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marcel
Aug 16, 2002, 7:58 PM
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Try a fall while wearing the Swiss Seat! Wow, baby!
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climbsomething
Aug 16, 2002, 8:04 PM
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And here I was, thinking I was original for calling it a Rope Diaper.
Falling? Just weighting it turned my organs to mush!
BLESS the sit harness! *hugs her Momentum*
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marcel
Aug 16, 2002, 8:14 PM
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The diaper, or at least what we called the diaper is slightly different than the Swiss seat. The Swiss seat is tied with a long piece of webbing, for me 20 to 30 feet. The Diaper was made with a tied webbing sling. Here is how you would put it on. You'd take the tied sling place it behind your back then grab the ends in front with one hand. Then you'd reach between your legs and grab the lower of the two webbing straps that went behind your back. You'd then take that webbing that came between your legs and carabiner the two ends your already holding in your hand with the end that has just come between your legs. (3 loops held together with 1 carabiner) Then the rope would clip into the carabiner. If the carabiner was not locking you would use two with opposing gates.
Having worn both the Swiss seat and the diaper I'm not sure which was worse. They both make a guys voice go up a couple of octaves!
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krustyklimber
Aug 17, 2002, 2:57 AM
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ROTFLMAO...
Hillary,
I, and my peers, have been called a lot of things but "Old Fart homies" has got to be the funniest!!!
ROTC... Hmmm...
That explains a lot!
And your organs may have turned to mush... at least yours are all internal!
Have I told you lately how cool it is to have you around here? IT IS!!!
Jeff
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oldandintheway
Aug 17, 2002, 3:19 AM
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OFH I like it! Same sound I make when I mantle these days
To answer the original question, were the good old days good? Based on the responses I'd say YES but thank goodness for progress.
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marcel
Aug 17, 2002, 3:38 AM
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Aaa krusty, you sure is right, that young-n hillary sure is a kick-n da-pants. Don't you agree oldandintheway? Sure, tis nice to have young-n to who will listen to us old farts!
[ This Message was edited by: marcel on 2002-08-16 20:39 ]
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jgill
Aug 17, 2002, 4:36 AM
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The good ol days for me were 1953-1960. You could order pitons, etc. from a Swiss mail order house, and you could buy gear in Colorado at Holubars, in Boulder. My first rope was manilla, and my second was army surplus white nylon. A few years later Goldline appeared on the scene. My first climbing shoes = JCHiggins work boots with red lug rubber soles. Speaking of swamis, I was in camp the day Chouinard and Kamps came down from an attempt on the north face of the Crooked Thumb on Teewinot. It was rotten going and a lot of tenuous aid. High up Yvon pulled out a piton and soared a huge distance past the startled Kamps in a perfect swan dive, far out from the overhanging wall. There was so much gear in that Kamps hardly felt the impact. It was goldline and the stretch was a wonderful thing. Yvon wore a simple swami and easily survived the fall.
When you speak of the obsolete equipment and thank modern technology for all it has given us, don't forget the other side of the coin: the magnificant feeling of adventure of that era. Would you go to see Indiana Jones if he was surrounded by James Bond gear? Those were exciting times.
Is it possible that there is anyone out there in rc.com cyberspace whose rock climbing started before 1950? Love to hear from you.
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jmlangford
Aug 17, 2002, 4:51 AM
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Here is a pic my dad took in the late fifties. (L to R)Ken Weeks, Yvon Chouinard, and John Gill). they were clowning around on the steps of the Jenny Lake Ranger Station.
Thanks for your input John, that Chouinard story was something!
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marcel
Aug 18, 2002, 3:41 AM
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Gosh that was fun to read what jgill had to write! I think he is right about the adventure. I'm sure like Mr. Gill, i enjoy climbing as much or more than I did in the mid 60's when I started to climb, but I sure don't feel as adventures as I use to. Is that maybe because climbing has become main steam enough that climbers no longer feel as if they are out there on the fringe? I know the general public use to look at climbers as total lunatics.
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climbsomething
Aug 18, 2002, 1:19 PM
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*feels some Sally Field coming on* You like me! You really like me!
*blush*
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climbsomething
Aug 18, 2002, 1:23 PM
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And, as always, cool stories from jgill. We love it when you share!
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jmlangford
Aug 18, 2002, 6:40 PM
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In 1957, my dad was a climbing ranger at the Jenny Lake Ranger Station. Hotshot climbers would come into the station looking for a partner. One guy came in and asked dad to take him up a climb, I am not sure what route it was. They got up to the crux which my dad was going to lead. They were about 800' up. The guy sat down on a ledge and put the belay around his waist(common practice in those days). Dad started climbing and could not find any place for his pitons. He was soon out of sight of his belayer so the belayer didn't know that dad hadn't placed any pitons. The higher dad got, the more he figured he should just keep climbing up because downclimbing the overhang was out of the question. He ended up getting to the end of his 120' rope and HAD to stop. Problem was, there was no place to anchor a belay either. He ended up setting a small knifeblade in a shallow crack to make it 'look' like he was anchored. He told his partner to climb on. By the time the partner got up to his belay 'anchor', he was fuming! "Go@##@$@%#it! Jim! You could have gotten us both killed! !#@!@$!!%$!@!#@%$" this was after he realized that a fall by either one of them could ahve gotten them both killed. My dad kinda laughed it off but the dude never asked him to be his partner again! The thing was, there was nothing else my dad could have done!
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k9rocko
Aug 18, 2002, 7:18 PM
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This thread is great. I was on the Grand just a couple of days ago....... (some new pics on my profile)
My partner and I met George who is still doing this in his 60s.Judging from this thread, that doesn't seem unusual.... but I have to say 'hats off to you guys/gals' for getting it started (but most of all keeping it going)
The best part was to hear George call us cheaters for using cams. I didn't take offense, because I liked watching him toss a runner over a boulder and belay using a munter hitch.... no fancy equalized anchor, etc. He was nothing but fun to be around. I can only hope we meet again.
I think I only saw him on belay only once or twice.
Again, I am most impressed you guys/gals are still willing to show us 'yunguns' how to do it right (simple = more efficiently).
jmlangford, WOW on the pictures. I am very impressed. You are lucky to have saved the treasures that your father collected.
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marcel
Aug 19, 2002, 2:14 AM
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k9rocko you are right. Jody is extra luck to have all the cool photos his dad passed onto him. Maybe someday our kids will dig our old photos and slides as much as Jody digs his fathers.
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jmlangford
Aug 19, 2002, 3:05 AM
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Thanks, you guys. I am indeed blessed. The real treat is that he is still with us and goes climbing once in a while. i think that all of us here are very fortunate to have one of my dad's climbing partner's from the fifties, John Gill, actively participating in these forums. Computers still scare my dad.
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marcel
Aug 22, 2002, 3:18 PM
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Just shamelessly trying to put this on the top in hope that some more old time climbers will post the memories. Or, that some of you younger climbers will make comments or ask questions. Hey thanks!
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polarwid
Dec 17, 2002, 9:17 PM
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[small]This topic was moved to the Climbing History & Trivia forum by polarwid[/small]
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dpickard
Dec 17, 2002, 9:28 PM
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The 1972 Chouinard Catalog Online
http://www.climbaz.com/chouinard72/chouinard.html
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marcel
Dec 18, 2002, 4:12 PM
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Thanks for the cool link golgo13! It was fun looking over the old Chouinard catalog!
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nimo
Dec 18, 2002, 5:39 PM
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Wow I love all the old stores. I am younger than most of you “old timers” but I learned the same way minus the pins. I started climbing at about 9 or 10 and learned the old school methods. My teacher maid me learn rope management and knots before we could climb. We started with hip belays and webbing harnesses, we had to know how to use the bare essentials in case something ever happened and I had no money for gear. I climbed with passive gear and maid some of my pro to start out, machine nuts and webbing with knots. I still love the adventure aspect of climbing and with the aria I am in it is still prevalent. I can also relate to walking into a climbing shop and seeing some of my gear on the wall or in the display cases marked “Historical”. Some of that old gear is great and there is nothing like it. Crack-N-Up’s great for aid especially before the beaks came on the market. Tom if you ever want yours to have a new home let me know or if you know of anyone willing to part with theirs? I think it is important for climbers today to keep that scene of adventure in the sport. I know there are others out their who are keeping that part of climbing alive and teaching others and am grateful. Everyone should know the “old ways” you never know when you may need to get your self out of a jam. I think one of the things I love the most about our heritage is the willing ness to imagine something and then create a way to achieve it. This goes for climbs as well as gear. How great is it that Tom has his own line of cams, keeps with the climbing tradition that we are only limited by our dreams and imaginations. I hope climbers will always continue to create new gear and dreams as those who came before us did.
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shortfatoldguy
Dec 18, 2002, 6:26 PM
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Wow, thanks for reviving this thread! I'm new to the list and very glad it showed up again.
Yes! I had RRs in the mid-seventies. And (PDX climbers...) I recently went to Broughton's and redid Classic Crack in my 5.10s, after twenty-something years. The amusing thing was that it's gotten so polished over the years that it wasn't much easier. (And I *utterly* refuse to believe that my age had anything to do with it.)
A couple of years ago, after returning home to Portland, I walked up Hood, just for old time's sake. On the dog route, staying to the side of the huge rope teams, I was calmly passed by a truly ancient gentleman wearing floppy hiking boots, jeans, a ratty old parka, and his wood axe stuck under his pack. With his hands in his pockets. Smiling through his long, grey beard. Man had some kind of zen-master presence. Spooky but inspirational.
Thanks again for this thread.
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marcel
Dec 18, 2002, 7:10 PM
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I agree with you Nimo, that's it's good to learn many of the old tricks. A body rap has saved me on more than one occasion.
Shortfatoldguy isn't it fun to run in to old farts that are older than we are! I was lucky enough to climb in Italy last summer and to my delight I ran into a ton of seniors climbing, more than I've ever seen in the States. I even talked to an 85 year old lady who was doing a ferrata.
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hugepedro
Dec 18, 2002, 7:34 PM
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Fun Thread!
I'm not much of an old timer, got my start mountaineering in 1983. But, my inspiration for climbing, my Grandfather, was an old timer. I've got his old 10 pointers that look like they are hand forged, and a wooden shaft ax (a Stubai, I think). My brother and I used Grandpa's wooden shaft axes on our first Cascade climb. Talk of that old REI with the creaky wooden floors certainly brings back memories. I can still remember the smell of that place. That smell always meant anticipation of adventure to me. I used to get lost in there for hours.
I have a couple pics of Gramps and Pete Schoening climbing Rainier. I'll have to see if I can dig them up and post them.
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shortfatoldguy
Dec 18, 2002, 7:40 PM
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Marcel, yes. One of my regular partners was on Sardinia last fall and climbed with a guy in his sixties who was cranking .12s--and started late in life. Makes me feel young.
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