|
RockGroundMountain
Mar 9, 2010, 8:27 PM
Post #1 of 31
(4891 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 26, 2009
Posts: 15
|
Hi guys! I've been climbing for a while now, and im planning on starting to do some multipitch walls.
So, i wanted to know if the Petzl GriGri could be used as a multipitch belay device. I mean, can i belay a second with the GriGri?
And if it's not possible, would you recommend the Petzl reverso?
Thanks Guys!
|
|
|
|
|
shimanilami
Mar 9, 2010, 8:40 PM
Post #2 of 31
(4872 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043
|
RockGroundMountain wrote: ...can i belay a second with the GriGri?
Yes.
RockGroundMountain wrote: ...would you recommend the Petzl reverso?
Yes.
|
|
|
|
|
patmay81
Mar 9, 2010, 8:41 PM
Post #3 of 31
(4872 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1081
|
absolutely it can be used to belay a second. for longer multipitch, and for multiple seconds, I usually use the atc guide (its lighter, more versatile and still has an autolock). but thats just personal preference.
my grigri is usually limited to solo climb use (occasional rope ascension)
|
|
|
|
|
unrooted
Mar 9, 2010, 8:51 PM
Post #4 of 31
(4858 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 840
|
if you have a gri-gri, and you aren't dying to buy more gear then definitely use your gri-gri. I almost exclusively use mine.
you can clip the gri-gri directly to the anchors and pull the rope just like with an atc-guide or reverso. often times I find it more convenient to belay off of my harness, just make sure you clip the seconds rope to the anchor (or a SOLID piece of gear) about shoulder level or higher so the second won't pull you down-ward if they fall or take.
You probably ought to go with someone experienced to get a full grasp of all this.
|
|
|
|
|
patmay81
Mar 9, 2010, 8:54 PM
Post #5 of 31
(4854 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1081
|
unrooted wrote: make sure you clip the seconds rope to the anchor (or a SOLID piece of gear) about shoulder level or higher so the second won't pull you down-ward if they fall or take.
unrooted wrote: You probably ought to go with someone experienced to get a full grasp of all this.
|
|
|
|
|
james481
Mar 9, 2010, 9:19 PM
Post #6 of 31
(4817 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 201
|
The GriGri will work fine as a multi-pitch belay device, but there are a couple of things you'll want to keep in mind when using it for that purpose:
1) Many multi-pitch climbs require a rappel to get back down. Unlike a traditional tubular belay device (like the Reverso), Rappelling with a GriGri requires a special technique (because you can obviously only load one line in a GriGri). The technique is not particularly difficult to learn, but you should probably be sure you have it mastered before heading up any cliffs.
2) Many multi-pitch routes are climbed on traditional gear (i.e. cams, nuts, etc). Due to the nature of the camming action of a GriGri, it can cause higher forces on your protection than a traditional tubular device. For most easier climbs, this shouldn't be an issue, as the protection should be pretty good, but as the climbing (and protection) becomes thinner, many climbers prefer a tubular device for the load limiting nature of their design.
3) A GriGri is a rather heavy piece of kit, adding several ounces over a tubular device. This doesn't generally bother me when I'm climbing, but can be a factor when considering that many multi-pitch climbs have somewhat long approaches to be hiked. Every extra ounce on your back adds up when factored over several miles of hiking (at least for me).
In terms of a tubular device, pretty much any of the myriad of options out there will work, but the Petzl Reverso and the BD ATC Guide are the most popular options. If you have a chance, try each one and see which you like better, but those two devices in particular are similar enough that either will treat you well.
|
|
|
|
|
unrooted
Mar 10, 2010, 2:20 AM
Post #7 of 31
(4731 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 840
|
I always keep an atc on my harness. I'm always paranoid that I'm going to drop a belay device, and I hate having to rap with a munter hitch, which is something all people should learn.
|
|
|
|
|
johnwesely
Mar 10, 2010, 4:15 AM
Post #8 of 31
(4676 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 5360
|
patmay81 wrote: unrooted wrote: make sure you clip the seconds rope to the anchor (or a SOLID piece of gear) about shoulder level or higher so the second won't pull you down-ward if they fall or take. this is why you redirect through the anchor when belaying off your harness
Which is exactly what he is describing.
|
|
|
|
|
Samiam277
Mar 10, 2010, 5:21 AM
Post #9 of 31
(4647 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2007
Posts: 51
|
The Gri-Gri is fine as a multi-pitch belay device. The only problems I can foresee are the added weight and rapping. I have never done a double rope rap with a Gri-Gri (only single fixed lines), but it is doable. I just use my reverso, which works about the same as a Gri-Gri when it is in autoblock mode, plus it's a lot lighter and easy to rap with
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Mar 10, 2010, 2:40 PM
Post #10 of 31
(4549 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
RockGroundMountain wrote: Hi guys! I've been climbing for a while now, and im planning on starting to do some multipitch walls. So, i wanted to know if the Petzl GriGri could be used as a multipitch belay device. I mean, can i belay a second with the GriGri? And if it's not possible, would you recommend the Petzl reverso? Thanks Guys!
So, you're using the GriGri to belay a leader, but aren't sure if it will hold a second? Interesting. And, you will be belaying a second, implying you will be the leader? It really doesn't sound like a good situation to me.
I believe that the GriGri was originally designed to belay a second, and later folks figured out how to use it for a leader. I could be wrong on that history, hopefully someone else will confirm or deny.
As others have said, the limitations of the device in multipitch are weight and single rapelling. Go with someone with experience.
(This post was edited by bill413 on Mar 10, 2010, 2:41 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
tedman
Mar 10, 2010, 3:22 PM
Post #11 of 31
(4519 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 5, 2007
Posts: 237
|
check out the Trango Cinch. 20-30$ cheaper, lighter, smaller, feeds better. The only thing it dosnt do better than a gri-gri is lower as smoothly.
I use mine all the time for multipitch, works great.
|
|
|
|
|
greatview
Mar 10, 2010, 3:47 PM
Post #12 of 31
(4506 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2010
Posts: 27
|
bill413 wrote: I believe that the GriGri was originally designed to belay a second, and later folks figured out how to use it for a leader. I could be wrong on that history, hopefully someone else will confirm or deny.
The GriGri was designed by Peter Popall as he had his little son belay him quite often and wasnt sure wether the kid could hold any of his falls. tying down his son to the ground and letting him belay with the grigri it was possible without that doubt. This was in 1989, in 1991 the GriGri was launched. P. Popall was technical director at Petzl at the time.
(This post was edited by greatview on Mar 10, 2010, 3:48 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
gmggg
Mar 10, 2010, 3:51 PM
Post #13 of 31
(4498 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 25, 2009
Posts: 2099
|
tedman wrote: check out the Trango Cinch. 20-30$ cheaper, lighter, smaller, feeds better. The only thing it dosnt do better than a gri-gri is lower as smoothly. I use mine all the time for multipitch, works great.
How does that help? The cinch, while it is a great device, will have all of the same limitations as the gri gri and it sounds like the OP already has a gri gri...
Not trashing the cinch, just want to make sure that it is understood that it is an equal option not necessarily a better option.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Mar 10, 2010, 4:06 PM
Post #14 of 31
(4487 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
bill413 wrote: I believe that the GriGri was originally designed to belay a second, and later folks figured out how to use it for a leader. I could be wrong on that history...
You're wrong.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
lena_chita
Moderator
Mar 10, 2010, 4:20 PM
Post #15 of 31
(4467 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087
|
The only problem with using a gri-gri on multipitch climb is that you can't use it with double ropes, and double ropes come in handy on long meandering trad lines. Otherwise, sure, you can use a gri-gri.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Mar 10, 2010, 4:30 PM
Post #16 of 31
(4452 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
lena_chita wrote: The only problem with using a gri-gri on multipitch climb is that you can't use it with double ropes, and double ropes come in handy on long meandering trad lines. Otherwise, sure, you can use a gri-gri.
According to Petzl, because of potentially high impact forces, the Grigri is not intended for belaying leaders on gear. Some climbers who use grigris on gear routes have thought it through, and decided it's ok; others haven't thought about it all.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
greatview
Mar 10, 2010, 4:33 PM
Post #17 of 31
(4446 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 3, 2010
Posts: 27
|
according to petzl? i have never heard or seen that from petzl anywhere ... are those rumours or real facts?
|
|
|
|
|
yokese
Mar 10, 2010, 4:50 PM
Post #18 of 31
(4427 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 18, 2006
Posts: 672
|
greatview wrote: according to petzl? i have never heard or seen that from petzl anywhere ... are those rumours or real facts?
Copied&pasted from the Grigri manual:
Instructions for use
This product is a belay device for
the leader or second on a rope.
It has been developed for indoor
wall climbing or for climbing
on well-protected sport routes
where anchors meet the UIAA
standard. It should not be used
for mountaineering or adventure
climbing.
http://gearguide.co.uk/...a/p/39/download.aspx
Although "adventure climbing" might accept different interpretations, Grigris have been used in many, many, many trad climbs and aid-climbing big walls, though, without catastrophic consequences AFAIK.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Mar 10, 2010, 4:50 PM
Post #19 of 31
(4425 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
greatview wrote: according to petzl? i have never heard or seen that from petzl anywhere ... are those rumours or real facts?
Try reading the manual.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
lena_chita
Moderator
Mar 10, 2010, 5:50 PM
Post #20 of 31
(4399 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087
|
jt512 wrote: lena_chita wrote: The only problem with using a gri-gri on multipitch climb is that you can't use it with double ropes, and double ropes come in handy on long meandering trad lines. Otherwise, sure, you can use a gri-gri. According to Petzl, because of potentially high impact forces, the Grigri is not intended for belaying leaders on gear. Some climbers who use grigris on gear routes have thought it through, and decided it's ok; others haven't thought about it all. Jay
True.
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Mar 10, 2010, 6:56 PM
Post #21 of 31
(4370 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
jt512 wrote: lena_chita wrote: The only problem with using a gri-gri on multipitch climb is that you can't use it with double ropes, and double ropes come in handy on long meandering trad lines. Otherwise, sure, you can use a gri-gri. According to Petzl, because of potentially high impact forces, the Grigri is not intended for belaying leaders on gear. Some climbers who use grigris on gear routes have thought it through, and decided it's ok; others haven't thought about it all. Jay
Generally I don't have a problem with it being used, but that's my personal choice.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Mar 10, 2010, 7:07 PM
Post #22 of 31
(4360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: I believe that the GriGri was originally designed to belay a second, and later folks figured out how to use it for a leader. I could be wrong on that history... You're wrong. Jay
Sorry - by "second" I really was including all TR situations vs. lead belay.
Thanks for the history, greatview.
(This post was edited by bill413 on Mar 10, 2010, 7:08 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
Mar 10, 2010, 7:29 PM
Post #23 of 31
(4337 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
unrooted wrote: I always keep an atc on my harness. I'm always paranoid that I'm going to drop a belay device, and I hate having to rap with a munter hitch, which is something all people should learn.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Mar 10, 2010, 7:29 PM
Post #24 of 31
(4337 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
bill413 wrote: jt512 wrote: bill413 wrote: I believe that the GriGri was originally designed to belay a second, and later folks figured out how to use it for a leader. I could be wrong on that history... You're wrong. Jay Sorry - by "second" I really was including all TR situations vs. lead belay.
Still wrong.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
sspssp
Mar 10, 2010, 10:30 PM
Post #25 of 31
(4284 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 1731
|
gmggg wrote: tedman wrote: check out the Trango Cinch. 20-30$ cheaper, lighter, smaller, feeds better. The only thing it dosnt do better than a gri-gri is lower as smoothly. I use mine all the time for multipitch, works great. How does that help? The cinch, while it is a great device, will have all of the same limitations as the gri gri and it sounds like the OP already has a gri gri... Not trashing the cinch, just want to make sure that it is understood that it is an equal option not necessarily a better option.
No, the cinch does not all have all the same limitations. It is lighter, smaller, feeds better. Now, is it worth buying if you already have a grigri, maybe not if you are poor (but I might still argue the point  )
And kidding aside, lighter is a serious issue for multi-pitch.
Furthermore, for somebody reading this thread who doesn't already own a grigri...
(This post was edited by sspssp on Mar 10, 2010, 10:33 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
