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sethg
Jul 21, 2010, 12:04 AM
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marc801 wrote: And for historical correctness nitpicking accuracy: the "roof" in the name Bonnie's Roof refers to the huge one on the second pitch at the very top of the dihedral. The original line aided out left under that roof and was led by Bonnie Pruden. The roof is not the little 5.8 crux overhang on the first pitch.
What is the source of this historical info, if you don't mind my asking? Williams' guide says Hans Kraus did the second pitch in 1958, six years after he and Prudden did pitch one. He doesn't list Prudden as being there in 1958. I don't have any kind of inside line on the true facts, as it were, but it has always been my understanding that the first roof is THE Bonnie's Roof.
(This post was edited by sethg on Jul 21, 2010, 12:09 AM)
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welle
Jul 21, 2010, 4:37 PM
Post #128 of 241
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johnwesely wrote: marc801 wrote: Key learnings: * route finding can be an issue, even on an obvious 5.8 corner. * part of the belayer's responsibility is point out to the leader when they're doing something questionable, like ignoring gear placements. * you really don't want to be taking big falls in the Gunks - there's just too much to hit. I agree with you one hundred percent. I really should have insisted that he put a piece in. I don't know what I was thinking at the time. I really don't. The subsequent trauma sort of pushed the previous events out of my mind.
I also think that you shouldn't be really beating yourself. If the leader is experienced it's the leader's responsibility to protect her lead. If he chose to run it out maybe he knew better, and it's up to him to deal with consequences. Nothing is worse than your belayer freaking out and psyching you out as well. There is a great quote by Frank Sacherer in the new Grey Dick "Shut-up you chickenshit!" to his belayer pleading to put more pro. It's different of course if the leader is less experienced, or if the belayer is pointing out things out of leader's sight like rope drag, last piece of pro pulling, ropes crossing or getting stuck in crevices...
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jakedatc
Jul 21, 2010, 5:36 PM
Post #129 of 241
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welle wrote: johnwesely wrote: marc801 wrote: Key learnings: * route finding can be an issue, even on an obvious 5.8 corner. * part of the belayer's responsibility is point out to the leader when they're doing something questionable, like ignoring gear placements. * you really don't want to be taking big falls in the Gunks - there's just too much to hit. I agree with you one hundred percent. I really should have insisted that he put a piece in. I don't know what I was thinking at the time. I really don't. The subsequent trauma sort of pushed the previous events out of my mind. I also think that you shouldn't be really beating yourself. If the leader is experienced it's the leader's responsibility to protect her lead. If he chose to run it out maybe he knew better, and it's up to him to deal with consequences. Nothing is worse than your belayer freaking out and psyching you out as well. There is a great quote by Frank Sacherer in the new Grey Dick "Shut-up you chickenshit!" to his belayer pleading to put more pro. It's different of course if the leader is less experienced, or if the belayer is pointing out things out of leader's sight like rope drag, last piece of pro pulling, ropes crossing or getting stuck in crevices...
Yea, As a fairly new trad leader i don't mind a reminder if it is looking sketchy since sometimes when you're focused on climbing you don't really realize how far you've gone. That said, leader has the gear and the responsibility in the end.
how you get lost on Bonnies is beyond me though..
MG's is my favorite .6 so far for sure. extra interesting by headlamp.
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cracklover
Jul 21, 2010, 6:15 PM
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Oh, and after all the exciting posts that came after, I got understandably distracted. So now that I've said my piece on all that other stuff... back to the fun part:
Congrats on the Vulgarian Shockleys ascent!
Cheers!
GO
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johnwesely
Jul 21, 2010, 6:17 PM
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cracklover wrote: Oh, and after all the exciting posts that came after, I got understandably distracted. So now that I've said my piece on all that other stuff... back to the fun part: Congrats on the Vulgarian Shockleys ascent! Cheers! GO
Thank you. I would like to here what RGold has to say. I have heard that he disapproves of such actions now.
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johnwesely
Jul 21, 2010, 6:31 PM
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The Post Gunks Locals Don't Want You To Read. If You Notice That I Have Been Terminated, You Know Why!
I got my first phone call from Ranger Rob while I was waiting for Will to get out of the Doctor's office. My phone was off, so really, I got my first message from Ranger Rob at the the Doctor's. When I tried to call him back, it went to his voice mail, which greeted me with, “You've reached Ranger Rob...” Wow, I thought to myself. This guy answers his phone with his Rockclimbing.com screen name. That is really intense, but come to think of it, so do I. We ended up playing phone tag for the next couple days until we finally got a hold of each other. Rob was going to take me to the Lost City, the holy Mecca of gunks climbing. People would always asked me if I climbed at Lost City, but I would always have to tell them no, now was my chance.
Lost City isn't like the Trapps. The first obvious difference is closely related to the second. Lost City does not have a guidebook. Knowledge of climbs and even how to get to the crag are entirely dependent on knowing somebody who knows somebody. Some people think this is elitist, but it does lead to Lost City's second obvious characteristic. Lost City is completely devoid of the hordes that dominate the Trapps. On a weekday, the Trapps are busier than any Southeast crag on a weekend. Lost City felt like a little slice of home. Outside of the general ambiance, the rock at Lost City is substantially different than the rest of the Gunks. The horizontals that are so prevalent in Trapps are a rare sight indeed at the City. Also, the walls themselves are much much steeper. If the walls at the Trapps look steep, it is only because of an optical illusion generated by all of the roofs. Lost City will put a pump in your forearms unlike anything outside the Red.
I met up with Rob in the TOP SECRET parking lot, and we began our approach to Lost City. The approach is short but quite the step up from the carriage road nonsense. After scrambling up some boulders that put my worn to the foam-midsole sandals to their very limit, we arrived at our first climb. This 5.8 warm up looked like a gimme from the ground, but that was because I was judging it based on my experience at the Trapps. The first lead was Rob's and after a little difficulty with the pure finger crack start, he cruised up the line. On top rope I made it through the finger crack just fine but noticed that the corner above was much much harder than I had anticipated. I was actually starting to get pumped. This was when I noticed another detail about the City, the grades are stiff. I lowered off the top, and Rob asked if there was any climb that I wanted to do.
There was. I only knew about one route at Lost City, but it looked like a doozy. I had seen pictures of Stannard's Roof on SuperTaco when I was preparing for my trip, and the route had stuck with me. The route goes out the largest part of a giant horizontal roof that makes Modern Times look like Shockley's. I came to Lost City with the sole intention of climbing that route, and luckily for me, Rob knew exactly how to get me there. We scrambled back down the scary boulders, down climbing was even worse, and made our way towards Stannard's. It looked even bigger in person. Naturally, I had to pee.
The first hundred or so feet of stannards go at the fairly moderate grade of 5.7 and, except for a few patches of choss, would make quite a nice pitch all on its own. Unlike Modern Times, the moves out on to roof would not be so well protected. A fixed micro nut and a manky micro cam were all that protected the initial crux moves. A sat there for quite a while contemplating these pieces, examining the rusty wires of the nut. However, I couldn't help but be excited by the massive size of this roof. It looked great.
Determined to succeed, I made the first long move to a crimp. As I matched my hands, I hoped that every hold wouldn't be so small. The next hold was bomber horizontal, and I slammed in an equally bomber red Camalot. What a relief. At least I wouldn't be falling onto that nasty wire anymore. A few more core strength testing moves led me to another nice horizontal and an even more bomber Gold Camalot. Only a few more moves to go, I thought to myself. However, I was quite wrong. The Crux of Stannard's is in no way shape or form the actual roof, it is pulling the lip of the roof with the most horrendous rope drag ever experienced my man. The holds are slopey and the feet are non existant. I am still not quite sure how I didn't manage to fall, but somehow, after squirming around as the pump clock ticked, I managed to pull the lip and set up my belay. When I said the crux was pulling the lip I was lying. The real crux is pulling up the remaining slack to belay up the second. That was what really got me sweating.
After Stannard's we made our way over to Lost City Crack, all the way on the other side of the cliff. En
route we passed Persistent, a John Stannard test piece so tough that it took the man himself almost two years to successfully redpoint it. Rob said he had toproped it, but could never imagine leading it. It looked hard, and I agreed. When we finally arrived at our destination, I was quite pleased that LC Crack with well in the shade. Lost City Crack is something that I thought I would never see, a real Gunks splitter crack. After thirty or so feet of 5.7ish climbing, the route takes a hard right into a perfect overhanging tight hands crack splitting a small roof. I couldn't believe my eyes. After the section of tight hands, the crack narrows to splitter ringlocks and then to perfect fingers. Finally the climb pulls another small roof and finishes at a tree next to a giant snake. Great route, sustained and quite different than anything else at the Gunks.
After my success of Lost City Crack, Rob recommended that I try Resistance, which I think is supposed to be Persistent's little brother. Just as our luck would have it, Resistance is even farther down the other end of the cliff than Stannard's roof and was also directly within the sights of the blazing summer sun. We would have to wait until the sun disappeared, but that was fine with me. I needed to eat my lunch, and Resistance didn't exactly look to be very easy. The route follows a thin tips crack on a completely blank face for the first forty or fifty feet and then wanders through roofs to the top.
After about an hour, the sun seemed to be less menacing, so I racked up and started the climb. The sun may have been gone, but the rock was still hot as a skillet. Despite this, I made it through the first twenty five feet just fine. The pro was all small, but solid, nuts and I was feeling fine. Then, the crux hit me. The crack widened and flared into a basketball sized and pebbly pod. Now I was starting to feel the grease. Cranking as hard as I could off a crimped pebble, I stabbed a pin scar in the fingercrack above, brought my foot up into the pod, and cammed it in for my dear life. My position was precarious I couldn't let go with the hand in the pin scar because my right hand, only holding on with the very tip of my finger couldn't hold me by itself. To make matters worse, the pin scar was soaking wet with my sweat. If only I could let go for a second to chalk it up. Instead, it just got wetter and wetter. My last pro was well below my feet. I needed to place something and place it quick. I let go with my right hand just long enough to grab the small nuts off my rack and put them in my mouth. If it would have taken any longer, I would have fallen. I cammed the foot in even harder and grabbed the nuts from my mouth. Desperately I slotted in number four stopper and once again grabbed back on with my right. My left hand was shaking and thoroughly soaked. The nut wasn't confidence inspiring, but it was what I had. I started making my next move, and my nasty, soaking wet left hand slid right out of the slot. I was airborne. After three weeks, I was finally taking my first fall at the Gunks. It felt good. I trammed back up to my highpoint, and after thoroughly chalking up, made a few more moves and placed a nice orange TCU. After a few more off sequence moves, I found myself falling once again. When it rains, it pours, I guess. I trammed back up and, this time, finished the route. It was a route that I definitely wanted to come back to, classic in every single way.
After resistance, Rob got on his project of unknown name and grade. With only one fall, he made it to the top. Despite somewhat chossy rock, this route had excellent moves and superb steep terrain. I would recommend it but wouldn't even know how to go about doing that. Exhausted from the heat and hard climbing, we parted with Lost City, and Rob gave me a ride back to Slime. During the car ride, I found out that Rob really was a Ranger. That made the phone call thing make much more sense.
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johnwesely
Jul 21, 2010, 7:02 PM
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moose_droppings wrote: In reply to: Finally the climb pulls another small roof and finishes at a tree next to a giant snake. I thought that one topped out by a tree next to a large squirrel? 
What do you think happened to the squirrel?
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moose_droppings
Jul 21, 2010, 8:03 PM
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johnwesely wrote: moose_droppings wrote: In reply to: Finally the climb pulls another small roof and finishes at a tree next to a giant snake. I thought that one topped out by a tree next to a large squirrel? What do you think happened to the squirrel?
I just set them up and pitch it out.
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welle
Jul 21, 2010, 8:50 PM
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That's funny, I thought RangerRob didn't climb between Memorial and Labor day weekends...
(This post was edited by welle on Jul 21, 2010, 9:32 PM)
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rangerrob
Jul 21, 2010, 9:19 PM
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Visiting climbers deserve special treatment. Trust me, I was in no way excited about the intense sun. I feel kind of priveleged in a way to have been the one to push John hard enough to finally fall! Granted, if it weren't blazing hot I think he would have styled Resistance. Too bad we didn't hook up anymore, there are plenty of super secret projects I could have put him on. But in the end, it indeed was too hot for me the rest of the time he was here.
I was pretty jealous that John was climbing so well after only a short time here. Jealous that he did routes in a couple of weeks that took me years to get to. But the dude is so freaking tall and skinny. He wasn't far off when he called himself the human string bean.
Glad you had a good trip John, Glad the Gunks could represent. Look forward to hearing the other stuff you did.
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johnwesely
Jul 21, 2010, 9:49 PM
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welle wrote: That's funny, I thought RangerRob didn't climb between Memorial and Labor day weekends...
He told me he didn't climb "hard" between memorial day and labor day.
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johnwesely
Jul 21, 2010, 9:50 PM
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rangerrob wrote: Visiting climbers deserve special treatment. Trust me, I was in no way excited about the intense sun. I feel kind of priveleged in a way to have been the one to push John hard enough to finally fall! Granted, if it weren't blazing hot I think he would have styled Resistance. Too bad we didn't hook up anymore, there are plenty of super secret projects I could have put him on. But in the end, it indeed was too hot for me the rest of the time he was here. I was pretty jealous that John was climbing so well after only a short time here. Jealous that he did routes in a couple of weeks that took me years to get to. But the dude is so freaking tall and skinny. He wasn't far off when he called himself the human string bean. Glad you had a good trip John, Glad the Gunks could represent. Look forward to hearing the other stuff you did.
I wish we could have hooked up again too. It just seemed like every time you could climb, I already had a commitment line up. There is always next time.
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boymeetsrock
Jul 21, 2010, 10:15 PM
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This TR has got my vote for best thread of 2010. Great pace. Excellent content. Many RC avatars.
Good stuff John. Way to make the most of a trip!
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johnwesely
Jul 21, 2010, 10:46 PM
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boymeetsrock wrote: This TR has got my vote for best thread of 2010. Great pace. Excellent content. Many RC avatars. Good stuff John. Way to make the most of a trip!
Thank you.
I would like to use this post as a springboard for some questions.
How is the pace? Is one a day too much?
What about content? Am I too broad or specific? Should the episodes be shorter?
Is there anything anyone would like to hear about that I haven't covered yet?
Thank you.
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boymeetsrock
Jul 21, 2010, 11:01 PM
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I think one a day is a great pace considering that you are covering about a month long trip (right?), and the general readership here isn't checking in all day (though many of us are). You have to balance the pace with the amount of material to be presented.
The amount of content is also good. I think if you draw this out too long you may loose interest. Seems like you are on pace to keep us all baited the whole way through.
You could possibly include spoiler alerts for those of us who may be hoping for the onsite...  Content is always a balance between creating atmosphere and belaboring the point. For the most part you have struck a good balance.
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davidnn5
Jul 21, 2010, 11:08 PM
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Every time I read something about spoilers blowing an onsight, something in my brain rebels. I don't think it's possible for someone with my shit memory to have an onsight blown in that way. You can tell me in excruciating detail every move and piece required for a climb and I'll have forgotten it 3 seconds later.
Re: the TR, I want something climactic at the end. If things didn't work out that way, go ahead and make something up. Maybe a bizarre love triangle between you, Rangerrob and Gmburns. Or that you find out you're really Gblauer's love-child.
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johnwesely
Jul 21, 2010, 11:17 PM
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davidnn5 wrote: Every time I read something about spoilers blowing an onsight, something in my brain rebels. I don't think it's possible for someone with my shit memory to have an onsight blown in that way. You can tell me in excruciating detail every move and piece required for a climb and I'll have forgotten it 3 seconds later. Re: the TR, I want something climactic at the end. If things didn't work out that way, go ahead and make something up. Maybe a bizarre love triangle between you, Rangerrob and Gmburns. Or that you find out you're really Gblauer's love-child.
Don't worry, it all comes together at the end. If you wanted to, you could spoil it yourself.
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jedasmith
Jul 22, 2010, 12:09 AM
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Davidnn5-- I am laughing out loud at the love child comment!! :)
John-- this is Jen-- Gail's friend you so kindly set up Apoplexy for. I am thoroughly enjoying the posts and am glad you are well!
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sungam
Jul 22, 2010, 10:49 AM
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The pace is perfect.
The writing is still great.
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j_ung
Jul 22, 2010, 11:22 AM
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Short approach... no crowds... This "Lost City" sure does sound like a great place to bring a group. Thanks for the beta!
(This post was edited by j_ung on Jul 22, 2010, 11:24 AM)
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rangerrob
Jul 22, 2010, 12:13 PM
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You just have to watch out for the locals who patrol the cliff with sticks and other weapons, scaring away groups of gang topropers.
RR
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j_ung
Jul 22, 2010, 12:40 PM
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It's a group of Navy SEALs.
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