I think we can all agree that the Mt house is a nice building. However it's carved into the side of the mountain and as such negates the preservationist legacy of AK smiley. But, to be honest it's their land and they can do what they want but don't call yourself a preservationist and a "save the ridger" while your building hotels, spas, 2 visitor centers, golf courses, the 12 or so houses next to the mt house, a fire company, getting paid $25,000 by the city of ny to drill a tunnel through your lands, clear cut the mountain etc, etc etc... Yeah the mountain house is from 1870's and the golf course is from 1880's and the aqueduct is from 1907 and the visitor center is 1970's and the new vc and spa is from a few years back but it keeps growing and thats development, not preservation...

Hey photoguy190,

The preserve has been the Plaintiff in every case against it's neighbors. I had hoped that the above articles would be interesting from a historical standpoint. As I stated before as we get more docs and decisions we will post them here and on our Facebook page which is in the works. You are right to want to see both sides as that's the only way to see the whole story. Thanks for your interest.

The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association

I don't think it is kent.. kent posted up on Gunks.com and has said it was not him. Kent at least has the balls to put his name behind what he says. I think his tactics are stupid and self defeating but i'll at least respect that he doesn't hide behind a fake entity

Hey photoguy190,

The preserve has been the Plaintiff in every case against it's neighbors. I had hoped that the above articles would be interesting from a historical standpoint. As I stated before as we get more docs and decisions we will post them here and on our Facebook page which is in the works. You are right to want to see both sides as that's the only way to see the whole story. Thanks for your interest.

The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association

I think we can all agree that the Mt house is a nice building. However it's carved into the side of the mountain and as such negates the preservationist legacy of AK smiley. But, to be honest it's their land and they can do what they want but don't call yourself a preservationist and a "save the ridger" while your building hotels, spas, 2 visitor centers, golf courses, the 12 or so houses next to the mt house, a fire company, getting paid $25,000 by the city of ny to drill a tunnel through your lands, clear cut the mountain etc, etc etc...

Hey photoguy190,

The preserve has been the Plaintiff in every case against it's neighbors...

]I think we can all agree that the Mt house is a nice building.

But, to be honest it's their land and they can do what they want

clear cut the mountain etc, etc etc...

Hey Jakedatc,

Did you read the three articles we posted? Tell me what you think ok. Thanks

The Mohonk Preserve Neighbors Association

Post the names of your President, vice president, Mailing address and phone number where your 'association" can be reached.

Evasion of a simple, direct question is one of Kent's hallmarks: he will 'reply' so you can't accuse him of ignoring you, but that 'reply' meanders off into whatever direction he feels like prattling on about.

That, combined with the auto-reply, and the escalation of outrage for not following his direction, the elision into property values/taxes, the flips between uber-friendly and hostile: clearly Kent. Don't be fooled by his denial - that's kindergarten stuff.

I asked a similar, simple direct question early on in the Gunks version of this. The 'moderation' there is ill-advised, so I will ask it again here: how many members does your group claim? (hint: the answer should be an integer). How many climbers support you, as you suggest there are so many above? (again, an integer will suffice).

Further along the lines of legitimacy: are you licensed to provide the services you claim? (hint: yes, or no). Or are they just hooks with bait on them?

Coppertone asked: does your request to stop 'donating' cover day and yearly passes, or just donations? The actions you request of climbers negatively impact the local economy (and thus property values); how do you reconcile that with your aim?

Last, in the previous iteration of your lunacy, you baited? bribed? hijacked? climbers to join your revolution against zoning laws in Gardiner (to protect your imaginary profit); the end result was that climbers are now banned from 50' of the Nears. Why or how do you expect climbers to back you now?

Looking forward to more non-answers,
Julie

The preserve has been the Plaintiff in every case against it's neighbors.

3. The MPNA troll seems to me to be founded on a fundamental contradiction:
<snip>

Next, we are asked to withhold support for the Preserve if it wins certain unspecified cases. But if the truth, as established by the court, is that the Preserve legally owns the land in question and the "neighbors" do not, then the Preserve's actions seem to be justified and the neighbors illegal claims to the land become the proper subject for condemnation.

You can't rely on court judgments against the Preserve (actually, not against the Preserve) as grounds for condemnation and then go on to ask for more condemnation from rulings supporting the Preserve.

3. The MPNA troll seems to me to be founded on a fundamental contradiction:

First come references to adverse court rulings as evidence of the Preserve's misdeeds. Such references are only of value if one believes the courts are capable of discerning the truth, so it seems that assumption is a given in this situation.

Next, we are asked to withhold support for the Preserve if it wins certain unspecified cases. But if the truth, as established by the court, is that the Preserve legally owns the land in question and the "neighbors" do not, then the Preserve's actions seem to be justified and the neighbors illegal claims to the land become the proper subject for condemnation.

You can't rely on court judgments against the Preserve (actually, not against the Preserve) as grounds for condemnation and then go on to ask for more condemnation from rulings supporting the Preserve.

I thought MPNA was saying that if the ruling is *against* the Preserve, that would show that they are continuing to attempt to steal land from their neighbors, and the courts are slapping their hand.

...In the current case, MP is the plaintiff (the one doing the suing) in an evil, fraudulent land grab attempt. So if the court rules against the MP, then we should stop supporting them as they've been shown as evil.

If the court rules in favor of the MP, then MPNA can say, see, they're continuing their pattern of legal abuse against their neighbors, and that's evil, so we should stop supporting them...

I thought MPNA was saying that if the ruling is *against* the Preserve, that would show that they are continuing to attempt to steal land from their neighbors, and the courts are slapping their hand.

If you go to this website:

http://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/webcivil/FCASSearch

you can search for lawsuits filed in all Counties of the State of New York. If you go to "party search" and enter "Mohonk Preserve" as the plaintiff, exactly one current case appears:


Court: Ulster Civil Supreme
Index Number: 002747/2009
Upstate Index Number: 09-2747
Case Name: MOHONK PRESERVE, INC. vs. ULLRICH, CHRISTOPHER E., SARAH C.EMOND,
Case Type: Other Real Property
Track: Standard
RJI Filed: 08/31/2009
Upstate RJI Number: 55-09-01628
Date NOI Due:
NOI Filed: 03/02/2010
Disposition Deadline: 06/03/2011
Disposition Date:
Calendar Number: 55-09-01628
Jury Status: Non-Jury
Justice Name: HON. MARY M. WORK

I think it would be interesting to get more information about this particular lawsuit. Perhaps MPNA or Kent can bring us up to speed?

Curt

That's one Curt, but there is one other. The one you cited goes to trial sometime this fall. The trial for the other case is already over and a decision is pending.

I know little about either case and so cannot responsibly comment until decisions are issued.

Actually chadnsc what I said was please look at the information presented here, become familiar with it if you want, we will post outcomes of current lawsuits where the Mohonk Preserve is suing their neighbors, and in general just be an informed consumer. If you want to donate to them after reading the outcome of the lawsuits, that is your business. The MPNA would like to thank the many climbers who continue to support us.

Actually Mo you asked us as climber (since according to you we make up a large part of their funding) to stop donating to the Mohonk Preserve if the lawsuit didn't turn out the way you want it to.