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AltitudeJunkie
May 19, 2009, 10:38 PM
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So, I've hike the approach and i'm at the crag. I set my pack down and take out my gear. i put my harness on, i put my shoes on. I grab a quick bite to eat as my partner gets ready to climb. somehow 8 minutes has passed.
I feel like i could be more efficient. I feel like it should only take me 5 minutes to get ready to climb, but somehow it still takes me between 5-10 minutes. I think it has something to do with efficiency.
the things ive thought of so far are:
-if im going to be sport climbing, leave my draws on my harness so when i take my harness out all the draws are all ready to go. (but all the weight makes my harness difficult to fit properly.)
-eat in the car and on the approach.
- put my climbing shoes on even if im going to be belaying first, so then i don't have to dink around switching my shoes before i climb. (if im belaying first i usually don't change till its my turn to climb).
anyone else have any ideas? maybe the way i organize my gear or load my pack? Would a different harness maybe help with the weight vs. fitting issue?
thanks!!
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dingus
May 19, 2009, 10:42 PM
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Just quit fucking around eh?
My experience is that partners are the biggest time sink in climbing. Once you have a similarly paced partner all this just takes care of itself.
From a styart-of-climb efficiency standpoint each partner should know exactly which commuinity task needs to get done and who should be doing it and that person should do it presto quicko without any prompting from the other partner.
For example, in my little world, belayer flakes out the rope, unless there is a compelling reason for the leader to do it.
its not like we have an elaborate 'and you do this and I'll do that' conversation. Its just the habit of efficiency breeds a volunteer spirit.
DMT
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shockabuku
May 19, 2009, 10:43 PM
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My idea would be to relax a little about it and focus more on the fact that you're enjoying yourself.
However, if you are time constrained in achieving certain goals, what worked well for me to speed up everything I did, was to have a seemingly angry drill sergeant standing by to constantly harass, and not so subtly threaten, me until I got faster at it.
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grampacharlie
May 19, 2009, 11:05 PM
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I've noticed this too, sometimes I've had my harness on, rope stacked, shoes on, gear racked, tied in and literally been ready to go when my partner says "just lemme finish my (fill in the blank of whatever the hell it is that they are eating) and I'll get my harness on." eat before you leave the house, or in the car on the way there, that way you have already digested a bit and you'll have that energy in your system as you climb.
For myself, I'm pretty organized with my gear. I pay attention when I pack my bag so I know where things are. I don't always pack the same, but I do know where stuff is in it.
Carabiners on my rack/sling full of draws are all facing the same direction: eaiser to count and keep track of, and easier handling when you don't have to think about which carabiner goes to which draw.
Rope is always put away in the same manner, so I know what i need to do to get it ready.
I'm boarderline anal retentive, but mostly I'd call it consistency.
My belay device is always on the same gear loop of my harness, blah blah blah...
Little things add up to really save time.
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rockandlice
May 19, 2009, 11:15 PM
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shockabuku wrote: My idea would be to relax a little about it and focus more on the fact that you're enjoying yourself.
Agreed, if 3 minutes is a glaring issue to you, you may want to take a step back and look at the big picture. Unless of course you are going for a new speed record in YoVa.
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jakedatc
May 19, 2009, 11:23 PM
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^^^ i'm similar. It also helps me prevent forgetting things.. either at home, car or at a wall.
rope is always flaked in the rope bag so i havent reflaked my own rope in a long time.
draws are on a loop of 6mm cord with my few long draws at one of the ends. so i grab normal draws off one side and if i need a shoulder length then i can get it easily while racking up.
draws on, i tie in, then put my shoes on. then my gf puts me on belay while i'm tying my shoes.
trad gear goes on a gear sling so that all stays together.. makes changing leads easier.
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hafilax
May 19, 2009, 11:38 PM
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It's not that to put on a loaded harness.
I don't think it's a great idea to eat right before climbing anyway.
I need to relax before a climb in order to do my best so 3 minutes would be a small price to pay for an onsite or a red point.
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meahtots
May 19, 2009, 11:44 PM
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I'm not anal retentive, but slow partners bug me. I can hike the approach, get harness/ gear/ shoes on, get rope set up and tie in by the time my regular partner even reaches the base. I'm not even that fast, but this guy is the king of taking his precious time.
annoying as hell
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dingus
May 19, 2009, 11:55 PM
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meahtots wrote: I'm not anal retentive, but slow partners bug me. I can hike the approach, get harness/ gear/ shoes on, get rope set up and tie in by the time my regular partner even reaches the base. I'm not even that fast, but this guy is the king of taking his precious time. annoying as hell
Get a new partner or get over it. A tiger can't change her stripes.
DMT
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codefrog
May 19, 2009, 11:56 PM
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Routine, routine, routine. In the military the same thing is done over and over again and by repetition two things happen. You get faster *and* you discover faster ways to do things. You really should enjoy things more and let your natural progression as a climber handle the details. You are going to lose 8 minutes and more doing just about everything.
Every night I get home from climbing I check my gear. I inspect my ATC for rough egdes. I check by biners and put them on the right gear loop. I check the chalk level in my bag. Then I inspect all the rest. I carefully stow it in a drop bag in reverse order. Shoes are on the top, then harness, then chalk, then rope, etc... My bag when properly kitted always arranges in a compact tight way and I can rehearse each piece that goes in mentally. By doing this over and over I form safer habits, get stuff better organized and in my opinion become safer every time I go out. By constantly looking at my gear when it's new/fresh I'll be better able to spot weakened/stressed gear later.
All seriousness ends here:
Me personally. I went to one of those x-rated stores and bought a blow up doll. I put all my gear on Debbie Does Slab and get it set just the way I want it. I carry Debbie up to the rock and then I deflate Debbie and as she deflates I just step into the space and voila I'm in my gear.
Debbie is nice and compact and I put her away until I need her again. She even keeps me company on those long belays...
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clc
May 19, 2009, 11:58 PM
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dude, if your just talking about sport climbing. why care if it takes a few more minutes. Your in a safe place and time really doesn't matter.
Now if your are climbing something long and/or serious where time matters, either move faster or wake up 3 minutes earlier. really 3 minutes is trivial in a long 12-18 hour day (700-1000 minutes) just climb a little faster.
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seatbeltpants
May 20, 2009, 12:08 AM
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meahtots wrote: I'm not anal retentive, but slow partners bug me. I can hike the approach, get harness/ gear/ shoes on, get rope set up and tie in by the time my regular partner even reaches the base. I'm not even that fast, but this guy is the king of taking his precious time. annoying as hell
i can sympathise - some of the guys i've climbed with piss around something chronic. when i've managed to get sorted, racked up, and are standing there ready to go and my partner is still farking around scratching his arse or playing with his cell phone, i can get a little tetchy.
i generally have to drive a fair distance to climb decent rock, so once i get there i want to climb until i can't climb any more - not stand around chatting with someone about whether his new shoes are any good or not. especially if my partner is standing there ready to go. piss around on the down time, not during the few measly hours we have to climb in.
best solution - practice a bit, don't sweat a few minutes, but get a new partner if he takes half an hour to flake a rope and get you on belay.
steve
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spikeddem
May 20, 2009, 12:27 AM
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I accidentally my efficiency!!! THE WHOLE THING!!!!!
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bill413
May 20, 2009, 1:26 AM
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A number of good points have already been made.
My regular partners & I split - while the leader is getting set up, checking rack for tangles, etc., the belayer flakes the rope.
Shoes - some folks shoes are so tight they don't want to put them on until right before climbing - that's fine. If I'm seconding, I'll leave shoes off until my leader is anchored, then put them on while they pull up the rope (multipitch). Or, after lowering them to the ground (single pitch), I'll shoe up while they untie.
One of the keys to efficiency is each of you being busy...not one busy...wait while other one is busy...wait while first is busy...etc. If both folks are doing stuff, it goes faster.
Oh, and eating. That's what belays are for. Or, hikes to the next climb.
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rtwilli4
May 20, 2009, 3:18 AM
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what the fuck dude? relax and have some fun. 5-10 minutes? it takes me that long just to get my shoes on!
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bill413
May 20, 2009, 3:48 AM
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rtwilli4 wrote: 5-10 minutes? it takes me that long just to get my shoes on!
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meahtots
May 20, 2009, 3:57 AM
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dingus wrote: Get a new partner or get over it. A tiger can't change her stripes. DMT
Word. I was being a little hypercritical.
If it was really that big of a deal, I would say something, but its not. He can be a cool dude, and I am willing to take the time.
However, it would be nice if he speed it up, if only a little bit...
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dingus
May 20, 2009, 1:57 PM
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meahtots wrote: dingus wrote: Get a new partner or get over it. A tiger can't change her stripes. DMT Word. I was being a little hypercritical. If it was really that big of a deal, I would say something, but its not. He can be a cool dude, and I am willing to take the time. However, it would be nice if he speed it up, if only a little bit...
My buddy Burl moves to the beat of a different drummer. Slow in mornings, IRON MAN late in the day... he is the anchor leg man.
I had to learn over the years, to tune myself as much as I could to his ways as he tried to do mine. It worked well. I was always the early to mid day motivator. Bout the time I started fading was when Burl just started hitting his stride.
It actually worked out well and I think we both grew some in the tolerance threshold. I learned to be a little more relaxed when facing The Massive... he learned to be a little more energetic breaking camp and what have you.
We did a hundred or more good climbs together so I reckon we did OK.
DMT
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fresh
May 20, 2009, 2:28 PM
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to maximize efficiency, find what you're spending time on that you don't need to spend time on.
rule #1: what you choose to do is more important than how fast you do it.
really, it's not about efficiency. it's about effectiveness.
do you really need to eat right before you climb? did you organize your gear the night before? have you decided what routes to climb, and second, third, or fourth choices if those routes are wet/occupied? do you have any superstitious rituals that really aren't necessary?
I find most of my time is wasted:
1. looking for routes when the ones I wanted to climb are unclimable
2. choosing and organizing gear for a particular route
3. deciding whether to bring the pack, to wear a jacket, etc.
obviously indecision is probably my biggest problem. at a certain point you just have to go with it. momentum is critical.
also, you should establish with your partner whether it's a hang out & climb day or a get-shit-done day. aim for a balance of both types of days, but don't mix them. and have fun!
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builttospill
May 20, 2009, 5:06 PM
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I'm a bit anal about my time too, for some reason. I wish I could relax a bit more, and sometimes I do, but mostly I don't climb often enough so I want to get a lot out of it when I get out.
That said, my current main partner and I are pretty well aligned. We mostly climb multipitch stuff that is easy enough we can basically run on it.
As others have said.....get to the base, leader racks up, belayer flakes the rope. Both put harnesses on. Both put shoes on (shoes are comfy). If he's leading, when he shouts off belay, I usually start climbing, unless the climbing off the deck is hard. Lots of climbs start off scrambly, so I'll cruise up to the first hard part or the first piece of gear, clean it, and usually by then he's got me on and the rope is coming tight.
At the belay, the transition is quick. "Nice lead" (usually). He ties me off real quick. We both participate in re-racking, unless the rope needs to be back-stacked for some reason. "Got everything?" "Yeah, you got me?" "Yeah" Alright, we're off.
If it's a middle pitch and I'm belaying, once he calls off belay I might not start climbing. Most of our climbs have ledges for belays. I'll usually break down the anchor while he pulls up the rope. What do I need it for? I'm standing on a damn ledge. Rope is tight and I'm moving immediately.
This really isn't important for sport climbing, or even single pitch cragging at all. Not even "important" for multipitch stuff, but its habit now. For alpine routes we do together, it's handy though.
That said, he has commented before about previous partners.....usually with something like "the biggest thing that my previous partners taught me was patience." I could probably use a bit of that.
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builttospill
May 20, 2009, 5:09 PM
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By the way, we don't eat. Unless you're climbing all day. If you're out for 4 hours, do you really need to eat? I mean, if you're hypoglycemic, I'll give you a break. But otherwise you should be able to go a few hours without a full meal. Eat in the car. I also don't tend to even drink a lot, except at the top of the climb or back at the packs before moving to the next climb.
We don't fiddle with clothes either. Maybe it's just mild enough where we're at, but I'm not shedding layers, putting layers on, etc at the base. Rarely mid-climb, but you never know. Ice climbing is a bit of a different story though.
If all you're doing at the base is putting shoes, and harness on and flaking the rope/racking, it'll go quick. If you do nothing at belays, it'll be quick too. As someone else said, it's the things you choose not to do at all that will save you time. (see fresh's rule #1--nice).
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rainman0915
May 20, 2009, 5:38 PM
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i fail to see what that 3 extra min would get you. besides stressed out
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AltitudeJunkie
May 20, 2009, 5:49 PM
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this is awesome and SO HELPFUL! thanks!!!
i usually have to have a real quick snack before i climb, i think if i had a big breakfast and a clif bar or two i'd be set for about half the day. i have a ridiculous metabolism and i burn through food soo fast. i could have a huge breakfast, do an approach and need more food to climb. eating before climbing really is necessary for me depending on what ive eaten previously that day.
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