be much less extreme. Obviously, this water weight will be shed when you begin cycling off of creatine (which is recommended 4-6 weeks after supplementation).
Please note- creatine is not in any way, shape, or form a miracle supplement but nor is it a placebo. The science is solid, the double-blind studies are solid, and it does work.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 8, 2009, 6:29 AM
Post #15 of 56
(11497 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
Grizvok wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: Grizvok wrote: A few times a year I will do a cycle of creatine for 4-6 weeks too. why? (just curious) steve Why not? Creatine supplementation can and does benefit climbers.
You can't possibly know that factually.
In reply to: [rest of musclehead bullshit deleted]
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
Grizvok
May 8, 2009, 6:31 AM
Post #16 of 56
(11495 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2008
Posts: 153
|
jt512 wrote: Grizvok wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: Grizvok wrote: A few times a year I will do a cycle of creatine for 4-6 weeks too. why? (just curious) steve Why not? Creatine supplementation can and does benefit climbers. You can't possibly know that factually. In reply to: [rest of musclehead bullshit deleted] Jay
Good lord, you really are one of the worst posters on here aren't you? You provide no information and every single post seems to be you trying to come up with something funny in 2-3 lines that ultimately fails.
Have you tried using creatine?
No, well then shutup.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 8, 2009, 6:36 AM
Post #17 of 56
(11489 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
Grizvok wrote: jt512 wrote: Grizvok wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: Grizvok wrote: A few times a year I will do a cycle of creatine for 4-6 weeks too. why? (just curious) steve Why not? Creatine supplementation can and does benefit climbers. You can't possibly know that factually. In reply to: [rest of musclehead bullshit deleted] Jay Good lord, you really are one of the worst posters on here aren't you? You provide no information and every single post seems to be you trying to come up with something funny in 2-3 lines that ultimately fails. Have you tried using creatine?
Yes, Dipshit, I have.
In reply to: No, well then shutup.
Do you have any objective evidence to back up your made-up claim that creatine supplementation helps climbers? No? Well, then, "shutup."
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
blondgecko
Moderator
May 8, 2009, 6:47 AM
Post #18 of 56
(11483 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 7666
|
Grizvok wrote: The only negative side effect of creatine related to climbing is the water weight you can and probably will gain.
Well that and ruptured tendons due to muscles strengthening far faster than they can keep up.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 8, 2009, 6:50 AM
Post #19 of 56
(11482 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
blondgecko wrote: Grizvok wrote: The only negative side effect of creatine related to climbing is the water weight you can and probably will gain. Well that and ruptured tendons due to muscles strengthening far faster than they can keep up.
That and the weight gain.
Jay
P.S. I saw a Tesla on the freeway yesterday. Fucking sharp car. Unfortunately, I only got to look at it for a second, since I was passing it (ironically enough).
(This post was edited by jt512 on May 8, 2009, 6:50 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
blondgecko
Moderator
May 8, 2009, 6:53 AM
Post #20 of 56
(11476 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 7666
|
jt512 wrote: blondgecko wrote: Grizvok wrote: The only negative side effect of creatine related to climbing is the water weight you can and probably will gain. Well that and ruptured tendons due to muscles strengthening far faster than they can keep up. That and the weight gain. Jay P.S. I saw a Tesla on the freeway yesterday. Fucking sharp car. Unfortunately, I only got to look at it for a second, since I was passing it (ironically enough).
Sweet! I just wish they'd get their asses into gear and start making a more affordable production model. If they could get the price under $40-50k, I'd start saving today.
|
|
|
|
|
angry
May 8, 2009, 8:37 AM
Post #21 of 56
(11454 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
Gotta agree with Jay. Didn't do shit for me.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
May 8, 2009, 3:47 PM
Post #22 of 56
(11416 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
angry wrote: Gotta agree with Jay. Didn't do shit for me.
Well, I didn't say that it wouldn't help climbing. My point was that Grizvok's claim that it does can't be supported with valid evidence. I think it's well established that participants in certain strength sports can benefit from creatine supplementation. But in those sports body weight isn't crucial. In climbing, the benefit from creatine would have to be large enough to overcome the increase in body weight that creatine supplementation causes. Since creatine hasn't been tested in climbers (to the best of my knowledge), we don't know if that would be the case.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
curt
May 8, 2009, 3:57 PM
Post #23 of 56
(11406 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
A glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM supplement certainly seemed to help my more recent finger pulley injuries heal faster. I'm fully willing to admit the possibility of coincidence, but I would use it again in that circumstance.
Curt
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
May 8, 2009, 4:41 PM
Post #24 of 56
(11385 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
curt wrote: A glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM supplement certainly seemed to help my more recent finger pulley injuries heal faster.
Have an injury and don't take glucosamine et al. Measure how long it takes to heal.
After healing, have an injury that is absolutely 100% identical.
Take the glucosamine et al and maintain the identical diet, rest, exercise, sleep, hormone level, sunlight exposure, and about 100 other hard to control variables and then tell us that the supps helped you heal faster.
You'll also need to devise an adequate quantitative method of measuring "healing".
|
|
|
|
|
rtwilli4
May 8, 2009, 5:14 PM
Post #25 of 56
(11378 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867
|
Grizvok wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: Grizvok wrote: A few times a year I will do a cycle of creatine for 4-6 weeks too. why? (just curious) steve Why not? Creatine supplementation can and does benefit climbers. Creatine uses the two step forward one step backward way of increasing performance. When you start using creatine your muscles become saturated with creatine giving them higher levels of phosphocreatine which allows your muscles to have higher levels of available ATP and therefore increasing your ability on the rock especially when it comes to anaerobic exercise. However, when you cycle OFF of creatine you will lose the enhanced levels of ATP but by that time your muscles HAVE made neural and hypertrophy enhancements from the heightened level of climbing you were able to achieve. A win-win situation for us climbers. The only negative side effect of creatine related to climbing is the water weight you can and probably will gain. The stupid loading phases recommended on some labels are usually VERY inefficient and probably cause tons of extra and unnecessary water weight gain which is why I have modified my own "loading phase" to be much less extreme. Obviously, this water weight will be shed when you begin cycling off of creatine (which is recommended 4-6 weeks after supplementation). Please note- creatine is not in any way, shape, or form a miracle supplement but nor is it a placebo. The science is solid, the double-blind studies are solid, and it does work.
Wasn't that in a Rock and Ice recently?
I used to cycle creatine when I lifted a lot. It made me bigger, but not stronger. I think all it did was make me retain water.
I don't think a few cycles a year is bad for you... but I'm not sure that it really helps all that much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
