I've gotten conflicting reports from various people, and though I've been through Freedom of the Hills and both Leubben and Long's anchor books I still want some ideas on this: what do you do when you have a great nut placement in a horizontal (without other clear options for placement), but the length of the wire cable puts the carabiner right on the edge of the rock? At first I thought I would just girth hitch the wire, but the cable-on-nylon feels wrong. Advice on the subject varies from "might hold" to "it will instantly fail":

http://www.paci.com.au/...ched_slings_2002.pdf
http://www.tradgirl.com/..._3.htm#girth_hitches

Doubling it through seems to be a bit better, but still a big reduction in strength, and gives you half the length to work with. What about a bowline or another knot? Should you cinch tight to the cable, or leave some play when using other knots?

Whats the verdict on slinging the nut like it were a chockstone? You'd need a longer sling to make it clear the edge, but it seems reasonable. I could, however, see the sling getting wedged between the rock and the nut, which could mean some fun for your second (and likely a trashed sling).

I chose "STFU Noob You're gonna die" because I don't think any of your options are any good. I would clip an edge loaded biner before I would try attaching any kind of soft good directly to the wire with any type of knot/hitch. I don't think that slinging the head of the nut is a great idea because the sling could come off the nut and pull out if the nut isn't set extremely well.

The correct answer has already been mentioned, extend the nut with another nut.

You could use two nuts, pass the heads of each through the other's loop. This is in essence girth hitching the nuts together. Just clip the lower wire as normal.(I believe there is some similar configuration in FOTH even)

Or, you could find a better placement. Or maybe a different piece? A slung hex with longer cord? What size nut?

So, you are suggesting girth hitching the cables of the nuts together? Or am I not understanding this?

I'd have to think that would trash your cables the fast way. I guess it just gives you a good incentive to not fall or weight that placement.

Can you get nuts reslung on new cable? I don't know if I'd ever feel good about a non-factory swage, though.

You could use two nuts, pass the heads of each through the other's loop. This is in essence girth hitching the nuts together. Just clip the lower wire as normal.(I believe there is some similar configuration in FOTH even)

I would clip an edge loaded biner before I would try attaching any kind of soft good directly to the wire with any type of knot/hitch.

Can you get nuts reslung on new cable? I don't know if I'd ever feel good about a non-factory swage, though.

Guess I need to re-read FOTH...also, any testing for cable-on-cable loading? Intuitively seems better than cable on nylon though.

Seems like bad juju to me. Not too many tests of edge-loading. Youtube videos I found put it down around the same strength as girth-hitching with a sling, but seems like it would vary more, and edge loading on the gate may reduce the strength even more.

Can you resling a nut on new cable for less than $8 (cost of a new nut)?

Guess I need to re-read FOTH...also, any testing for cable-on-cable loading? Intuitively seems better than cable on nylon though.


Seems like bad juju to me. Not too many tests of edge-loading. Youtube videos I found put it down around the same strength as girth-hitching with a sling, but seems like it would vary more, and edge loading on the gate may reduce the strength even more.

Can you resling a nut on new cable for less than $8 (cost of a new nut)?

Yes.



Perhaps depending on the likelihood and severity of the fall.



Why not?

Haven't seen any testing on it, but there is no reason the cable would be weakened considerably (I'd guess not more than maybe 20%).

Seems like bad juju to me. Not too many tests of edge-loading. Youtube videos I found put it down around the same strength as girth-hitching with a sling, but seems like it would vary more, and edge loading on the gate may reduce the strength even more.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, I'm certainly not advocating using an edge loaded biner. I'm only saying that if my only two options were to use an edge loaded biner or to girth hitch the wire, I wouldn't take the time to girth hitch the wire. I wouldn't want to fall on either though.

Can you resling a nut on new cable for less than $8 (cost of a new nut)?

Yes, if you have the tools, it's less than a dollar.

I've used a compression swage tool and swaged cables before (for removing stakes driven into the ground) and the results are super variable. I've always assumed the factory had worked out the variability or pull tested them or something.

But as was mentioned, getting them re-swaged, and likely shipped, and going without in the meantime is not likely to be worth it compared to simple replacement.

Double an old-style nylon sling and pass it through the loop of the nut. Clip both strands (make it a locker if it makes you more comfortable). Bomber.

This is super armchair, but if Spectra gets about 30% strength loss from the sharp angles of girth-hitching (http://www.rockclimbing.com/...h%20spectra;#1473155), I'd think cable would be less flexible and should lose more.

So you would just leave it?

Yeah, got (access to) the tools, but no way am I falling on one of my own swages. Most of them hold...

I have a hard time imagining what it was that I would have done wrong. The gear belongs to a friend of mine who's an engineer, and he was of the opinion that the swages on climbing gear were done with a hydraulic press rather than the bolt-cutter style crimper we were using. He also thought that contamination of the cable with some kind of lubricant could be a factor. We couldn't see anything different about the ones that failed (3 out of 30-ish).

Has no one else noticed the humor in the title?

Don't blow the signal to noise man! We're supposed to be humorless now.

I have a hard time imagining what it was that I would have done wrong. The gear belongs to a friend of mine who's an engineer, and he was of the opinion that the swages on climbing gear were done with a hydraulic press rather than the bolt-cutter style crimper we were using. He also thought that contamination of the cable with some kind of lubricant could be a factor. We couldn't see anything different about the ones that failed (3 out of 30-ish).