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theboogieclimber
Mar 4, 2010, 3:59 PM
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hey all, was wondering what you guys do to help strengthen antagonistic muscles? i get outdoors usually once a week, workout 3x a week (pushups, a bunch of different ab exercises, supermans) and usually do a weighted hangboard workout twice a week. i have been noticing lately especially that my posture seems to suck real bad, kind of feels like my abs are way stronger than my back and cause my body to kind of slouch forward. been having some elbow pain as well and was wondering if a lack of training antagonistic muscles over the years is starting to catch up with me
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blurricus
Mar 4, 2010, 4:59 PM
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Off the top of my head?
Pronated wrist curls.
Wrist curls with palms facing downward.
Shoulder press.
Tricep dips.
Reverse delt flye.
Bench press.
One legged back extensions.
I also take two strong rubber bands and use them to work the opposing finger tendons.
I think podclimber.com has some podcasts from Eric Horst on training antagonist muscles for climbers.
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bustloose
Mar 4, 2010, 8:30 PM
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i was pretty excited when i saw this post, i figured you wanted to start a thread arguing about training! so disappointed.
i have had discussions with various physio/chiro/trainers about bad posture being due to an over developed back and under developed chest and unbalanced shoulders. i have been assured it's simply due to not trying to have good posture (and very tight pectorals).
for what it's worth, my non-climbing training program has changed and now focuses exclusively on Olympic lifting (squats, cleans), and does not contain any isolation exercises. I've never been stronger, and my posture is better because I've strengthened my lower back and conditioned good functional movement (and i think about having good posture a lot more)
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blurricus
Mar 4, 2010, 8:56 PM
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bustloose wrote: i have had discussions with various physio/chiro/trainers about bad posture being due to an over developed back and under developed chest and unbalanced shoulders.
I would agree with you here. In my personal experience of my OWN body, and other people that I've helped train, there are certain excercises that seem to just force better posture. I think the unbalanced shoulders is a big one. The underdeveloped chest is also quite true, and the two of them in tandem can create really bad posture.
It's amazing that people hardly recognize the posture of actual weight lifters. It's good! It's proper (for the most part).
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bustloose
Mar 4, 2010, 10:25 PM
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you only quoted the first half of that statement! i was saying that i brought it up and was told that it was not due to this imbalance.
i *still* have an over developed back and under developed chest, but now my posture is way better. due in part to the weights i've been doing and what that does for posture, and also from actively thinking about maintaining good posture.
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mr.tastycakes
Mar 5, 2010, 2:00 AM
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bustloose wrote: i was pretty excited when i saw this post, i figured you wanted to start a thread arguing about training! so disappointed.
Don't worry, others will probably be here soon to quibble about the definition of antagonist muscles...
I try to get to the gym once a week and do squats (or a variation, like front squats), and a couple pushing motions (like standing barbell overhead press). I'm in and out of there in 45 minutes. I also do rotator cuff exercises and go jogging a couple times a week. *Anecdotal evidence alert* Since I've started doing rotator cuff work my shoulders have felt great. I do this in addition to climbing 3-4 days a week. My fingers simply couldn't take an additional climbing session, and I think the exercise helps keep my joints healthy and strong, and keeps my weight down.
YMMV.
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mr.tastycakes
Mar 5, 2010, 2:30 AM
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The power of the search function:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=antagonist;#2187320
"The notion of antagonist muscles as commonly used in climbing circles is totally wrong and should be ignored. The triceps are prime movers in elbow extension, and the long head of the triceps is involved in shoulder extension and adduction. These actions are just as common as elbow flexion in climbing. Observe climbing movements and you'll see the triceps in action all the time. I for one reject the idea that the triceps are somehow weak or in need supplemental training for climbers.
I know this is not a popular opinion in the climbing world but pretty much no one who writes about antagonist muscles in the climb world understands the topic, nor have they done any analysis of climbing movement, so we have no reason to believe them. "
fluxus (Doug Hunter, author of SCC)
And here:http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=antagonist;#1486958
And here: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...=antagonist;#1627546
Food for thought.
Edit: the url's seems to take you to fluxus' posts, 'cause i used his username in the search, but read the whole thread as there are other good contributions.
(This post was edited by mr.tastycakes on Mar 5, 2010, 2:37 AM)
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lena_chita
Moderator
Mar 5, 2010, 3:17 PM
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theboogieclimber wrote: hey all, was wondering what you guys do to help strengthen antagonistic muscles? i get outdoors usually once a week, workout 3x a week (pushups, a bunch of different ab exercises, supermans) and usually do a weighted hangboard workout twice a week. i have been noticing lately especially that my posture seems to suck real bad, kind of feels like my abs are way stronger than my back and cause my body to kind of slouch forward. been having some elbow pain as well and was wondering if a lack of training antagonistic muscles over the years is starting to catch up with me
I personally do not like working muscles in isolation, agonist or antagonist. A good weight-lifting regimen works for people but it is not my thing. Yoga seems to fit the bill for me, as a good supplement to climbing that works the body in a different way and incorporates stretching, good posture and alignment. So I do power yoga...
You might need some stretching incorporated in your training, instead of even more tightening and stengthening. I find it hard to believe that over-strong abdominal muscles and weak back is what's causing your slouching. Tight pectoralis muscles could have more of an effect...
The posture thing is just like climbing-specific training. You get more effect on posture if you just consciously make those back/shoulder/neck/abs muscles work to keep your posture good as you go about your day, than you would by doing a set of whatever exercises for a few minutes a day. If you think about it, dancers have good posture not because they do a set of back exercises, but because the keep that posture going as they move.
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PlasticHead
Mar 5, 2010, 3:24 PM
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Registered: Jan 15, 2010
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theboogieclimber wrote: hey all, was wondering what you guys do to help strengthen antagonistic muscles? i get outdoors usually once a week, workout 3x a week (pushups, a bunch of different ab exercises, supermans) and usually do a weighted hangboard workout twice a week. i have been noticing lately especially that my posture seems to suck real bad, kind of feels like my abs are way stronger than my back and cause my body to kind of slouch forward. been having some elbow pain as well and was wondering if a lack of training antagonistic muscles over the years is starting to catch up with me
after a good climbing workout, I like to do pushups as my cooldown. I stretch for a good 10 minutes before the end of my sesh also. An antagonist workout that I do for my fingers is I take a rubber band (preferably one with alot of resistance.) I put rubber band around my fingers and I extend my fingers for a good 20 reps each hand.
It keeps the hand strength balanced.
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headchop
Mar 5, 2010, 3:37 PM
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bustloose wrote: i have had discussions with various physio/chiro/trainers about bad posture being due to an over developed back and under developed chest and unbalanced shoulders. i have been assured it's simply due to not trying to have good posture (and very tight pectorals).
Simply trying to maintain good posture really helps as well.
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blurricus
Mar 8, 2010, 8:23 PM
Post #11 of 11
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mr.tastycakes wrote: The power of the search function:
http://www.nicros.com/archive/archive21.cfm
Along the line of the search function, I meant to post this training by Eric Horst.
My antagonist muscle training isn't solely for climbing, so if you want to skip the tricep dips, feel free. But my shoulders are pretty weak, so I do tricep dips in order to help strengthen them.
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