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jakeh76
Dec 11, 2002, 1:16 PM
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Any advice from alpine rock climbers on starting into the alpine part of alpine rock climbing?? Are their any skills someone moving to alpine climbing should be espcially good at? Also, I'm in the east, what can I do to prepare for the alpine as far as training? Thanks.
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roc-ray
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Dec 11, 2002, 1:45 PM
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Moving fast and safe over lots of terrain.Try simulclimbing easy climbs with a partner you trust,the second climber should be solid or the leader takes the worst of a fall.It may seem foolhardy to go fast but I have seen too many parties bail or get benighted on a route because daylight ran out or even worst bad weather moved in.
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agrauch
Dec 11, 2002, 3:53 PM
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In addition to moving fast, you'll want to be comfortable climbing, both leading and following, with a pack on. It's good to be able to climb moderate rock in mountain boots. Both of these skills are easy to practice on toprope before moving onto bigger things.
You'll also want to be proficient with an axe for approaches and descents.
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elvislegs
Dec 11, 2002, 4:31 PM
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Learning avalanche safety and route finding wouldn't hurt, and by "wouldn't hurt" I mean ABSOLUTELY DO IT! Also work your cardio and legs hard.
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mountainmonkey
Dec 11, 2002, 5:31 PM
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You could try the Alpine Simulator:
On the previous night you must hike for 10 miles, and get no more than 3 hours of sleep.
Wake up between 1 and 2, hike 10 miles uphill (on loose talus/scree) with all your gear.
Immediately start to climb (with pack).
Have one person above you spray a hose of cold water, throw ice/snow down, and periodically drop rocks.
You must climb as fast as possible (20 min/pitch max for both people) but still be safe (pulling on gear is ok).
You must be climbing for at least 8 hours with no breaks.
Dry tool when the holds get too small, climb only in boots or boots with crampons.
When you reach the top of the climb slog back down 15 miles with all your gear.
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bradhill
Dec 11, 2002, 5:43 PM
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Know how to read mountain weather.
Know how to self rescue.
Know how to bail quickly and safely from high up on a multipitch route.
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hallm
Dec 11, 2002, 5:55 PM
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There are also the obvious issues of self-arrest, self-belay, glacier travel, etc. Be efficient at getting on your ice gear (i.e. putting on boots, crampons, bibs, etc.) at small stances. Be comfortable free-soloing/simulclimbing/downclimbing up to 5.6 (the rope should almost never come out on anything less). Be able to continue up or down when night falls (the benighted point is a good one, you don't want to make a forced bivy above treeline if you can help it). Most of all, develop a high tolerance for unpleasent situations (the Alpine Simulator post is pretty damn accurate).
Oh yeah, I almost forgot, always keep your head on straight - always think your next move through, survey the terrain, be willing to go up to go down and vice-versa. Quick decisions are usually bad ones.
[ This Message was edited by: hallm on 2002-12-11 10:00 ]
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coclimber26
Dec 13, 2002, 1:59 AM
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You may look a little strange but practice climbing at your local crag in mountaineering boots and with all the gear you will use. It's also a good idea To try some easy climbing in your crampons to get a feel for it. Climb some in your gloves aswell..
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rockprodigy
Dec 13, 2002, 3:10 AM
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Uhhh, I think he was asking about alpine ROCK climbing.
Probably the most important thing is to be fast. That means being able to climb with a pack on (even leading) 'cause it's faster than hauling, climbing in boots or approach shoes 'cause it's faster, running pitches together, simulclimbing, setting belays quickly, and fast changeovers. Aside from being fast, the other important thing is routefinding, 'cause there ain't gonna be tons a chalk (unless you're on the Exum Ridge). Here's the key to routefinding: "If I were doing the first ascent, where would I go?" Then just use common sense.
"The problem with common sense is that it's all too uncommon."
The only difference between alpine rock climbing and non-alpine rock climbing is the weather. On an "alpine" climb, it's more critical that you finish at the planned time because the consequences of taking too long are more serious.
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topher
Dec 13, 2002, 4:29 AM
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a good safe, place to learn is the bugaboos, i BC Canada. its kinda like sport alpine climbing casue there are so many people out there and the routes are very defined and well climbed. its not real alpine but its a good starting point. but dry tooling and climbing in boots is very helpful. remeber that alpine is the most comiting and i beleive dangoures form of climbing, dont just take the stuff from this forum and try to climb some thing. find a good solid partener that can dragg you up easie stuff and then go from there. one thing you must know is glacier travel!!!! them things are kinda scektchy and same goes for avalanches. remeber you cant just call the SAR and expect to be helped.
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kman
Dec 13, 2002, 8:42 AM
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Topher: "it's not real alpine" What is real alpine?
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climb4life
Dec 15, 2002, 5:23 PM
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please please use your head. get common sense, go to the store and buy some if you have to. know how to self arrest, know how to read weather, know avalanch danger here in colorado because i am on the search and rescue team and i don't want to haul my hairy ass out on a weekend and help some poor dumb guy out. take care and happy climbing
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micronut
Dec 15, 2002, 5:40 PM
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I disagree with the whole "climb with your pack on" school of thought for fast alpine rock climbing. I tie a jacket around my waist, stuff my down vest in one of the pockets, throw in a couple of trash bags for good mesure, grab some dates and baby carrots, clip on a liter of water and I'm good to go.
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rockprodigy
Dec 16, 2002, 5:56 PM
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No pack, that's cool if the route allows that.
What do you do with your approach shoes...and your girlfriend's approach shoes, is she good enough to climb with all of that $hit tied to her? Do you bring a camera?
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alpinerocket
Dec 19, 2002, 4:16 AM
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where do you put your ice axe, first aid kit and cell phone without a pack?
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jhump
Dec 19, 2002, 4:49 PM
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ice axe- in my hand or holster
first aid- duct tape, aspirin- in pocket
cell phone- don't own one
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mountainmonkey
Dec 19, 2002, 5:26 PM
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Packs have advantages and disadvantages and must be evaluated individually for every route. maybe you all can give your ideas, here are mine.
advantages: Allow easy storage. Allow you to take more stuff than your pockets/harness would allow. Provides something insulated and soft to sit on/in. Streamlines your body so you don't a bunch of stuffed pockets and stuff hanging off your body. If you have 1 pack per team, it is nice for the leader to not carry extra weight. Might be necessary if you are climbing 'up and over'.
Disadvantages: Moves your center of gravity up (a big issue on steep terrain). A big pain on offwidths and chimneys. The follower usually has to suffer while climbing with it. Can make for a bigger time delay during the change over at the belay. Extra weight (the pack does weigh some) and you usually try to carry less without a pack.
Example, I climbed the Casual Route on Long's peak this summer. We didn't bivy and did not carry a pack on the technical part of the climb but chose to leave them at the base. On the technical part we carried jackets around our waists, tape and prussiks and food in our pockets, water bottles and approach/descent shoes on our harness. It was definitely the best choice for that climb. However, we did have to descend to the base of the technical part to get our stuff.
Also we did not use ice axes on the snow sections but instead opted for pointed rocks (only practical on easy alpine snow/ice).
[ This Message was edited by: mountainmonkey on 2002-12-19 09:28 ]
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hallm
Dec 20, 2002, 7:40 PM
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Of course, it depends on the route, but I typically bring a pack on alpine routes. I would much rather have a down sweater, good first aid kit, storm jacket, perhaps a half bag, etc. and not have to use them, then not have them with me and need them (I sure hope you people who refuse to climb with packs never get benighted high on a route). Also, what would you do with your crampons, ice boots, etc?
I am curious what mountains have cell reception. My cell usually is no good at the trail head, let alone on route.
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rockprodigy
Dec 20, 2002, 8:01 PM
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Ok, so now that we have established that you may, some day, need to climb with a pack on, you should probably practice that, or at lease practice climbing with a coat tied around your waste, while holding onto your ice axe!
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alpinerocket
Dec 20, 2002, 11:18 PM
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Tetons! I have had good reception all over those mountains. However there aree dead places.
Addition. What size of ice axe do you carry in a holster? If I caried my 70cm like that I would have holes in my calves unless the route is overhung.
[ This Message was edited by: alpinerocket on 2002-12-20 15:20 ]
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alpnclmbr1
Jan 1, 2003, 10:23 PM
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I definetly prefer a light and fast approach, if you bring extra gear your more likely to use it. Be sure your not going to epic if you choose this route. Know the weather.
life is a lot simpler if you don't have to leave anything at the base of the route.
carry a light headlamp. even if your going to be done by noon.
Camelback type packs are a nice compromise.
Bring 1 quart of water and a filter if your going to need more than two quarts of water.
Practice downclimbing for when you get off route. Make sure you always practice finding the easiest way to go. Always.
For a little glacier crossing at the base of a route you can use you nut tool as a ice axe, especially if you hose clamp it to a carabiner. A sharp rock can work to.
if you hit a chimney with a pack on, hang it with a sling off your belay loop.
carry some tied slings for raps threads (I don't)
space blanket
many time you can climb in your approach shoes.
not sure about a cell phone, they often work in RMNP and the sierras
carry hard candy or my favorite starburst in case you run out of water. Put a pebble under your tongue if you don't have anything else.
Simul climb with the stongest climber going second.
Use a tibloc for simul (haven't tried it yet but it sounds good)
walkie talkies
Start easy and work your way up
be sure about your partner
Place gear so that the rope runs clean as oppossed to where you might need it.
run it out and then place two pieces in one place.
I ussually use a 120 ft rope for simul.
most of all be safe
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jhump
Jan 1, 2003, 10:56 PM
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Why starburst, hard candy, or pebble? Are these for saliva? Saliva will wet your whistle, but you still get a net loss toward dehydration. Just because you're not thirsty does not mean you're not dehydrated. I prefer nothing in my mouth, so I can concentrate on my breathing.
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alpnclmbr1
Jan 2, 2003, 12:21 AM
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pretty much for saliva, I have had my throat get so dry I had a hard time breathing. Mostly as a backup for when I go without any water or run out on a long day. not while I am moving
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