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IanScott
Sep 21, 2009, 1:24 PM
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For too long I've been under dressing for every season, so i decided to buy a nice jacket to purchase for this season. Does anyone have any suggestions for jackets? I'm looking for one that I can use in below freezing windy weather. Maybe something with a rain shell. Any suggestions would be great!
Thankyou
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taydude
Sep 21, 2009, 1:31 PM
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well if you wanna go cheap, I just got the Merrell Task insulated jacket on steepandcheap.com for about 65 bucks. There were a bunch left so it'll pop up again in the future.
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clc
Sep 21, 2009, 1:55 PM
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patagonia DAS parka, but its definitely not waterproof. Big insulated jacket are not waterproof. Go for synthetic insulation
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qtm
Sep 21, 2009, 2:25 PM
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Well, what are you going to use it for? Cold weather climbing? Ice climbing/belaying? Mountaineering?
I've got different soft shells, hard shells, fleeces and downs for different activity levels and weather conditions.
Mostly it's fleece and soft shell. I'll pack the down if I expect it to get really cold (or sitting around a lot), or the hard shell if it's going to be rain/sleet, but I usually don't pack both.
I generally like Marmot because they fit well in the shoulders and chest. But I'll buy whatever fits if it's on clearance, I expect all the major brands will work as far as I'm going to push them.
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granite_grrl
Sep 21, 2009, 2:41 PM
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The simplist system with a fleece with some sort of water proof shell. A Gortex shell is the most obvious, but there are a number of other cheaper (though maybe not as breathable) waterproof shells out there.
But your system really depends on what you're doing. If I'm just doing early/late season cragging I'll bring my down jacket along to wear between burns. Ice climbing, my softshell. Ice climbing in really really wet circumstances, I have my hardshell. Belaying an ice climb on a really cold day, I wear my down jacket and my husbands DAS Parka over that. Tons of possibilities.
And don't forget about slipping on some long underwear too, if required.
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scotty1974
Sep 21, 2009, 3:51 PM
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As far as fleeces is concerned, I wouldn't recommend them. I have a closet full of fleeces I only wear around town. Yeah, they can be warm etc, but they don't pack down worth a damn, are heavy, and you're either hot or cold. There are sooo many better polypro products available. Fleece is nice, but heats up WAY to quick, especially if you have a windblocking version.
The key for a system is layering.
One thing you'll need to figure out is what your need is..are you bouldering or just belaying a rock climb? Simple down will do.
Ice climbing? I use the Mammut Stratus hooded jacket or an OR chaos jacket. Synthetic, and packs down the size of a fleece with 2-3x the warmth.
For ice climbing or other cold weather activities, a good layering system is key. AVOID getting WET!! SWEAT = WET = COLD!! I personally do a polypro undershirt, then a heavy poly pro zip up such as a Cloudveil run don't walk hooded top or patagoinia hooded R-1. Then it's a nice softshell. Throw a belay jacket over that and you are stylin...
I use gortex or waterproof jackets, but I typically avoid them as well unless I know the weather will be crappy or windy. I have a really lightweight Montbell rainshell that I throw in my bag for emergencies.
Those North Face Hyvent/fleece combo jackets will keep you warm walking from the bar or belaying, but anything else you'll have a sweatfest that weighs 10lbs.
If you do choose fleece, make sure it's a lighter weight, new technical type. You'll only appreciate the heavy stuff when you are standing still.
I have too many jackets to buy this, but the NF redpoint optimus looks pretty sweet. Light, warm and has a hood. Or the Mountain hardwear hooded compressor jacket. Throw a rainshell over those puppies and you're good to go...
(This post was edited by scotty1974 on Sep 21, 2009, 8:13 PM)
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qwert
Sep 22, 2009, 8:19 AM
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IanScott wrote: For too long I've been under dressing for every season, so i decided to buy a nice jacket to purchase for this season. Does anyone have any suggestions for jackets? I'm looking for one that I can use in below freezing windy weather. Maybe something with a rain shell. Any suggestions would be great! Thankyou
So you have been underdressing all the time, and you are looking for any suggestion, maybe with a rainshell 
coulde you be more specific?
Generally speaking if we are talking "harmless" activities and "normal" cold weather, chances are that you already have what you need and just are doing it wrong.
Thin poly or whool underwear + n layers fleece or similar + water and windproof shell + gloves + beanie = warmth
If you are not doing something where you sweating much and you dont need you stuff for days, you can also use some cotton (or if its a really cold, really dry cold)
If you are sweating much you have to often take of some layers, and put them back on if you stop.
softshells are really really nice for most conditions.
If its really cold, or a stop and go activity a down or syntethic jacket is a good investment.
So there you have it.
It depends,
as always.
qwert
And before i forget:
Do a search, if you are really looking for cold weather clothing. This topic has been discussed roughly 32450394823,23423423 times
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william.alan.swanson
Sep 22, 2009, 11:36 AM
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Cold, dry, inactive (belaying): Down
Cold, dry, active (climbing): Softshell
Cold, wet, inactive: Down or synthetic insulating layer + hardshell
Cold, wet, active: thinner layers (fleece, wool, polypro) + hardshell
Don't underestimate the importance of baselayers. I'm a huge fan of merino wool, but polyester stuff works just as well.
Some softshells are windproof, others are not. If you're planning on being in the wind a lot, make sure to check the fabrics. Membraned softshells are generally more windproof.
There are a number of 3 in 1 jackets that pop up on Steap and Cheap, consisting of a synthetic insulation layer and a waterproof shell. Something like that might be your best bet, depending on how wet you think it might be.
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joshy8200
Sep 22, 2009, 2:07 PM
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william.alan.swanson wrote: Cold, dry, inactive (belaying): Down Cold, dry, active (climbing): Softshell Cold, wet, inactive: Down or synthetic insulating layer + hardshell Cold, wet, active: thinner layers (fleece, wool, polypro) + hardshell Don't underestimate the importance of baselayers. I'm a huge fan of merino wool, but polyester stuff works just as well.
Polypro vs Wool is a hot topic in baselayers. Both have very similar properties, but a difference being that wool won't smell like body odor nearly as quickly.
There was also a comment about fleece being 'too hot or too cold and not very packable'...while I can understand this argument I would suggest the alternative is fleece isn't the "primary" basis of your insulation layering system.
I layer based on: underwear first. First think do you need a light weight or heavy/mid weight base underwear. Then a fleece layer that for me is usually a standard 100w zip neck shirt that can be added or subtracted as needed. And then decide on a shell (that can also be added or subtracted as needed). Base the shell layer on wetness/precipitation that is expected.
The three piece layering system gives a ton of variability in how you can fine tune based on...conditions changing during the day, activity changing during the day, or personal variability.
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iron106
Sep 22, 2009, 3:37 PM
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One thing about wool vs synthetic layer is.
Wool can wick vapor. Any synthetic layer has to get wet in order to wick.
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herbertpowell
Sep 22, 2009, 5:07 PM
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Once wool is wet, it stays wet much longer than synthetic.
I personally use wool for 1-day activities because it is comfortable and odor free.
I only use synthetic base layers on long trips because wool is heavy and doesn't dry easily.
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iron106
Sep 22, 2009, 5:55 PM
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I have worn my Smartwool boxers for 5 days straight as a test. Granted they were still new but no funk. I also slept in them.
Maybe an exception. Just my experience.
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herbertpowell
Sep 22, 2009, 6:01 PM
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In cold and wet conditions (long mountaineering trips), I've tried Smartwool, Icebreaker and Patagonia wool stuff.
I find a few things happen with wool: it stays damp, it stretches out when damp, and it gets heavy because it is damp.
The synthetics retain their shape, dry easily, don't get heavy, and smell bad.
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shimanilami
Sep 22, 2009, 7:19 PM
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What are you doing in this jacket? Climbing? Belaying? Watching football? I might recommend very different clothing depending on what you're up to.
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gunkiemike
Sep 22, 2009, 8:51 PM
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herbertpowell wrote: In cold and wet conditions (long mountaineering trips), I've tried Smartwool, Icebreaker and Patagonia wool stuff. I find a few things happen with wool: it stays damp, it stretches out when damp, and it gets heavy because it is damp. The synthetics retain their shape, dry easily, don't get heavy, and smell bad.
Similar experience here. A typical winter outing for me is a 1 hr steep approach to a multipitch ice climb. "Not sweating" on the approach, esp on my back where the pack rides, is not a practical reality. So when we get to the base of the route, my back is wet. In a wicking polyester base layer, my back is dry and I am warm before the first pitch is finished. In wool, I stay wet all day, and get chilled at each belay.
So while I've tried to love wool for 30+ years, it is no match *for my purposes* to modern synthetics. Yes, the latter do smell bad quickly.
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herbertpowell
Sep 22, 2009, 9:20 PM
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I do like wool hats though, especially near mountains surrounded by desert.
As I ascend or descend and am in the sun and heat, I dunk the wool hat in the glacial streams and put it on. Instant air conditioning. . . the wool stays nice and wet for a long while, continually cooling me off.
Cotton bandannas help too (wet neck shade).
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unrest
Sep 23, 2009, 5:30 PM
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I have a Cloudveile Rayzar soft-shell $225 at Sierra Trading Post. I have a Marmot DriClime (Bright orange and love it.) $34 at REI. I have a Primaloft full-zip Mountain Hardware $99 at Sierra Trading Post. I have an IceBreaker 260 Merrino Wool Top $89 at Sierra Trading Post. I have an IceBreaker 150 T-Shirt $60 and I don't recall where.
I will cross-layer these in many arrangements and can beat almost any combination of elements out there. My climbing pack has a 12"x16" base and I have a soft zippered compartment that I normally can stuff all of this into.
I always have the IceBreakers for base and then I'll top it with the DriClime ( around 40 out) or the Cloudveil (50 out) and if it's just cold in the 20's or 30's I'll use the IceBreaker-T, IceBreaker 260 long sleeve, Primaloft, Cloudveil and if it's really farking cold I'll put the DriClime between the Primaloft and the Cloudveil. I'm completely element proof at that point but will have to swap layers depending on activity levels and such.
Finally I have a full GorTex outer layer that is both wind and water proof if the whole world has gone to hell and it's freezing cold and wet and nothing else is going to work. All of these pieces together are the bomb and compress into a very small space.
The point is that having many layers allows you to handle everything. You will want a soft-shell pant that is wind/rain proof (spend around $30-$60 at Sierra Trading Post) and after that you are set.
A good set of outer-wear that you can interchange is excellent. You want to avoid sweating at all costs so try be -WARM- only if you aren't moving (a belay stance) and dress where you are a bit cool at stationary if you will be climbing that way as you build up heat from effort you'll be properly protected.
Fabrics to look for specifically:
Base Layer:
Polyester, Merrino Wool (Bomber)
Mid Layers:
DriClime, R1, Merrino Wool, Primaloft, Down, Etc...
Outerlayer:
WB400 Schoeller, Gore Windstopper, GoreTex
To do it right plan on spending some money. Hand wash all your pieces, air dry them and they will serve you through many a campaign to be sure.
-EDIT- There is a 16 minute long video on YouTube where Steve House unpacks his gear bag from when he climbed Nanga Parbat (SP?) and I found it an excellent video well worth the time investment. He gets into his layers and such and you can learn a lot from it. Very simple. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIkmYiwbZWg/-EDIT-/
(This post was edited by unrest on Sep 23, 2009, 5:38 PM)
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xaniel2000
Sep 23, 2009, 9:24 PM
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I think the OP has frozen to death. He lacked a proper jacket 
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