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VFV
Jun 17, 2009, 1:33 PM
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wallace
Jun 17, 2009, 1:47 PM
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A staple is only a single anchor point. If the surrounding rock has a fault, both legs are likely to come out together, given enough force.
Use a single staple in combination with another point or points for your anchor, as you would any single bolt.
cheers, Andy
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shoo
Jun 17, 2009, 2:50 PM
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Don't forget to sling the diet pepsi extra long.
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altelis
Jun 17, 2009, 3:08 PM
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wallace wrote: A staple is only a single anchor point. If the surrounding rock has a fault, both legs are likely to come out together, given enough force. Use a single staple in combination with another point or points for your anchor, as you would any single bolt. cheers, Andy
I don't know for sure, but my understanding is that the two legs of the staple are far enough apart from each other that they are just as redundant as a two bolt anchor. That is, if well set, both arms of the staple are just as likely to rip as two bolts that are configured to be part of an anchor.
Those staple legs are FAR. The only real advantages that I know about for the staples are that they are long and therefor work better in potentially weaker rock and that they don't require the use of a biner on that end- you can just tie the cord/rope/webbing directly to the arm....
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shoo
Jun 17, 2009, 3:49 PM
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It depends on the kind of staple bolt we're talking about here. There are short, U-bolts, and longer cornered staples.
I've never seen that longer type. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone would choose to place the longer staple variety instead of two separate glue-ins. It's more redundant, reduces visual impact, and is easier to get to the crag than a big steel bar. Anyone want to shed some light on this?
U-bolts (pictured below) are usually considered a single point of protection.
For the longer type, I would imagine that it is acceptable to use them as either two separate pieces or a single piece for TR anchors, but I'll let someone who actually uses these chime in.
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altelis
Jun 17, 2009, 3:53 PM
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shoo wrote: It depends on the kind of staple bolt we're talking about here. There are short, U-bolts, and longer cornered staples. I've never seen that longer type. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone would choose to place the longer staple variety instead of two separate glue-ins. It's more redundant, reduces visual impact, and is easier to get to the crag than a big steel bar. Anyone want to shed some light on this? U-bolts (pictured below) are usually considered a single point of protection. [image]http://www.climb.co.nz/References/Bolting/U_Bolt_Problem.jpg[/image] For the longer type, I would imagine that it is acceptable to use them as either two separate pieces or a single piece for TR anchors, but I'll let someone who actually uses these chime in.
the only place i've seen the longer staple types is at otter cliffs in acadia and there i was informed by the local guides that using them as one piece was acceptable. take that for whatever you think its worth.....and i have no real idea why they were placed verses other alternatives...
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marc801
Jun 17, 2009, 4:02 PM
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altelis wrote: shoo wrote: It depends on the kind of staple bolt we're talking about here. There are short, U-bolts, and longer cornered staples. I've never seen that longer type. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone would choose to place the longer staple variety instead of two separate glue-ins. It's more redundant, reduces visual impact, and is easier to get to the crag than a big steel bar. Anyone want to shed some light on this? U-bolts (pictured below) are usually considered a single point of protection. [image]http://www.climb.co.nz/References/Bolting/U_Bolt_Problem.jpg[/image] For the longer type, I would imagine that it is acceptable to use them as either two separate pieces or a single piece for TR anchors, but I'll let someone who actually uses these chime in. the only place i've seen the longer staple types is at otter cliffs in acadia and there i was informed by the local guides that using them as one piece was acceptable. take that for whatever you think its worth.....and i have no real idea why they were placed verses other alternatives...
The were placed in only one small, heavily used, area at Otter Cliffs to preserve the few trees that are there. They are massive - 3/4" diameter or more? - and the two legs far apart. There are no issues in using them as a single point anchor. There are situations were redundancy is not necessary.
As far as "hauling them to the cliff": it's at the top of a sea cliff, as is the road, and about a 45 second walk from where you park.
(This post was edited by marc801 on Jun 17, 2009, 4:03 PM)
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altelis
Jun 17, 2009, 4:09 PM
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marc801 wrote: altelis wrote: shoo wrote: It depends on the kind of staple bolt we're talking about here. There are short, U-bolts, and longer cornered staples. I've never seen that longer type. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone would choose to place the longer staple variety instead of two separate glue-ins. It's more redundant, reduces visual impact, and is easier to get to the crag than a big steel bar. Anyone want to shed some light on this? U-bolts (pictured below) are usually considered a single point of protection. [image]http://www.climb.co.nz/References/Bolting/U_Bolt_Problem.jpg[/image] For the longer type, I would imagine that it is acceptable to use them as either two separate pieces or a single piece for TR anchors, but I'll let someone who actually uses these chime in. the only place i've seen the longer staple types is at otter cliffs in acadia and there i was informed by the local guides that using them as one piece was acceptable. take that for whatever you think its worth.....and i have no real idea why they were placed verses other alternatives... The were placed in only one small, heavily used, area at Otter Cliffs to preserve the few trees that are there. They are massive - 3/4" diameter or more? - and the two legs far apart. There are no issues in using them as a single point anchor. There are situations were redundancy is not necessary. As far as "hauling them to the cliff": it's at the top of a sea cliff, as is the road, and about a 45 second walk from where you park.
I'm really not picking a fight, as I don't CARE that the spelling is terrible- but are you DRUNK right now? 'Cause you edited that post and it's still barely readable!
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marc801
Jun 17, 2009, 4:29 PM
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altelis wrote: marc801 wrote: altelis wrote: shoo wrote: It depends on the kind of staple bolt we're talking about here. There are short, U-bolts, and longer cornered staples. I've never seen that longer type. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone would choose to place the longer staple variety instead of two separate glue-ins. It's more redundant, reduces visual impact, and is easier to get to the crag than a big steel bar. Anyone want to shed some light on this? U-bolts (pictured below) are usually considered a single point of protection. [image]http://www.climb.co.nz/References/Bolting/U_Bolt_Problem.jpg[/image] For the longer type, I would imagine that it is acceptable to use them as either two separate pieces or a single piece for TR anchors, but I'll let someone who actually uses these chime in. the only place i've seen the longer staple types is at otter cliffs in acadia and there i was informed by the local guides that using them as one piece was acceptable. take that for whatever you think its worth.....and i have no real idea why they were placed verses other alternatives... The were placed in only one small, heavily used, area at Otter Cliffs to preserve the few trees that are there. They are massive - 3/4" diameter or more? - and the two legs far apart. There are no issues in using them as a single point anchor. There are situations were redundancy is not necessary. As far as "hauling them to the cliff": it's at the top of a sea cliff, as is the road, and about a 45 second walk from where you park. I'm really not picking a fight, as I don't CARE that the spelling is terrible- but are you DRUNK right now? 'Cause you edited that post and it's still barely readable!
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swaghole
Jun 17, 2009, 4:29 PM
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"marc801 wrote: The were placed in only one small, heavily used, area at Otter Cliffs to preserve the few trees that are there. They are massive - 3/4" diameter or more? - and the two legs far apart. There are no issues in using them as a single point anchor. There are situations were redundancy is not necessary. As far as "hauling them to the cliff": it's at the top of a sea cliff, as is the road, and about a 45 second walk from where you park.
I had never seen them used anywhere before so I took a picture (with the Pepsi bottle for size reference).
I'd say that these are the most idiot-proof top anchors I've seen. Since the area (Otter Cliff) is so easily accessible, lots of gumbys climb there. Must help maintain a low rate of cratering.
(This post was edited by swaghole on Jun 17, 2009, 4:29 PM)
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marc801
Jun 17, 2009, 4:34 PM
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swaghole wrote: I had never seen them used anywhere before...
swaghole wrote: I'd say that these are the most idiot-proof top anchors I've seen. Since the area (Otter Cliff) is so easily accessible, lots of gumbys climb there. Must help maintain a low rate of cratering.
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bill413
Jun 17, 2009, 7:38 PM
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swaghole wrote: "marc801 wrote: The were placed in only one small, heavily used, area at Otter Cliffs to preserve the few trees that are there. They are massive - 3/4" diameter or more? - and the two legs far apart. There are no issues in using them as a single point anchor. There are situations were redundancy is not necessary. As far as "hauling them to the cliff": it's at the top of a sea cliff, as is the road, and about a 45 second walk from where you park. I had never seen them used anywhere before so I took a picture (with the Pepsi bottle for size reference). I'd say that these are the most idiot-proof top anchors I've seen. Since the area (Otter Cliff) is so easily accessible, lots of gumbys climb there. Must help maintain a low rate of cratering.
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hafilax
Jun 17, 2009, 8:12 PM
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My bet is that those see a LOT of direct top rope action. As in the rope running over the staple with no other gear.
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altelis
Jun 18, 2009, 2:55 AM
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hafilax wrote: My bet is that those see a LOT of direct top rope action. As in the rope running over the staple with no other gear.
not any of the times i was climbing there....too far from the edge. you would destroy your rope fast!
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marc801
Jun 18, 2009, 3:35 AM
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altelis wrote: hafilax wrote: My bet is that those see a LOT of direct top rope action. As in the rope running over the staple with no other gear. not any of the times i was climbing there....too far from the edge. you would destroy your rope fast!
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hafilax
Jun 18, 2009, 3:56 AM
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I didn't necessarily mean that one in particular. I was thinking more of the design in general.
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marc801
Jun 18, 2009, 4:02 AM
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As we've mentioned, the only place they've ever been seen is in Acadia NP.
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majid_sabet
Jun 18, 2009, 4:53 AM
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shoo wrote: It depends on the kind of staple bolt we're talking about here. There are short, U-bolts, and longer cornered staples. I've never seen that longer type. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone would choose to place the longer staple variety instead of two separate glue-ins. It's more redundant, reduces visual impact, and is easier to get to the crag than a big steel bar. Anyone want to shed some light on this? U-bolts (pictured below) are usually considered a single point of protection. [image]http://www.climb.co.nz/References/Bolting/U_Bolt_Problem.jpg[/image] For the longer type, I would imagine that it is acceptable to use them as either two separate pieces or a single piece for TR anchors, but I'll let someone who actually uses these chime in.
what is the KN spec on this U bolts and what sizes do they come ? I mean how far do you hammer them in and what do you use to glue them in if any.
thanks
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bill413
Jun 18, 2009, 11:04 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: what is the KN spec on this U bolts and what sizes do they come ? I mean how far do you hammer them in and what do you use to glue them in if any.
Well, obviously, you would use a large staple gun.
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swaghole
Jun 18, 2009, 11:59 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: shoo wrote: It depends on the kind of staple bolt we're talking about here. There are short, U-bolts, and longer cornered staples. I've never seen that longer type. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone would choose to place the longer staple variety instead of two separate glue-ins. It's more redundant, reduces visual impact, and is easier to get to the crag than a big steel bar. Anyone want to shed some light on this? U-bolts (pictured below) are usually considered a single point of protection. [image]http://www.climb.co.nz/References/Bolting/U_Bolt_Problem.jpg[/image] For the longer type, I would imagine that it is acceptable to use them as either two separate pieces or a single piece for TR anchors, but I'll let someone who actually uses these chime in. what is the KN spec on this U bolts and what sizes do they come ? I mean how far do you hammer them in and what do you use to glue them in if any. thanks
I was told by a local guide (Jeff) that the 'legs' on those staples were glued in and went down about 18 inches in the granite.
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USnavy
Jun 18, 2009, 12:50 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: shoo wrote: It depends on the kind of staple bolt we're talking about here. There are short, U-bolts, and longer cornered staples. I've never seen that longer type. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone would choose to place the longer staple variety instead of two separate glue-ins. It's more redundant, reduces visual impact, and is easier to get to the crag than a big steel bar. Anyone want to shed some light on this? U-bolts (pictured below) are usually considered a single point of protection. [image]http://www.climb.co.nz/References/Bolting/U_Bolt_Problem.jpg[/image] For the longer type, I would imagine that it is acceptable to use them as either two separate pieces or a single piece for TR anchors, but I'll let someone who actually uses these chime in. what is the KN spec on this U bolts and what sizes do they come ? I mean how far do you hammer them in and what do you use to glue them in if any. thanks
http://www.powers.com/product_08402.html
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altelis
Jun 18, 2009, 1:35 PM
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Thanks for the info, but i'm pretty sure that MS was asking about the long staple bolts found at Otter cliffs and not about the star bolts that you have pictured.
MS, if you really want to know i'm sure that any of the guides in Bar Harbor would know, or you could contact the Acadia NPS.
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shoo
Jun 18, 2009, 2:13 PM
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Majid specifically said U bolts.
And to Majid, I have no clue. I have no experience with placing glue-ins.
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