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dingus
Apr 28, 2009, 2:08 AM
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LS - a pre-rigged harness sling is very useful for multipitch raps. Whether you dedicate a daisy-like sling or recruit a normal runner as needed, same purpose is served.
I have Yates adj daisies but don't care for all that loopage for the most part, when free climbing.
Me and my regular partners? When we say "I'll bring the rack and some draws/slings? That DOES NOT include any personal slings/
What I mean is this... if you think you need a rap (or belay) sling, or maybe a locker or two? Don't expect to just grab an 'extra' sling off the rack... if your partners are like my partners the rep you earn doing this will come back atchya.
Totally not needed for sport climbing, imo.
DMT
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zealotnoob
Apr 28, 2009, 2:37 AM
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No, it's simple. When done climbing you make a deliberate switch to descending mode. You rack your gear out of the way, you ready your auto-block and rap device and you prep a sling or two with lockers for personal anchoring. You set it up the same way every time.
No need to clutter the harness while climbing.
On a side note, I'd be willing to bet there's a positive correlation between climbers who use daisies and climbers who carry hexes.
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bill413
Apr 28, 2009, 2:54 AM
Post #28 of 191
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zealotnoob wrote: No, it's simple. When done climbing you make a deliberate switch to descending mode. You rack your gear out of the way, you ready your auto-block and rap device and you prep a sling or two with lockers for personal anchoring. You set it up the same way every time. No need to clutter the harness while climbing. On a side note, I'd be willing to bet there's a positive correlation between climbers who use daisies and climbers who carry hexes.
Oh - I like the deliberate switch of modes. I think that's something I probably do without acknowledging it. Thanks!
Not sure about the daisy/hex correlation - I'll have to watch out for that.
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seatbeltpants
Apr 28, 2009, 3:00 AM
Post #29 of 191
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Myxomatosis wrote: I always use a daisy chain and always clip it into two places. I can build rope anchours and all that ka-ka but I just enjoy having the anchours and everyone I have taught, I always make them buy some also. I got one of these.... http://www.aspiring.co.nz/webbing2.htm#anchor NZ made with full strength loops and cant mess it up like the american ones. Its easy to adjust for height and length and if I need too, build topropes/anchours with them for all sorts of stuff.
i know quite a few people who use these and i reckon they look like a good piece of gear. i currently use a longish sewn sling with a few knots it to make it adjustable, girth hitch it to my belay loop, clip on a locking biner, and then hang it between my legs and clipped to my haul loop - keeps it out of the way, but dead easy to find. does the job well, never in the way, can be recruited as an additional sling if required, and damn quick if and when it's needed.
i think everyone's covered the uses something like for this already. i use it a lot and wouldn't want to be without, but ymmv...
steve
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happiegrrrl
Apr 28, 2009, 3:02 AM
Post #30 of 191
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I use the PAS, and take it off my harness every once in a while to check for wear.
I use it if I have to prussik, in lieu of a sling. Some people have those long prussik cords; mine are short. I use a 2 footer attached to one for the foot, and my PAS attached to the upper one. When one has to prussik, one is happy to have the components readily at hand(at least that's been my experience).
Was just wondering if maybe I didn't need that PAS just yesterday. Most people I know just use a sling. Yes, the PAS is a bit bulky, compared to grabbing a sling, but I prefer it. It's there, ready and willing, and I use it, as mentioned above, for an initial tie in point at the anchor, and as a secondary point to the rope as anchor. And, if you're ever on a rope-stretcher pitch, you don't have to worry about finding enough slack to clove and get clipped into. Not that I've ever done a full-rope pitch, but they're out there, waiting patiently.....
Also, the PAS is quicker than getting a sling off the harness. It has full strength loops(as opposed to the daisy chain). It has the options of length, and is easy to check for wear(compared to a long runner tied with a few knots), and it has a dedicated locking biner attached. Locking biner is good, when you feel worked by a pitch and it's blazing hot and you're dehydrated.
But, to each their own.
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bill413
Apr 28, 2009, 3:06 AM
Post #31 of 191
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seatbeltpants wrote: then hang it between my legs and clipped to my haul loop - keeps it out of the way, but dead easy to find. does the job well, never in the way, can be recruited as an additional sling if required, and damn quick if and when it's needed.
- Hangs between my legs
- Not in the way
- dead easy to find
- does the job well
- damn quick when it's needed
Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling."
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zealotnoob
Apr 28, 2009, 3:11 AM
Post #32 of 191
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I once heard of an alpine technique where you take your daisy, which is attached to your belay loop, run it over one shoulder and clip it to itself with a locker under the other arm. Then you can clip gear to it as a gear sling. When you're done leading you unclip the locker and attach to your anchor. When the second comes up the gear is easily accessible for sorting, etc. Anyone ever do this?
Seems like it'd only be worthwhile if you had a very small alpine rack.
(This post was edited by zealotnoob on Apr 28, 2009, 3:14 AM)
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Myxomatosis
Apr 28, 2009, 3:28 AM
Post #33 of 191
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bill413 wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: then hang it between my legs and clipped to my haul loop - keeps it out of the way, but dead easy to find. does the job well, never in the way, can be recruited as an additional sling if required, and damn quick if and when it's needed. Well, I can understand: - Hangs between my legs - Not in the way - dead easy to find - does the job well - damn quick when it's needed Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling."
I usually refer it to the bail out top rope system. It comes in real handy when ya damn gf is real keen to lead it.. then chickens out and when your about to rappel down (last minute of course)
"Can you put a top rope on it for me please?"
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no_email_entered
Apr 28, 2009, 3:36 AM
Post #34 of 191
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zealotnoob wrote: No, it's simple. When done climbing you make a deliberate switch to descending mode.
isn't that called 'fallling'?
(This post was edited by no_email_entered on Apr 28, 2009, 3:36 AM)
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uni_jim
Apr 28, 2009, 3:38 AM
Post #35 of 191
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i will climb with a daisy chain girthed to the tie in points of my harness. I use it when threading anchors while sport climbing, and as a temporary connection when setting up anchors on multipitch. Once the anchor is built though, and before i am off belay, i will tie in with the rope.
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Lazlo
Apr 28, 2009, 3:43 AM
Post #36 of 191
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no_email_entered wrote: zealotnoob wrote: No, it's simple. When done climbing you make a deliberate switch to descending mode. isn't that called 'fallling'?
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seatbeltpants
Apr 28, 2009, 3:44 AM
Post #37 of 191
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bill413 wrote: Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling."
what i mean is that because it is just a sling (not like myximatsomething's chain of smaller loops, frinstance) you can ungirthhitch it and put it to use to sling a horn or whatever, if required.
steve
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Myxomatosis
Apr 28, 2009, 3:49 AM
Post #38 of 191
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seatbeltpants wrote: bill413 wrote: Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling." what i mean is that because it is just a sling (not like myximatsomething's chain of smaller loops, frinstance) you can ungirthhitch it and put it to use to sling a horn or whatever, if required. steve
Or thread it over naked head bolts.... 
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ryanb
Apr 28, 2009, 3:53 AM
Post #39 of 191
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What is important is that you and your partners have a system worked out and learn to be efficient quick and above all safe.
Most people I know who climbs outside regularly keep some form of tether on their harness (and none of us use hexes ;) ).
I use a big burly bright yellow metolius double length plain nylon sling with a couple of knots in it girth hitched to the tie in point. I like that it is impossible to mistake any of them for another piece of gear and that it loosen and moves around every time i take my harness off (to prevent the todd skinner scenario).
I think that I am forced to untie from the rope an average of once every 2-3 pitches (either to thread the rap anchor while cleaning or swap ends of the rope at a belay). Having a dedicated burly, easily identifiable bit of gear keeps this process simple, quick and safe.
YMMV
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dlintz
Apr 28, 2009, 3:56 AM
Post #40 of 191
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I have no use for daisy chains as I don't aid climb.
For sport (single or multipitch) I use runner(s).
For trad I still bring my PAS but I don't always use it, often preferring to just use the rope.
d.
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brawa
Apr 28, 2009, 3:56 AM
Post #41 of 191
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I use the Bluewater TLC and really like it. I watched the video but don't get what the Sterling does that the other PAS can't.
I love having the TLC to just grab at the top of the pitch, eye the end red loop, and clip to an anchor before having to worry about anything else. For the record, I climb mostly single pitch/bolt anchor. I always back it up with another sling or the rope, but I like having one bomber, adjustable, always ready personal anchor (I do also realize that lots of people refer to something with the aforementioned qualities as "the rope").
Maybe as I climb more multipitch trad my views will change, but I don't think so. The TLC packs up so small on the harness and is great at anchors and raps. This is the first I've heard of the purcell prussic--I'll have to check that out.
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seatbeltpants
Apr 28, 2009, 4:00 AM
Post #42 of 191
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Myxomatosis wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: bill413 wrote: Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling." what i mean is that because it is just a sling (not like myximatsomething's chain of smaller loops, frinstance) you can ungirthhitch it and put it to use to sling a horn or whatever, if required. steve Or thread it over naked head bolts....
here in wellington we have these things called "hangers" - apparently you guys don't have these, but have "balls" 
steve
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Myxomatosis
Apr 28, 2009, 4:08 AM
Post #43 of 191
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seatbeltpants wrote: Myxomatosis wrote: seatbeltpants wrote: bill413 wrote: Just wondering about "can be recruited as an additional sling." what i mean is that because it is just a sling (not like myximatsomething's chain of smaller loops, frinstance) you can ungirthhitch it and put it to use to sling a horn or whatever, if required. steve Or thread it over naked head bolts.... here in wellington we have these things called "hangers" - apparently you guys don't have these, but have "balls" steve
Hahaha I heard down in Wellington you can pull rock off to make hard routes easier... apparently its frown upon down your ways  
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vegastradguy
Apr 28, 2009, 4:10 AM
Post #44 of 191
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i'm surprised no one has brought up spectra's tendency to fail under factor 2 loads in this thread. The PAS doesnt hold up under a static fall scenario due to its spectra construction. After reading and talking with rope manufacturers about this, i'm firmly in the use the rope or a nylon sling camp when it comes to personal tethers.
most of the time, i use the rope for anchoring and will use a sling off the rack for any rappels.
if, however, the descent involves a ton of rappelling or if the route has bolted anchors, i'll bring my chain reactor- i really like it for that sort of work. however, i never keep it on my harness- i always take it off at the end of the day. dont know why, but i never was a fan of leaving stuff attached to my harness- i prefer to reattach everything at the base of each climb- ensures that i always inspect my gear before use, i suppose.
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seatbeltpants
Apr 28, 2009, 4:23 AM
Post #45 of 191
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vegastradguy wrote: i'm surprised no one has brought up spectra's tendency to fail under factor 2 loads in this thread. The PAS doesnt hold up under a static fall scenario due to its spectra construction. After reading and talking with rope manufacturers about this, i'm firmly in the use the rope or a nylon sling camp when it comes to personal tethers.
good point, this, and although my sling isn't spectra i'm always conscious of any potential to take any kind of fall onto it. does anyone make a dynamic tie in system? or could you just rig something from a length of rope - just use dynamic rope instead of a sling? any reason to not do this?
steve
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potreroed
Apr 28, 2009, 4:27 AM
Post #47 of 191
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To answer the OP: I ALWAYS have a PAS or Purcell prussic girth-hitched to my harness; feel nekked without it.
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quiteatingmysteak
Apr 28, 2009, 5:30 AM
Post #49 of 191
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I throw on a PAS for multipitch routes, its a bit faster than using the rope, I don't have to fuss with anything if I'm leading in blocks, and I can use it to build an anchor on rap stations without having to mess with the rope and all that junk.
Just easier and faster. Don't let your doughnuts wear down to stubs and you won't be another Skinner.
'daisy chains' are for aid climbing, and easy to clip into incorrectly and kill self. Also, don't clip your daisy or PAS in between your legs like a G string. C'mon man. What if your parents saw you do that?
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no_email_entered
Apr 28, 2009, 6:03 AM
Post #50 of 191
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vegastradguy wrote: i'm surprised no one has brought up spectra's tendency to fail under factor 2 loads in this thread. The PAS doesnt hold up under a static fall scenario due to its spectra construction.
with all due respect, how in the hell are you going to manage a ff2 fall clipped to your anchor with a PAS---
---[and there won't be a grading curve---this will be strictly pass/fail]
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