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reventropy
Oct 13, 2009, 9:05 PM
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Registered: Sep 22, 2007
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While at The Red I noticed many people using the Faders Sum belay device. All I heard were good things. Coupling this with the intuitive loading I convinced my girlfriend to buy one over the Grigri with the pretext that if she didn't like it I'd trade her for it. We tried it at some local gyms in Denver and Boulder and ran in to some problems. The first thing we realized was that it is difficult to load with a rope larger than 10.0. Notice that the ratings printed on the device indicate that it will work with up to a 10.5. At first I was frustrated with how the device had to be oriented to properly feed slack. This I determined would resolve itself with some practice, but the other issue is far worse. It is a huge struggle to lower with this device and I've tried it on 9.8-10.2 rope diameters. I can't lower my 115 pound girlfriend at all with the device on a larger than 10.0 and yes I have read the instructions. Heavier people I can lower but it takes an intense amount of effort and is not smooth. Furthermore in order to do so I am forced to push down the device with all my might while simultaneously pressing the handle fully down which doesn't seem safe in the least. I've elected not to use the Sum based on these issues and now I'm left with a $90 paper weight. Of course the retailer won't return used climbing gear so I've written Sum asking for a refund. Either nobody there speaks English, or they're ignoring me. It could stand to reason that I have a defective Sum but given the company's silence I have nothing positive to say about the device and all I can assume is that it does not work as advertised.
(This post was edited by reventropy on Oct 15, 2009, 8:10 PM)
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reventropy
Oct 13, 2009, 9:08 PM
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Registered: Sep 22, 2007
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I also had a friend who is familiar with the Sum test the device on a used 9.8 (probably 10 by now) rope. He also had problems lowering me (I weigh 165).
(This post was edited by reventropy on Oct 15, 2009, 8:11 PM)
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joewtc
Oct 14, 2009, 2:18 AM
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Registered: Aug 27, 2009
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I own a SUM too after my friend recommended it to me.
Pro: It seems to lock better and more secure than the gri-gri as it has 2 cams.
Con: sometimes, I find it ridiculously hard to lower. Sometimes I can lower someone easily and sometimes the thing just got locked up. But my friend can lower anybody so smoothly and effortlessly. But he got strong shoulders and arms and climb 5.13. He told me, "just lean over the thing and it will go smooth". It works perfect for him, but for me, 50/50 chance only.
Useful tip:
1.
straight arm, grab the SUM and handle, lean over the SUM and point it's front end to the ground with the other hand controlling the slippage of the rope.
2.
I have no problem with my own ropes in outdoor. Some old indoor gym ropes seem to get locked up more and harder to lower.
I personally prefer ATC for belaying since I can give out or take in slack way faster than SUM/gri-gri. I like the SUM for top rope solo or top rope belaying a heavy person trying out a route and constantly fall and weight the rope.
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reventropy
Oct 15, 2009, 8:05 PM
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Registered: Sep 22, 2007
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Thanks Joe. I've tried what you suggested and it's pretty much what's called for in the instructions. I guess based on your response it may be good for belaying someone in the 200 lb range but that rarely happens for me. I notice I can't lower lighter people at all with fat gym ropes. I'm pissed that I payed $90 for this thing and I have to massage it way more than an ATC. If someone wants to lower and work a route I'm SOL unless they have a 9.x rope. Plus my concerns are being ignored by the manufacturer. Not even a peep. Maybe I can unload this thing on the guy who gave this thread 1 star. $50 and it's yours.
(This post was edited by reventropy on Oct 15, 2009, 8:07 PM)
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joewtc
Oct 15, 2009, 8:23 PM
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Registered: Aug 27, 2009
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I climb 4-5 times a week indoor/outdoor and mostly with people ranging from 120-180lbs. The problem with SUM is:
- for me, it isn't the weight of the person. Sometimes, it works so smooth and sometimes just locks up (and I'm embarassed as if I don't know how to lower a person) Then, lowering becomes more tiring than trying out a project. Sometimes, I got so pumped and have to shake out my arm in between the lowering.
- I researched online and some people have absolutely no problem with lowering and they say it's a technique issue, once they got it, they do it so well.
- I top rope rope solo with SUM and so I have to rappel 1 rope numerous times whole day. I have no problem rappeling myself, but I'd say SUM's design for lowering is quite problematic and takes so much effort.
I now use my SUM everytime I go to the gym just to practise the "ideal" way of lowering, hope I can "get it" as other users did.
But it sucks that the manufacturer ignored your reply. I bought my gear from a gear shop with excellent return policy.
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coolcat83
Oct 15, 2009, 9:06 PM
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Registered: Jan 27, 2007
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I've used a lot of belay devices, the sum was never easy for me, and I know others have had the same issues you describe. Get a cinch, it'll feed and lower like a dream.
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clc
Oct 15, 2009, 11:50 PM
Post #7 of 9
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Registered: Feb 12, 2005
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So to sum it up.....the SUM is a piece of shit. don't buy!? stick with the GriGri
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I_do
Oct 21, 2009, 3:51 PM
Post #8 of 9
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Registered: Mar 2, 2008
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clc wrote: So to sum it up.....the SUM is a piece of shit. don't buy!? stick with the GriGri
So let's hear I different sound, I really like my sum! I have tried the gri-gri and edelrid eddy earlier but never felt the need to buy one, after having used the sum I got one, an as said very happy with it. I agree it doesn't lower very easily. Especially when lowering someone from the top of a pitch which means I won't take it on multi's (although nothing beats the reverso 3 on that stuff anyways). I found aligning the orientation of the rope with the slot in the device in a straight line works fine even with smaller people, but I'm a relatively heavy and strongish dude. The way it feeds and takes in rope is fantastic though and I leave it on lead belays especially in projects where there's tons of falls and not much lowering. Far better then a gri-gri imho and doesn't need the cam to be blocked to feed out rope quickly.
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Hooky
Oct 24, 2009, 10:22 PM
Post #9 of 9
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Registered: Jan 6, 2009
Posts: 29
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After reading this thread, I can't believe such device even exists.
"...Sometimes, I got so pumped and have to shake out my arm in between the lowering..."
Good Lord!
Some time ago I considered buying this for safety issues, then got Mammut Smart instead, and I still hardly ever use anything other than Reverso.
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