well if he's 5 feet from the ledge, I'd assume you can get to him. if he's at the end of the ropes, probably not. where do you think the line should be drawn?

I'm indeed a gumby, no need to point that out. please, let's keep the attacks to a minimum and stick to rational discussion. even gumbies can be right.

I was taught what I know in a self rescue course with mark synnott. what he told us is that if your partner is hanging unconcious, it's possible that they will die in 3-5 minutes. what course of action do you think is best given that information? honestly, my opinion is by no means set in stone. I really would like to know the best thing to do, but more importantly I'd like to know why.

as it stands, I'm under the impression that the chance that the airway is blocked is considerable. if it's not a considerable chance, then by all means I agree with desertwanderer. if you have time, take your time. no need to have two icy corpses littering a route.

the 3-5 minute range is what synnott taught us, and a quick search shows that he was right:

http://wiki.answers.com/...rvive_without_oxygen

edit: by the way, if I've applied what I've learned incorrectly, that's my fault, not mark's. don't mean to blame him for that.

Use a NZ Prussik knot...

Why do I bring this up? B/c it is just one more piece of evidence that points to: SLOW DOWN. There is NEVER a reason to rush. Move quickly and efficiently? OF COURSE. Do unsafe/stupid things? NOPE. Ask Majid, or anybody else who risks their safety to rescue others- they would much prefer to assist you out than go in and have to recover TWO bodies b/c the one partner still alive was an idiot.

we have more time than we are normally taught to get to a person and get oxygen flowing through their vessels

This right here. If anyone is to leave this thread with ANYTHING, it's this. It is a very important lesson that everyone needs to know.

*****honestly, i still don't think you get it. the most efficient way down is NOT the safest, there are MANY corners that can be cut, etc. some have even advocated enough. YES- don't dally. NO- don't rush.*****

thinking about it, I wondering if this whole discussion is moot. the most efficient way of moving down the rope will probably also be the safest.

the only input that I hope sticks with people is that it's possible your partner is suffocating in this situation--not a reason to cut corners (what corners are there to cut anyway?). but it might give you an extra kick in the pants to get moving.

This is a pretty tough situation. As has already been pretty well covered here, if the rope is running over a slab or large roof (and you don't happen to have another rope handy), you're pretty well boned, as there is no way you're going to descend a loaded rope running over the rock. But let's assume that we're fortunate today, the rope is running free from the anchor to the fallen climber, and we're able to descend safely with twin prussiks. Here's what I would do then:

1. Descend until your prussiks are a foot or so above the fallen climber's belay / rappel device.

2. Tie both yourself and the fallen climber in short with fig-8s or butterflys with the free rope hanging below, leaving a good few feet of slack. There are probably a couple ways of doing this, but the easiest may be just tying one climber in short to each of the lines (i.e. counterweight the line). This will act as backup if anything goes wrong while doing the rest of the rigging.

3. Use a long cordalette and HMS biner (that you hopefully didn't decide to leave on the ground) to construct a PMMO hitch on the lines above the prussiks you used to descend. The biner side of the PMMO is clipped to your belay loop but not weighted yet.

4. Girth hitch a sling to the fallen climber's belay loop, and clip it into the PMMO HMS biner, shortening with knots as necessary so that there isn't more than a few inches of slack.

5. Before weighting the PMMO, rig your belay / descender to both your belay loop and the sling connecting the fallen climber to the PMMO (of course, you can't thread the rope yet, as it is still weighted, but you want the belay device carabiner clipped through both your belay loop and the fallen climber's sling, as it would be difficult to rig once the sling is weighted).

6. Gently apply your weight to the PMMO hitch by sliding your descending prussiks down (which should only take an inch or so if the PMMO is properly rigged).

7. Gently apply the fallen climber's weight to the PMMO by sliding him down the rope a few inches (which may not be hard if his third hand is rigged below his device. If rigged above it, you may need to cut the cord in order to unweight it). You should now both be hanging from the PMMO hitch, you attached by your belay loop, and the fallen climber by the sling running from his belay loop. You are now both dependent on a single prussik knot, hence the tying in short in step 2.

8. Now that both climbers' weight is held by the PMMO, you can remove your descending prussiks from the line. Your belay device should already be clipped into both your belay loop and the sling from the fallen climber's belay loop (step 5). Now that the line below the PMMO is unweighted, you can rig your belay device onto the line (including a third hand prussik backup).

9. Remove the fallen climber's belay device and third hand backup from the line. Now you should be ready to use the PMMO to gently lower both of you on to your belay device, making sure your third hand backup engages properly.

10. Remove the (now unweighted) PMMO from the line, do anything else needed to prepare for descent (rigging a chest harness for the fallen climber, etc), and finally remove the backup short tie ins from both yourself and the fallen climber.

11. Rappel.

Sounds like it should work to me. Any thoughts?

3. Use a long cordalette and HMS biner (that you hopefully didn't decide to leave on the ground) to construct a PMMO hitch on the lines above the prussiks you used to descend. The biner side of the PMMO is clipped to your belay loop but not weighted yet.

No doubt I'm having a senior moment, but what the heck is a PMMO Hitch?

Well the OP said the victim had slid to the end of the rope that had knots tied in it. If the victim is dangling out in space, I would say your best bet is calling 911. Otherwise, if the victim is up against the wall where you can build an anchor, then here is the simplier approach: once you have made it down to the victim (quickly and easily on your Cinch ) you build an anchor and clip in, attach the victim to your harness, and cut the rope right above the victim's belay device (or the victim's backup if that is what he is hanging from), pull the rope and start rapping down...

Prussik Munter Mule Overhand, which is a load releasing hitch. Also, not to sound like the safety nanny, but IMHO no one has any business climbing anything but plastic unless they know how to tie one of these forwards and backwards (and in the dark with frozen hands probably doesn't hurt either), as it is a fundamental self-rescue knot used for many applications, including belay escapes and knot passing, skills which any outdoor climber should be well versed in.

not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to raise a valid point, so please bear with me.

i think it's worth pointing out that the PMMO, while a useful tool, requires a good deal of cord and is typically made from a cordelette. with the exception of the present scenario, there's a decent chance that you won't have a cordelette available should a rescue become necessary.

The suggestions so far have what I'd call "gaps," moments when an instruction does not seem to take account of obstacles to carrying it out. Rather than a detailed response, let me just note that if the assisted rappel is to take place using the rescuers device, than that device can only be attached to a slack rope, which means it must go below the victim's device.

You mentioned this knot 6 times in one post. What is a NZ Prussik? I've found nothing with Google.