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curt
Aug 17, 2010, 5:31 PM
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camhead wrote: I've been on the site for 9, so I have seen it in all of its evolutionary stages. Gotta say that its present condition right now is terrible in terms of moderation, navigation, photos, routes, and layout.
What's much better now, however, is that the site is not continually crashing and down/unavailable.
camhead wrote: Far and away the biggest plus from this site is the people that I have met through it. Met some very good friends and excellent climbing partners. This site is not as gumby as people think it is once you get below the surface.
Agreed.
Curt
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cracklover
Aug 17, 2010, 5:35 PM
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See Curt's post ^^^
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Aug 17, 2010, 5:35 PM)
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camhead
Aug 17, 2010, 5:36 PM
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cracklover wrote: See Curt's post ^^^ GO
Definitely, this is true. In all my negativity I forgot the frequent crashes of a few years ago.
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 17, 2010, 5:43 PM
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camhead wrote: cracklover wrote: See Curt's post ^^^ GO Definitely, this is true. In all my negativity I forgot the frequent crashes of a few years ago.
I do miss the old design, though (no, not the monkey experiment  )
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camhead
Aug 17, 2010, 5:46 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: camhead wrote: cracklover wrote: See Curt's post ^^^ GO Definitely, this is true. In all my negativity I forgot the frequent crashes of a few years ago. I do miss the old design, though (no, not the monkey experiment )
sideways vag4lyfe!
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macherry
Aug 17, 2010, 5:47 PM
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curt wrote: camhead wrote: I've been on the site for 9, so I have seen it in all of its evolutionary stages. Gotta say that its present condition right now is terrible in terms of moderation, navigation, photos, routes, and layout. What's much better now, however, is that the site is not continually crashing and down/unavailable. camhead wrote: Far and away the biggest plus from this site is the people that I have met through it. Met some very good friends and excellent climbing partners. This site is not as gumby as people think it is once you get below the surface. Agreed. Curt
make that +2. met some great folks, also a few crazies. i've been climbing about 8 years. i don't have the experience to give advice, but i've pitched in on a few gear reviews..
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 17, 2010, 5:55 PM
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camhead wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: camhead wrote: cracklover wrote: See Curt's post ^^^ GO Definitely, this is true. In all my negativity I forgot the frequent crashes of a few years ago. I do miss the old design, though (no, not the monkey experiment ) sideways vag4lyfe!
damn straight!
edit: to fix cheesetit!
(This post was edited by blueeyedclimber on Aug 17, 2010, 5:56 PM)
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gmggg
Aug 17, 2010, 6:04 PM
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Did anyone stop to consider that the noise is the signal?
Consider your minds blown.
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gmggg
Aug 17, 2010, 6:45 PM
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cracklover wrote: gmggg wrote: Did anyone stop to consider that the noise is the signal? Consider your minds blown. That's the trouble in a nutshell. Some folks like their signal as noisy as possible. Kids these days with their "music". Get off my lawn! Oh wait, this is *your* lawn now. Weird, I could have sworn it used to be mine. Okay, don't hurt me, just let me get my walker and I'll be moseying on. G 
Meh. I don't think it boils down to that. I'm sure that someone has done demographic research for this site and that some study of that would show little positive correlation between age and "constructive commenting".
As far as I've seen, the most butthurtz users are the teenage to early 20's n00bs who get chewed out for general inanity.
Genuine ignorance of climbing seems to be handled pretty well in the majority of situations.
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cracklover
Aug 17, 2010, 7:19 PM
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gmggg wrote: cracklover wrote: gmggg wrote: Did anyone stop to consider that the noise is the signal? Consider your minds blown. That's the trouble in a nutshell. Some folks like their signal as noisy as possible. Kids these days with their "music". Get off my lawn! Oh wait, this is *your* lawn now. Weird, I could have sworn it used to be mine. Okay, don't hurt me, just let me get my walker and I'll be moseying on. G Meh. I don't think it boils down to that. I'm sure that someone has done demographic research for this site and that some study of that would show little positive correlation between age and "constructive commenting". As far as I've seen, the most butthurtz users are the teenage to early 20's n00bs who get chewed out for general inanity. Genuine ignorance of climbing seems to be handled pretty well in the majority of situations.
I think you're mistaken. I don't think it's mostly the ignorant being beaten down by the experienced here. If anything, it's more the other way around.
Most of those users, (particularly older ones) who care about content don't get 'butthurtz' when the noise gets high. They just leave.
GO
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jt512
Aug 17, 2010, 7:23 PM
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cracklover wrote: I think you're mistaken. I don't think it's mostly the ignorant being beaten down by the experienced here. If anything, it's more the other way around.
I liked that so much I just had to quote it.
Jay
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gmggg
Aug 17, 2010, 7:34 PM
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cracklover wrote: gmggg wrote: cracklover wrote: gmggg wrote: Did anyone stop to consider that the noise is the signal? Consider your minds blown. That's the trouble in a nutshell. Some folks like their signal as noisy as possible. Kids these days with their "music". Get off my lawn! Oh wait, this is *your* lawn now. Weird, I could have sworn it used to be mine. Okay, don't hurt me, just let me get my walker and I'll be moseying on. G Meh. I don't think it boils down to that. I'm sure that someone has done demographic research for this site and that some study of that would show little positive correlation between age and "constructive commenting". As far as I've seen, the most butthurtz users are the teenage to early 20's n00bs who get chewed out for general inanity. Genuine ignorance of climbing seems to be handled pretty well in the majority of situations. I think you're mistaken. I don't think it's mostly the ignorant being beaten down by the experienced here. If anything, it's more the other way around. Most of those users, (particularly older ones) who care about content don't get 'butthurtz' when the noise gets high. They just leave. GO
I think you misunderstood. I was pointing out the difference between inanity and general ignorance and the types of responses they engender. There is nothing wrong with ignorance (unless it's willful).
My point was that the questions of the ignorant, or uninformed if you like, are treated with a degree of respect and that inane, or moronic if you like, questions are most often not.
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qwert
Aug 17, 2010, 8:02 PM
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I am climbing since, i dont know, probably ten years? maybe 9, maybe 11 ...
and i just checked: I have been more or less active on this site since over 6 years.
My signal to noise ratio?
dont know either.
also that hugely depends on what you would consider noise. There are many stupid (not to say retarded) questions, on which to only usefull answers are of the "U R gunna dye" or "fuck off" variety. With some questions i simply do no see any value whatsoever in providing any well worded reply.
But other than that (and outside of the campground) i try to give a usefull reply, if i bother to reply. I am not always successfull, but i think i try.
And if something really interests me, or for whatever else reason warrants a thought out reply from me, then i might just do it. But that does not happen that often.
But also some of the stuff in campground cant really be considered noise. Sure, discussions about computers or science are not really about rockclimbing, but i often got (or sometimes maybe even provided) good information from such threads.
The main problems i see are the following:
- Idiots who are to lazy/ stupid to even get the basics.
How hard can it be to read a book and do a course first?
Also many folks totally lack any understanding of the fact that lifting your ass more than 2 meters above the ground does indeed pose some serious dangers if you are not taking care.
those folks never start any usefull threads, and thus never generate usefull answers
- Thin skinned people.
These are the people who do not understand the "tone" here at all. Mostly those seem to be the people who are new to the internet.
those seem to leave fast. some of those might have been really cool and knowledgeable people.
- The "assholes"
Personally i do not have a problem with them. I have been in the internet long enough to know how to handle "discussion". so i simply read over the bad parts, and get straight to their (sometimes availble) knowledge.
But many people do not seem to get so far, and simply ignore them/ their points, just because they started their reply in a sarcastic, or sometimes even just matching tone.
sometimes one maybe simply shouldnt post at all.
so my ratio?
50/50?
but mostly i am just Zee strange German and hope noone will notice my crap spelling
also i suck at long and good replys, because without any structure planned beforehand, my posts tend to get rahter confusing.h
qwert
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 18, 2010, 3:01 PM
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Given the continued drama, I would like to keep this thread going. I have complained about lack of interesting content on here before. Whenever I think of something that might spur debate or discussion I post it. I know there are a few others like me (i.e. cracklover, acorneau, etc.) Although there are some decent climbers among us, we are not the ground breakers or pioneers. We are just regular climbers who try to get out whenever we can.
Why is good discussion on here so scarce? Is it because our users are too global, lacking any clear connection. Are we not specific enough, as far as discipline and geographic area? What?
Josh
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atg200
Aug 18, 2010, 3:29 PM
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dingus
Aug 18, 2010, 3:46 PM
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jt512 wrote: curt wrote: jt512 wrote: skiclimb wrote: curt wrote: skiclimb wrote: I do occasionally troll Curt and bouldering..just for kicks..(secretly i am impressed by good bouldering) SHH...thats a secret Dammit. I knew it.  Curt Sumbitch... Still though it's the kind of impressed you can get by a person who does any freakish rediculous made up activity unusually well. .. like a guy who can disassemble an M-16 in 3 seconds or whatever..or a person who can tell you the MLB stats of some minor leaguer who got called up for 2 weeks 27 years ago. Impressive but pointless.. Bouldering: Finding the hardest way up the smallest rocks.¹ Jay ¹ Paraphrased from a post by Dingus on rec.climbing a long time ago. Which is a paraphrase of Yvon Chouinard from the 1960s: "Bouldering is the hardest way of going nowhere." Curt Dingus's version is funnier.
Leave me out of it.
DMT
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Dip
Aug 18, 2010, 3:50 PM
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In reply to: the URL collects every idiot that wants to post about climbing.
+1.
I found this site before i ever touched skin to rock. I'm not trying to call myself an idiot, but when all you have to do is type that address in and this comes up, well, you're gonna get a lot of riff raff.
Maybe you have to take that with a grain of salt though. It is the internet after all, there's going to be idiots.
There was a thread a little bit ago discussing the comparisons between this site and MP and supertopo. Are the discussions really any more enlightened over there? i read MP a lot, and i've seen some dumb shit there too. Maybe not the same level of flaming that sometimes takes place over here, but the stupid threads and comments still exist.
I think no matter what site you go to, you're going to get retarded topics and retarded posts, you just have to sift through the bad stuff to find the good.
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dingus
Aug 18, 2010, 3:52 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Why is good discussion on here so scarce? Is it because our users are too global, lacking any clear connection. Are we not specific enough, as far as discipline and geographic area? What? Josh
Its very simple - there are better conversations elsewhere.
Like here:
supertopo.com
DMT
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notapplicable
Aug 18, 2010, 4:07 PM
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First and foremost, I would just like to say that I have learned a lot from the discussions on this site, some I've participated in and some I've just lurked. The signal to noise ratio may be low, but the signal is there.
I've been climbing 6-7 years and active on here for right at 4 years. I've climbed pretty consistently over that time, with years 4 and 5 being the slowest. This last 8 months I've been climbing a lot, which has translated in to much less posting.
As far as my own signal noise....well, it comes and goes. I mostly post in Scummunity but sometimes an interesting thread will pop up and I'll get on a cycle of posting in the climbing forums. Maybe 10% signal / 90% noise.
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Aug 18, 2010, 4:14 PM)
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bandycoot
Aug 18, 2010, 4:08 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Why is good discussion on here so scarce? Is it because our users are too global, lacking any clear connection. Are we not specific enough, as far as discipline and geographic area? What? Josh
I find it hard to believe that good discussion here is due to geographic distribution of users. I think it has to do with flamefests, ignorance, egos, trolls, and much much more.
I've been climbing for 11 years and have been pushing my limits for every one of them. The majority of my posts these days are "signal", but they're few and far between.
I used to post here more often. As I've improved with my climbing, so has the quality of my posts. I try to limit myself to primarily helpful constructive posts but even then I've been told that what I have to say is the "worst advice" someone has ever heard, which was ridiculous. While I took no offense, it's those kind of things that make you realize that taking the time to contribute is a waste of time.
The noise has grown so deafening, that those who seek a forum for decent discussion simply fade to the background and eventually disappear. This is why constructive discussion is lacking on this site.
I remember a while ago when almost the entire front page was almost exclusively trolls, bad enough that they weren't even funny. I stopped checking the site for quite a while. Good trolls are entertainment, but idiots posting for attention should get deleted. That's just my opinion though... It's obvious when it happens, but people just feed the trolls.
However, that's a characteristic of the internet. We can all theorize how to improve the site, but the reality is that the detatched impersonal and sometimes anonymous posting found in forums leads to more noise than signal. As a result, quality posters are lost. Is this a bad thing? Who knows. Maybe it's just a thing. I know that posting on here less frequently means more time for me to CLIMB!
Climb on everyone!
Josh
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johnwesely
Aug 18, 2010, 4:11 PM
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dingus wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: Why is good discussion on here so scarce? Is it because our users are too global, lacking any clear connection. Are we not specific enough, as far as discipline and geographic area? What? Josh Its very simple - there are better conversations elsewhere. Like here: supertopo.com DMT
I have never done a big wall and am afraid to post there.
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bandycoot
Aug 18, 2010, 4:16 PM
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dingus wrote: Its very simple - there are better conversations elsewhere. Like here: supertopo.com DMT
Supertopo is a bunch of 50+ year old men acting like 16 year old highschool girls who formed a click. If you're not circle jerking on the historical cookie, you're out. Unless you have breasts that is...
Josh
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billl7
Aug 18, 2010, 4:22 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Why is good discussion on here so scarce? Is it because our users are too global, lacking any clear connection. Are we not specific enough, as far as discipline and geographic area? What?
Most of the folks regarded here as "climbing authorities" seem to lack interpersonal skills. Absolute truth is wielded at the cost of throwing the baby (new climber) out with the bathwater. Richard Goldstone is an exception.
So we tend to end up being right but not very happy.
Me? I'm just an enthusiastic but thin-skinned weekend warrior. Been at it for six years now. Learned a lot through this site, mostly through threads where the "authorities" where scared to death someone else would give out too much information here and get some new person killed.
Bill L
Bill L
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whipper
Aug 18, 2010, 4:26 PM
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Well, I have been baned from the lab....
and the mods have deleted 2 of my topics about it. Why does JT and Curty boy get to say whatever they want, but I get banned and not even an explanation from the Mods.....its become very draconian around here, and I have had enough....out
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