As I understand it the PAS issue is with the webbing-on-webbing connections which do not exist in a typical belay anchor.

d. Spectra PAS---breaks in factor-2 fall.

...

The one thing I think one shouldn't do with tethers is to use them as a load-bearing attachment to the anchor for the belayer. If a load is going to come on the belayer, that load ought to be transmitted to the anchor by a dynamic rope connection, not by a static sling, which could result in considerably higher anchor loads. Putting aside the never-ending arguments about worst-case scenarios and what loads are or are not realistic, what sense does it make to use a high-impact connection when a perfectly good lower-impact connection is readily available?

So what about anchors that are built from a static sling? If a PAS (or other static tether) can't take a factor 2 fall, then what's to say that the piece of sling that the tether is clipped to won't fail also... or first for that matter?

As I understand it the PAS issue is with the webbing-on-webbing connections which do not exist in a typical belay anchor.

The difference has to to with what part of the system is absorbing fall energy. In the case of static slings on an anchor, a factor two fall is absorbed by rope stretch and the maximum load is then transmitted to the sling, which can easily take it. In the case of a factor-2 fall on a PAS, the PAS has to absorb the fall energy, which is more than spectra can do in the factor 2 situation.

The maker of the PAS did research on the webbing-to-webbing loop. I do not believe that it is the "internal" construction of the PAS that is the issue - rather the shock absorbtion of the system and how the PAS is attached at the ends.

So in a factor-2 fall situation where a climber is tethered with a PAS directly to an anchor built with a spectra sling, aren't both the sling and PAS subjected to the same force?

Ok, I see. I wasn't privy to the fact that the PAS failed because of webbing to webbing contact, <snip>

So basically, set up the system so that the most amount of force is absorbed before getting to the anchor, and in practice spectra slings are still legit to use to build an anchor.

Obviously avoided factor 2 situations is a must, but using a primary tether that can absorb fall force helps to reduce the ultimate force on the anchor is a good (or necessary) practice.

For what it may add to the discussion: Daisies do get fallen on regularly without breaking. It happens in aid climbing, and not in rare instances. I would guess past instances number in the hundreds for Spectra and Dyneema; typically a 3-4 foot fall onto a single piece with no runner or draw. I'm trying to recall any account of such a daisy having failed in that situation, and I can't think of one. Not to refute what has been stated regarding the behavior of Spectra, etc. above.

it's good except for situations when your rope is weighted or kinked pretty bad. I had a similar situation that rgold describes, so I had to clip in with a sling girth-hitched from my belay loop, unweight the rope, put a piece in closer to the problem area, clip in with a clove hitch and get out the pickle... In retrospect, it would've helped very much if I had a sling already girth-hitched to my belay loop.

e. Sterling Chain Reactor (or other NYLON equivalent). In my opinion, the best choice. If the chain reactor wasn't available, I suppose one might argue that a factor-2 daisy fall is unlikely. But given two more-or-less identical systems, one of which breaks in certain climbing scenarios and one of which doesn't, I can't see any argument for using the breakable one.

I don't feel like reading all 7 pages of this either, but I don't think the issue of falling on a daisy is about the daisy breaking, rather shock loading the anchor.

IRATA did a bunch of testing on pre-sewn slings specifically for attaching a climber to the anchor, as well as knotted/sewn, and just knotted cow tails using dynamic rope and determined that a fall of less than one meter on static sling can create a shock load above 15 kN. They went on to conclude that Cow's Tails made from dynamic rope and knots at both ends achieve the best results for dynamic shock absorption, and now recommend them as the preferred method for personal anchor systems.

I don't own a DC - always thought it was an aid-climbing gear. I don't have any pre-manufactured PAS, like someone else said I'd rather spend my money on something else. This set up seems pretty simple and uses a nylon sling (see Rappeling part)

Both ways , rope vs PAS, have their advantages and disadvantages.
Try both ways and make up your own mind.

Instead of a daisy use a PAS.
I use a PAS and when climbing I pass it between my legs and clip it to the rear loop.

http://www.rei.com/product/722384

There only two type of daisy that are the safest in event of a belayer fall on anchor;

The old school daisy made of 1 inch webbing and the purcell prusik. That is it. All others may fail .The adjustable daisy with jaws of death are among the worse right next to skinny spectra type.

There only two type of daisy that are the safest in event of a belayer fall on anchor;

The old school daisy made of 1 inch webbing and the purcell prusik. That is it. All others may fail .The adjustable daisy with jaws of death are among the worse right next to skinny spectra type.