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RMC
Sep 1, 2010, 6:49 PM
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tasters choice on this one.....but here goes.
Which is the best type of biner to use on the webbing of my Black Diamond camalots? Bent gate or straight? Then on that note- if I need to extend the webbing away from the rock- should both biners be the same or quick draw style ( bottom bent & top straight)
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carabiner96
Sep 1, 2010, 6:55 PM
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I've got hotwires on the cams, just because. No reason, really.
I tried to think about what I have on my trad draws, but I honestly can't remember, because the care factor is pretty low. I want to say I have two livewires, wire because they're lighter and I don't want to mess around with a rope and and bolt/gear end.
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redlude97
Sep 1, 2010, 7:03 PM
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neutrinos were obviously made for the camalots so you can't go wrong there. As for extending trad draws it is personal choice, some people like to use tripled draws on their harness clip to the loop which is easier but wastes 1 extra biner, or some like to sling over the shoulder with a single biner. Wiregates all around is what I like
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shrug7
Sep 1, 2010, 7:14 PM
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Whatever you want really.
I use Hotwires to rack my cams. draws are one side Hotwires (rope) and gear/rock side Positron (usually bent gates) on either 24" or 48" slings
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moose_droppings
Sep 1, 2010, 7:16 PM
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Just hanging the cam on it? Depends on what all your going to use the biner for. I use a straight gate.
The personal preferences as to which biner is going to be pretty diverse here and are all valid to each person.
For the sling, I use a keylock straight gate for the gear side and a Superfly wire gate for the rope end.
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pfwein
Sep 1, 2010, 7:29 PM
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RMC wrote: tasters choice on this one.....but here goes. Which is the best type of biner to use on the webbing of my Black Diamond camalots? Bent gate or straight? Then on that note- if I need to extend the webbing away from the rock- should both biners be the same or quick draw style ( bottom bent & top straight)
I like any lightweight wire gate biner, but I especially like ones color coded for the Camalots. I have DMM Spectres and they're great, although not the lightest option. BD makes colored Neutrinos (I have one) that is another good option and I believe somewhat lighter.
The color coding may seem a bit yupped out, but it helps me to grab the right cam. A small advantage, but I like it.
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Rudmin
Sep 1, 2010, 7:30 PM
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I use Nanos
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spikeddem
Sep 1, 2010, 8:06 PM
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OT, but what paperclip should I use for holding papers together?
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rock_fencer
Sep 1, 2010, 8:14 PM
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if you have the cash, go light. Camp nano / BD Oz / Meolius FS Mini all make great racking biners. Over a full rack you can shave some serious ounces. Not a huge difference but anything that will lighten up the pack on long hauls is game.
Edit: Forgot the Trango Superfly
(This post was edited by rock_fencer on Sep 1, 2010, 8:14 PM)
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jakedatc
Sep 1, 2010, 8:18 PM
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i use a mix of Mad rock wiregates and hot wires. they are only for racking so i want cheap and light. I find the nanos, mini's etc to be too freaking small. though i do have a booty Mini ready for my 0 tcu when i get it.
any draw gets clipped to the sling separately, easier for re-racking purposes.
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spikeddem
Sep 1, 2010, 8:23 PM
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shrug7 wrote: spikeddem wrote: OT, but what paperclip should I use for holding papers together? 
That's not real. It doesn't even have a tongue.
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northfacejmb
Sep 1, 2010, 8:50 PM
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When I was making this choice I was lucky enough to be able to get color coded DMM Spectres on sale for the same price as the neutrinos (which I hate).
I couldn't be happier.
Now I wouldn't think twice about buying the spectres full price over anything else. They're just that good.
I have the older spectres, but DMM just came out with the spectre 2's which are very nice as well.
The DMM Phantom is another great choice and is a bit lighter but still clips like a dream. I have a few for some of my doubles.
\
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petsfed
Sep 1, 2010, 9:19 PM
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redlude97 wrote: neutrinos were obviously made for the camalots so you can't go wrong there.
This is news to me. Of course, I've owned neutrinos since the only color you could get was green. Its just that a lot of people used the neutrino as a racking carabiner, which led to the rack pack. Honestly, I can't really disagree with the masses here.
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redlude97
Sep 1, 2010, 9:41 PM
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petsfed wrote: redlude97 wrote: neutrinos were obviously made for the camalots so you can't go wrong there. This is news to me. Of course, I've owned neutrinos since the only color you could get was green. Its just that a lot of people used the neutrino as a racking carabiner, which led to the rack pack. Honestly, I can't really disagree with the masses here.
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cruxstacean
Sep 2, 2010, 3:03 PM
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I suggest you use lockers for increased security. Maybe the Petzl William would be good? Its fairly big so its easier to clip.
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RMC
Sep 2, 2010, 3:33 PM
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thanks allot bro
I have a few madRock oval lockers for those obscure situations where the route traverses. In Germany I had to leave a BD #1 red cam - should have used a sling to extend the draw.
so your recommending a locker on the cam's sling and 1 additional locker on the extension sling as well?
Rich
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MS1
Sep 2, 2010, 3:56 PM
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redlude97 wrote: petsfed wrote: redlude97 wrote: neutrinos were obviously made for the camalots so you can't go wrong there. This is news to me. Of course, I've owned neutrinos since the only color you could get was green. Its just that a lot of people used the neutrino as a racking carabiner, which led to the rack pack. Honestly, I can't really disagree with the masses here. you are right, what I should have said is that BD markets the neutrino as the racking biner for the camalot(and color coded them for that purpose), which is why they are the obvious choice. BTW, for those who are not worried about color matching, the new hot forged hotwire is down to 37g compared to 36g for the neutrino so you don't have to sacrifice weight for a full sized racking biner any more
Good to know. Of course, if you wait a little while, you'll be able to pick up this new sexiness from CAMP:
Full size and 29 grams!
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acorneau
Sep 2, 2010, 4:36 PM
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Not the best thread ever, but I'll play...
I have a mixture of Neutrinos, Nanos and original LiveWires on my cams. If I was buying all new I'd probably get the color-coded Neutrinos.
For slings, I carry six 12" and six 24" BW Titan slings each with a single biner (Nano or Superfly). Also carry a couple 48" slings (2 Nanos or Light D's each) and a few standard quickdraws.
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shoo
Sep 2, 2010, 4:39 PM
Post #20 of 31
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RMC wrote: thanks allot bro I have a few madRock oval lockers for those obscure situations where the route traverses. In Germany I had to leave a BD #1 red cam - should have used a sling to extend the draw. so your recommending a locker on the cam's sling and 1 additional locker on the extension sling as well? Rich
Rich, crux is either joking or an idiot. For racking carabiners, you want smaller, non lockers. The petzl williams locker is huge and heavy. I'm pretty sure I would crack up if I ever some someone rack their cams off of a bunch of those.
You want lightweight since you're going to have a bunch of them (one for every cam, typically). You want small so it doesn't take up a ton of room on your harness or sling, and doesn't get in the way in a crack. Generally speaking, most people prefer wiregates since they are lighter and easy to clip. Some people like to have their carabiners match the color of the cam.
A few good suggestions for more all arounders:
Wild Country Helium: Non-snagging wiregate nose, medium sized, super light, super expensive. Honestly, I don't think it gets much better than this for general trad use. However, you are going to pay for it.
Black Diamond Neutrino: Good all arounder, very cheap. comes in colors if you want them. Nothing amazing about them, but nothing wrong with them either. Everyone carries them too, so they're easy to find.
There are also the ridiculously small and light ones. I think these are all a bit too small for my tastes, but whatever.
Black Diamond Oz
DMM Phantom
Metolius FS mini
CAMP nano
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spikeddem
Sep 2, 2010, 11:11 PM
Post #21 of 31
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MS1 wrote: redlude97 wrote: petsfed wrote: redlude97 wrote: neutrinos were obviously made for the camalots so you can't go wrong there. This is news to me. Of course, I've owned neutrinos since the only color you could get was green. Its just that a lot of people used the neutrino as a racking carabiner, which led to the rack pack. Honestly, I can't really disagree with the masses here. you are right, what I should have said is that BD markets the neutrino as the racking biner for the camalot(and color coded them for that purpose), which is why they are the obvious choice. BTW, for those who are not worried about color matching, the new hot forged hotwire is down to 37g compared to 36g for the neutrino so you don't have to sacrifice weight for a full sized racking biner any more Good to know. Of course, if you wait a little while, you'll be able to pick up this new sexiness from CAMP: Full size and 29 grams!
Thank God. Now I will be good enough to send my sik proj.
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dugl33
Sep 3, 2010, 6:13 AM
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Not the lightest choice but I've used the petzl spirit straight gates for quite a while. The keylock (toothless) gate style means no hang-ups pulling a cam out of the middle of the rack.
I also have some color coded rack pack neutrinos that were given to me as a gift and they work well, too.
For extendo purposes I use up to 10 full length dyneema runners (trad draws) with superfly wiregates, and up to 8 petzl draws, 4 short, 4 medium.
I just leave the racking biner on the cam and clip the runner in to the webbing. (If I need to lighten up for something I'll go more like acorneu's style of long runners with single biners, seperately racked single biners, and perhaps not take the draws.)
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markc
Sep 3, 2010, 3:26 PM
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dugl33 wrote: I just leave the racking biner on the cam and clip the runner in to the webbing. (If I need to lighten up for something I'll go more like acorneu's style of long runners with single biners, seperately racked single biners, and perhaps not take the draws.)
Same here. So, no other cheap bastards want to own up to racking on ovals, eh? I was poor when I started my rack, and I'm too OCD to not switch entirely.
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whipper
Sep 3, 2010, 5:15 PM
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shoo wrote: RMC wrote: thanks allot bro I have a few madRock oval lockers for those obscure situations where the route traverses. In Germany I had to leave a BD #1 red cam - should have used a sling to extend the draw. so your recommending a locker on the cam's sling and 1 additional locker on the extension sling as well? Rich Rich, crux is either joking or an idiot. For racking carabiners, you want smaller, non lockers. The petzl williams locker is huge and heavy. I'm pretty sure I would crack up if I ever some someone rack their cams off of a bunch of those. You want lightweight since you're going to have a bunch of them (one for every cam, typically). You want small so it doesn't take up a ton of room on your harness or sling, and doesn't get in the way in a crack. Generally speaking, most people prefer wiregates since they are lighter and easy to clip. Some people like to have their carabiners match the color of the cam. A few good suggestions for more all arounders: Wild Country Helium: Non-snagging wiregate nose, medium sized, super light, super expensive. Honestly, I don't think it gets much better than this for general trad use. However, you are going to pay for it. Black Diamond Neutrino: Good all arounder, very cheap. comes in colors if you want them. Nothing amazing about them, but nothing wrong with them either. Everyone carries them too, so they're easy to find. There are also the ridiculously small and light ones. I think these are all a bit too small for my tastes, but whatever. Black Diamond Oz DMM Phantom Metolius FS mini CAMP nano
Crux is not an idiot, I carry 2 sets of cams and one of them is racked with an OP Jake locker on each, just in case I need to bail, or if I am going to run it out from the piece. If you use the auto lockers it is super easy and doesnt add that much weight.
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whipper
Sep 3, 2010, 5:15 PM
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shoo wrote: RMC wrote: thanks allot bro I have a few madRock oval lockers for those obscure situations where the route traverses. In Germany I had to leave a BD #1 red cam - should have used a sling to extend the draw. so your recommending a locker on the cam's sling and 1 additional locker on the extension sling as well? Rich Rich, crux is either joking or an idiot. For racking carabiners, you want smaller, non lockers. The petzl williams locker is huge and heavy. I'm pretty sure I would crack up if I ever some someone rack their cams off of a bunch of those. You want lightweight since you're going to have a bunch of them (one for every cam, typically). You want small so it doesn't take up a ton of room on your harness or sling, and doesn't get in the way in a crack. Generally speaking, most people prefer wiregates since they are lighter and easy to clip. Some people like to have their carabiners match the color of the cam. A few good suggestions for more all arounders: Wild Country Helium: Non-snagging wiregate nose, medium sized, super light, super expensive. Honestly, I don't think it gets much better than this for general trad use. However, you are going to pay for it. Black Diamond Neutrino: Good all arounder, very cheap. comes in colors if you want them. Nothing amazing about them, but nothing wrong with them either. Everyone carries them too, so they're easy to find. There are also the ridiculously small and light ones. I think these are all a bit too small for my tastes, but whatever. Black Diamond Oz DMM Phantom Metolius FS mini CAMP nano
Crux is not an idiot, I carry 2 sets of cams and one of them is racked with an OP Jake locker on each, just in case I need to bail, or if I am going to run it out from the piece. If you use the auto lockers it is super easy and doesnt add that much weight.
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