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patto
Jul 27, 2009, 12:34 PM
Post #51 of 73
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king_rat wrote: Having climbed in a quite a few different countries (US, UK, Australia, SA, France, Spain and Italy) you often find that there are different ideas about techniques and safety in different countries. I think it comes down to the climbing culture and history of that country. Argue till you're blue in the face, but people who learnt to climb within a particular climbing culture will always think that their way is superior to yours. As for the original anchor, it basically looks OK, if you are used to setting up this kind of anchor it can be done quickly. I do have two issues with it. 1 the guy in the photo appears to be attached to one of the anchors rather then the master point. If this anchor was to fail it looks like he would then load the second anchor 2 the angle at which the ropes are tied in to the locking biner.
I agree with your two issues.
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fitzontherocks
Jul 27, 2009, 1:23 PM
Post #52 of 73
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The original anchor looks like all pieces are all in the same crack or feature. By the book, that's supposed to be bad, but the rock itself looks decent.
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patto
Jul 27, 2009, 2:12 PM
Post #53 of 73
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fitzontherocks wrote: The original anchor looks like all pieces are all in the same crack or feature. By the book, that's supposed to be bad, but the rock itself looks decent.
Crack climbing. Sometimes all your lead protection and all your anchor is in the same feature. Though having led this climb myself I remember i did place a small nut on a different feature.
But yes for flakes or minor cracks you should be quite aware of this issue.
Also yes the rock is extraordinarily good. After all it is the home of the original micronut the RP. Infact his leftmost visible peice IS an RP.
EDIT some photos of this fantastic climb can be seen here:
http://images.google.com.au/...amp;hl=en&tab=wi
(This post was edited by patto on Jul 27, 2009, 2:16 PM)
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king_rat
Jul 27, 2009, 2:24 PM
Post #54 of 73
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fitzontherocks wrote: The original anchor looks like all pieces are all in the same crack or feature. By the book, that's supposed to be bad, but the rock itself looks decent.
This is only really an issue if the rock/feature has the potential to fail, break or move such as stacking cams behind a flake or under a boulder.
Looking at this picture it looks highly unlikely that that crack would fail unless the whole side of the mountain collapsed.
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acorneau
Jul 27, 2009, 2:37 PM
Post #55 of 73
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dingus wrote: Nope. That is NOT a rivet. That is a classic rawl drive button head split shaft bolt. A rivet, at least in Yosemite, is a standard machine bolt pounded into a hole. DMT
I've never come across one, so I'll defer to your greater experience.
You learn something new every day!
[edit for extraneous apostrophe]
(This post was edited by acorneau on Jul 28, 2009, 2:25 PM)
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knieveltech
Jul 27, 2009, 3:06 PM
Post #56 of 73
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patto wrote: I'm not asking you to care about my chosen method of anchoring. But why you feel the need to insult me simply because you prefer a cordalette over the climbing rope somewhat baffles me.
You're mistaken on a couple of points here. I don't prefer the cordalette. I prefer the equalette or the rope, but in any case my anchor preferences aren't the issue here.
I've stated a clear disagreement with your asertion that tying six knots on the rope (two of which are height dependent and thus apt to result in screwing around with clove hitches to get the height right) could even possibly be as fast as clipping three or four pieces of gear, pulling down on the cord, and then tying a single overhand or eight. That's simply nonsensical.
Even if you nailed your lengths first try you can't tie six knots in equal or less time than it takes to tie a single overhand. If you find that insulting, well, life is often difficult.
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patto
Jul 27, 2009, 3:17 PM
Post #57 of 73
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knieveltech wrote: Even if you nailed your lengths first try you can't tie six knots in equal or less time than it takes to tie a single overhand. If you find that insulting, well, life is often difficult.
No but that was not what I asserted in the first place.
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blondgecko
Moderator
Jul 28, 2009, 6:06 AM
Post #58 of 73
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Ahh, the Watchtower crack. Still up there as one of the scariest climbs I've ever done. The fear was all self-inflicted, though - I attacked it armed mostly with RPs, nuts, and only two pieces of gear (a #10 hex and a #4 Camalot) that were actually big enough to fit in the crack proper. 
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skinner
Jul 29, 2009, 9:36 PM
Post #59 of 73
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sungam wrote: skinner wrote: And this..  It's got an oval biner and a yates shorty screamer on it, it's good to go! BTW.. is that a an old Clog? SMC, Chounard? hex? (have some similar ones hanging above my fireplace). Why I really dropped into the lab was.. I heard a rumor that sungam is going to be visiting the Alberta Rockies soon? BD hex on 1/4 inchers with a wing nut on. Aint the Fishers grand? Plenty of driven stars on that pitch, too. It is true, indeed, that I shall be arriving in canadia in no less then 3 days! Calgary shall be my point of arrival. Shall we make like a banana and climb something? Edit: CT.
Latest rumors have you dwelling with the darkside ? Get Grant to bring you down for a beer at Nicks tonight after 8:00 PM, and I'm sure you can hook up with someone to get out with,.. I won't know until the morning what day(s) I can go, but if I don't have to work, let's climb something. I just talked to Brenden aka-the_climber, who'll be at Nicks as well.
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skinner
Jul 29, 2009, 10:05 PM
Post #60 of 73
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acorneau wrote: skinner wrote: Isn't this....just a "rivet" and this..a "rivet hanger"? Not quite. This is a rivet: 
Well I guess we must just be cheap here, I know that official "rivets" like in the photo (above) exist, I've never actually come across one myself.
All the "rivet ladders" that I've had the misfortune to find myself on, were made up of nothing more then 1/4" slightly modified (or not).. standard machine bolts, tapped in, with just the threads holding them in place. Pretty much all like this..
Basically, most of us here refer to anything that is just bashed into a hole without some form of anchoring mechanism as is the case with a bolt, intended for body weight only (of course sometimes this is the only pro, and you hope/pray that it will exceed these expectations when/if required).. a rivet. It's all semantics when you come across one and there's nothing else around. I for one, clip it, don't really care what it's called, hope it holds!
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scotty1974
Jul 30, 2009, 6:03 PM
Post #61 of 73
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In response to the ice anchor....
Seems strong but yipes that's alot of gear!! Hope there isn't a pitch after that one! 5 screws and 2 axes?? I'm also assuming it's not wieghted, but there seems to be alot of slack and lack of equalization. I'd probably use less gear since the ice "looks" good and tidy it up a bit IMO.
(This post was edited by scotty1974 on Jul 30, 2009, 6:06 PM)
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rightarmbad
Aug 24, 2009, 12:16 PM
Post #62 of 73
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The term carrot in Australia originally referred to a badly placed bash in bolt, possible bent, droopy or suffering other maladies from a bad install. Good bolts are just that, bolts.
Newer climbers just call everything that is a bolt a carrot, as they tend not to have any contact with the original installers of these things.
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mikebee
Aug 24, 2009, 12:53 PM
Post #63 of 73
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In reply to: Newer climbers just call everything that is a bolt a carrot, as they tend not to have any contact with the original installers of these things.
I reckon that a lot of climbers, regardless of age or era now refer to any hanger-less bolt (like the one pictured above) as a "carrot". Certainly everyone I speak to about climbing uses the term that way.
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Alpine07
Aug 25, 2009, 9:20 PM
Post #64 of 73
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In response to the response to the ice anchor.
It may seem strong, but it is not. It is not weighted. The reason for it looking like there is a lot of slack and such is because I was leaning away to take the picture, which makes it look unequalized by pulling sideways on the anchor... The ice may look good, but I assure you that it is nowhere near being good. Oh yeah, it was night too.
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shimanilami
Aug 25, 2009, 9:57 PM
Post #65 of 73
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The guy in the picture is the follower. The belay was redirected through the piece out of the picture on the left. The belayer is attached to the powerpoint via a sling.
The crossloading is not that severe, and the master 'biner is not going to get shock loaded. I'd have no concerns about this.
I can't figure out why there's keyhole hanger on the master 'biner.
Presuming the pieces are good, that achor is bomber.
And if using the rope to build the anchor bothers you, grow up.
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acorneau
Aug 26, 2009, 1:53 PM
Post #66 of 73
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shimanilami wrote: The guy in the picture is the follower. The belay was redirected through the piece out of the picture on the left. The belayer is attached to the powerpoint via a sling. The crossloading is not that severe, and the master 'biner is not going to get shock loaded. I'd have no concerns about this. I can't figure out why there's keyhole hanger on the master 'biner. Presuming the pieces are good, that achor is bomber. And if using the rope to build the anchor bothers you, grow up.
Was this directed at me or just replying to the thread?
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shimanilami
Aug 26, 2009, 4:52 PM
Post #67 of 73
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acorneau wrote: Was this directed at me or just replying to the thread?
Not at you.
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Factor2
Aug 26, 2009, 5:49 PM
Post #68 of 73
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is nobody looking at the shitton of rope that anchor uses? what if you had a 180, 190' pitch after that?
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wesleydouglas
Aug 27, 2009, 6:54 AM
Post #73 of 73
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Hangerless bolts in Australia are generally and accurately described as carrots.
Original carrots were mild steel bash-in types.
Nost of those place nowadays are stainless steel glue-ins.
Carrots were developed by Bryden Allen, a current member of the Sydney Rockclimbing Club, to protect unprotectable sections on sandstone cliffs - the main rock-type we climb here in NSW, Australia. They are a neat and low-key solution to a local problem - soft sandstone.
Carrots and keyhole hangers are mostly bomber with very few failures recorded in decades of use. Expansion-type bolts cannot be used in NSW sandstone.
Occasionally visiting Yanks, Poms or Euros will squeal with puzzlement when they rock up to a sport crag and find that the route they want to climb is hanger free.
When in Australia BYO hangers, although many sport crags - such as Nowra - mostly have ringbolts or fixed hangers.
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